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Biking risk mitigation
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 2009-07-25 12:25 PM |
Champion  10157    Alabama |  Subject: Biking risk mitigationWith nothing else to do but think on my solo ride today I got to thinking about the risks of biking and what we do that increases and/or decreases the inherent risks of biking out on the roads with automobiles. I was thinking about the folks who are so adament about not listening to music while they bike for safety reasons and wondered if they use a bike mirror for 'situational awareness' while out biking? I listen to my iPod when I ride solo but I have a mirror velcro'd to the handlebars to keep track of what is coming up behind me. I ride far to the right so it's not like I do anything differently if someone is coming up from behind me but I just like to know. It's a 'feel good' thing to me. The only time I don't use the mirror is when I race. So here are a few safety things that are probably mostly 'feel good' items: 1. Bright, high-vis biking jersey* 2. Helmet mounted or bar mounted mirror* 3. Rear blinking light* 4. Front light 5. Helmet LED light (front and back)* 6. Stopping/unclipping at all stop signs * Things I use So while I do listen to music when I ride and don't completely stop at all stop signs when there is no trafic, I do employ other risk mitigation. So what other ways do you mitigate biking risks? ~Mike |
| 2009-07-25 6:54 PM in reply to: #2307479 |
Champion 6656  | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation I also listen to my Ipod while riding solo...I only put one headphone in (right ear) so that I can still hear what is going on behind me and have some audio entertainment at the same time! |
| 2009-07-25 7:06 PM in reply to: #2307479 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation This is going to sound really fatalistic, but I don't think any of that stuff matters. The driver who's going to hurt/kill you is the one you failed to see, or the one who fails to see you--and it won't be because you weren't bright/blinky/neon enough--it'll be because they were distracted by something on the road, texting, what have you. I've been riding for 13 years now and never owned a mirror, any neon piece of clothing, etc. I did use lights when riding at night, of course, but the rest of the time going out there and paying attention to the world around me has been my only defense. It's worked so far... |
| 2009-07-25 7:21 PM in reply to: #2307866 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation DrPete - 2009-07-25 7:06 PM This is going to sound really fatalistic, but I don't think any of that stuff matters. The driver who's going to hurt/kill you is the one you failed to see, or the one who fails to see you--and it won't be because you weren't bright/blinky/neon enough--it'll be because they were distracted by something on the road, texting, what have you. I've been riding for 13 years now and never owned a mirror, any neon piece of clothing, etc. I did use lights when riding at night, of course, but the rest of the time going out there and paying attention to the world around me has been my only defense. It's worked so far...
I'm gonna have to agree with you on this! Like I said, those are mostly feel-good things. Last year I got t-boned by a car that did not see me. Here is a pix of me in the ER. Obviosuly she did not fail to see me becuase I was not wearing a bight shirt! ~Mike (Mikes Bike wreck 011.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Mikes Bike wreck 011.jpg (43KB - 0 downloads) |
| 2009-07-26 8:33 AM in reply to: #2307479 |
Expert 793 South Florida | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation I use a mirror, but you can't watch the cars behind you all the time. I mostly use it it try to prevent me from doing something stupid, like making a lane change for a left turn with a car too close. |
| 2009-07-26 8:57 AM in reply to: #2307479 |
| Regular 281 | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation I work often on the side of the road and I am required by the DOT to wear a DOT class 2 vest which is bright yellow with reflector bands. At my work we have a saying about the yellow vests. We wear them so they can find the body. We have giant bucket trucks with strobe lights going off, orange cones set up so people can go around, 3 giant orange warning signs (Utility construction ahead, be prepared to stop, flagman ahead) spaced 250-500ft apart each and often times a person with a Stop/Slow sign. People fail to see those, much less a bicycle. When I ride, I stay right and hope I don't get hit by some teenager txtn her IDK BFF JILL. |
| 2009-07-26 9:13 AM in reply to: #2307479 |
| Extreme Veteran 454 OKC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc... |
| 2009-07-26 9:33 AM in reply to: #2307479 |
Regular 117 Carrollton, TX | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Just yesterday some stupid lady passed me in the middle of a left turn (she went around me on the right hand side), then had to cut me off because the three road lane we were turning on to turned to two lanes right at the intersection (outside lane turned into a gas station). I was pissed. But I agree, it's peoples inability to pay attention and their inability to have a couple seconds of patience that poses the greatest threat in my opinion. |
| 2009-07-26 9:43 AM in reply to: #2308300 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation lrobb - 2009-07-26 9:13 AM Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc...
