Jonathan22's mentor group - CLOSED

Hey Jonathan, my name is Chris.  Would like to join your group if you have the room. 

I have had the itch to get into triathlons for the past year.  I just did not know where to start. My strongest background would be in cycling, followed by running then swimming.  I am single, finishing school up and working. I really am looking for advice to get my training off the ground.  This Monday will be the start of my training for my first event. I have roughly 15 weeks if i counted correctly to the first race.  What would you recommend as a good starting plan?  I plan to train 6 days a week atleast.  My tentative race schedule is as follows:

• 5/3 – New Jersey Devilman Triathlon (Sprint)
• 6/6 – Jersey Genesis Triathlon
• 7/26 – New Jersey State Triathlon
• 9/20 – Savageman Triathlon

I also would like to hear your opinion on what is a good heart rate monitor to purchase?  Any and all pointers to get me started would be appreciated and I look forward to reaching my goals of competing in triathlons.

Welcome Chad.  I worked in The Ham for about a year a few years ago.  And I am familure with those