Ah, you have a good point on your head. :-)
~Mike |
| 2009-07-26 9:55 AM in reply to: #2308300 |
| Regular 281 | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation lrobb - 2009-07-26 10:13 AM Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc... If you feel safe thinking the high viz will keep you safe then go ahead. The firefighters will thank you for making your body easy to find. Problem with the high viz is it gives people a false sense of security which makes things more dangerous. Either people notice something in the road or they don't, color doesn't matter. |
| 2009-07-26 12:55 PM in reply to: #2308333 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation ATLsbr - 2009-07-26 9:55 AM lrobb - 2009-07-26 10:13 AM Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc... If you feel safe thinking the high viz will keep you safe then go ahead. The firefighters will thank you for making your body easy to find. Problem with the high viz is it gives people a false sense of security which makes things more dangerous. Either people notice something in the road or they don't, color doesn't matter.
That's simply not true. There have been numerous studies proving that high vis yellow catches one's attention better than other colors. That's why many emrgency vehicles are going to high vis yellow instead of the traditional red. If you're wearing a black biking shirt, black biking shorts and riding a black bike on a black road, it's not hard to see how you might not be as noticable as someone wearing high vis yellow. The thing about high vis yellow is there is nothing in nature that is that color so it causes the brain to notice when it might not otherwise notice. Statistically white/light colored cars are in less accidents than dark color cars. I don't ride thinkng I'm more visible becuase of the high vis shirt but I will never know how many people's attention was caught out of the corner of thier eye by my high vis shirt. Maybe I'm dislusional but it's my dilusion. High vis yellow biking is a feebee. That is, high vis yellow jersey or red or black or blue? Who cares? I doubt a blue jersey will catch someone's attention but maybe, just maybe the high vis yellow might. So $48 for a blue shirt with zero added safety or $48 for a high vis yellow with MAYBE some safety benefit. Also, it makes me easy to find in race photos! :-) ~Mike |
| 2009-07-26 1:42 PM in reply to: #2308300 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation lrobb - 2009-07-26 10:13 AM Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc... Again, I don't use the high-vis stuff, and nobody has hit me.... Edited by DrPete 2009-07-26 1:42 PM |
| 2009-07-26 2:07 PM in reply to: #2308571 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation DrPete - 2009-07-26 1:42 PM lrobb - 2009-07-26 10:13 AM Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc... Again, I don't use the high-vis stuff, and nobody has hit me....yet.
Fixed that for ya. ;-) |
| 2009-07-26 2:17 PM in reply to: #2307479 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Multiple traffic studies have shown that hi-viz stuff & lights decrease, but certainly do not eliminate, risk of being hit. I generally prefer bright colored jerseys. On sunny days I don't use lights (no advantage), but near dusk/dark I think lights are a must. Rainy conditions too. I generally use a mirror when riding in urban/suburban areas for the same reason we have car mirrors- increased awareness of the surrounding traffic. Does not elimionate blind spots but it helps. HOWEVER- defensive riding is most important. Some traffic seems like its out to get ya no matter what, and situational awareness may prevent a crash. Typical scenario- Just a few days ago I was sweeping for a group ride & several of us had the right lane at a stoplight. Traffic was pretty light but I had noticed a red convertible driving aggressively behind us before it pulled up beside our group at the light. I quietly told a few less experienced riders to watch this (ahem..) driver. Sure enough- when light turned green she swerved quickly over into our lane nearly sideswiping the bike in front of me. No apparent reason for her to do so except to screw with us. If that rider had not come over to his right at my warning he prob would have been hit. Ride hard, but ride safe. |
| 2009-07-26 2:43 PM in reply to: #2308520 |
| Regular 281 | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Rogillio - 2009-07-26 1:55 PM simply not true. There have been numerous studies proving that high vis yellow catches one's attention better than other colors. Well could you do me a favor and email that study to the drivers who come close to hitting me everyday despite I wear an orange shirt and yellow vest and basically look like a walking road barrel? I'm sure if you are in the middle of nowhere and something "bright yellow" pops up, then you will notice it. In a suburban and urban setting where road barrels and yellow are common, people do not notice them. My study is that I notice cars when they get hard on the brakes. About 200ft away you'll notice a car get hard on the brakes because they JUST saw you despite the signs that are 250 or 500ft before us and spaced every 250-500ft apart for a total of 2000ft of buffer between the 1st sign and us. I wear yellow everyday at work and I deal with cars every single day. Some study done by a government hack in a cubicle trying to justify his job is not reality. You want real facts, go talk to the construction workers you see everyday on the side of the road. There isn't a construction worker out there who enjoys wearing yellow vests. |
| 2009-07-26 2:55 PM in reply to: #2307479 |
Veteran 559 | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation I do a lot of solo riding and the way I do it is just to assume that the driver did not see me, I keep to my side of the road, and stick to mostly quite roads. I also ride at times when traffic is quite, early in the morning. I also run my own business and am able to goof off every now again and sneak in a ride when things are quite in the midweek.. Clothes....they do make a difference but I still feel that I am safer by assuming that the driver did not see me. Also..no music, I want to hear as much as I can. |
| 2009-07-26 3:02 PM in reply to: #2308634 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation ATLsbr - 2009-07-26 2:43 PM Rogillio - 2009-07-26 1:55 PM simply not true. There have been numerous studies proving that high vis yellow catches one's attention better than other colors. Well could you do me a favor and email that study to the drivers who come close to hitting me everyday despite I wear an orange shirt and yellow vest and basically look like a walking road barrel? I'm sure if you are in the middle of nowhere and something "bright yellow" pops up, then you will notice it. In a suburban and urban setting where road barrels and yellow are common, people do not notice them. My study is that I notice cars when they get hard on the brakes. About 200ft away you'll notice a car get hard on the brakes because they JUST saw you despite the signs that are 250 or 500ft before us and spaced every 250-500ft apart for a total of 2000ft of buffer between the 1st sign and us. I wear yellow everyday at work and I deal with cars every single day. Some study done by a government hack in a cubicle trying to justify his job is not reality. You want real facts, go talk to the construction workers you see everyday on the side of the road. There isn't a construction worker out there who enjoys wearing yellow vests.
We can all have our own opinions but we can't all have our own facts. Not all studies are done by government hacks....some are actually done by engineers trying to make life safer for everyone. Your logic seems to be 'since yellow vests are not 100% effective, they are worthless'. I submit that if one person out of a thousand happens to see the high vis yellow and that is the one person that was gonna kill you, then it's worth it. I wear a biking jersey for the pockets in the back.....the high vis color is gravy. If you don't think wearing high vis yellow increases visability than don't wear one. I'm not selling jerseys. ~Mike |
| 2009-07-26 3:43 PM in reply to: #2308592 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Rogillio - 2009-07-26 3:07 PM DrPete - 2009-07-26 1:42 PM lrobb - 2009-07-26 10:13 AM Of course... you don't have stats on all those people that didn't hit you because of the high-vis / lights / etc... Again, I don't use the high-vis stuff, and nobody has hit me....yet.
Fixed that for ya. ;-) True enough, and when they do it won't matter what I was wearing... |
| 2009-07-26 3:53 PM in reply to: #2308658 |
| Regular 281 | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Rogillio - 2009-07-26 4:02 PM logic seems to be 'since yellow vests are not 100% effective, they are worthless'. I submit that if one person out of a thousand happens to see the high vis yellow and that is the one person that was gonna kill you, then it's worth it. Even if the yellow only affects one out of a thousand the main problem is the false sense of security the wearer gets. That causes you to forget the 999 other people who don't see it regardless and you think they see it. Instead of being more aware you become more complacent and that is how you get killed. If you want to wear it then fine, but I think the false sense of security has probalby killed more bicyclists (along with construction workers and motorcyclists) than someone not wearing yellow and who is much more aware of their surroundings. |
| 2009-07-26 3:59 PM in reply to: #2308706 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation ATLsbr - 2009-07-26 4:53 PM Even if the yellow only affects one out of a thousand the main problem is the false sense of security the wearer gets. That causes you to forget the 999 other people who don't see it regardless and you think they see it. Instead of being more aware you become more complacent and that is how you get killed. Yeah, that's kinda the point I was trying to make. Helmets are another example--I 100% advocate wearing a helmet at all times, but I can't help but be amazed when a cyclist gets killed by a truck moving at highway speed and someone asks "but was he/she wearing his/her helmet?" It's a laughable question, really. Problem is that helmets have become mandatory in many places and in events, so people make this leap to assuming that helmets are all you need to be safe. |
| 2009-07-26 4:37 PM in reply to: #2308706 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation ATLsbr - 2009-07-26 3:53 PM Rogillio - 2009-07-26 4:02 PM logic seems to be 'since yellow vests are not 100% effective, they are worthless'. I submit that if one person out of a thousand happens to see the high vis yellow and that is the one person that was gonna kill you, then it's worth it. Even if the yellow only affects one out of a thousand the main problem is the false sense of security the wearer gets. That causes you to forget the 999 other people who don't see it regardless and you think they see it. Instead of being more aware you become more complacent and that is how you get killed. If you want to wear it then fine, but I think the false sense of security has probalby killed more bicyclists (along with construction workers and motorcyclists) than someone not wearing yellow and who is much more aware of their surroundings. I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing anyone is going to get a false sense of security, be less aware of traffic and bike recklessly simply becuase they are wearing a high vis yellow jersey! But you are entitled to your opinion.
~Mike
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| 2009-07-26 5:12 PM in reply to: #2307479 |
Master 1848 Canandaigua | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation There is no 100%. You can always be hit by lightning from 10 miles away. Treat every car as if they don't see you and are going to pull in front of you everytime. I kinda get a kick out of the mirrors. Seems to me that they are so small that you will spend more time trying to see something in them then paying attention to the obvious. I make sure to look the driver in the face and he sees me. Wear brighter colors Make sure I advertise my intentions with hand signal and presences on the road. I use a blinking light on the rear but don't rely on it for anything. Sorry an iPod will not only hinder your hearing a vehicle, it will take your mind off the road. Its a distraction like you do you need any more the drivers are distracted enough. |
| 2009-07-26 9:21 PM in reply to: #2307479 |
Extreme Veteran 1112 Las Vegas | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation Yahooooo, the state of Nevada just lowered the speed limit on one of our major bike riding roads, (Red Rock), from 60 down to 50. Now I can get run down 10 miles and hour slower. Oh well, as the wise old Chinese Scholar, (the Ancient), on the old TV show Kung Fu said, "today is a good day to die" |
| 2009-07-27 7:36 AM in reply to: #2308750 |
| Extreme Veteran 454 OKC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation >>I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing anyone is going to get a false sense of security probably just the opposite, if you're going through the trouble of equipping yourself with hi-viz gear, etc... |
| 2009-07-27 7:38 AM in reply to: #2308603 |
| Extreme Veteran 454 OKC | Subject: RE: Biking risk mitigation >>Multiple traffic studies have shown that hi-viz stuff & lights decrease, but certainly do not eliminate, risk of being hit. I'm not going to look up studies, but will say my wife is a traffic engineer and I certainly hear about them all the time.  |
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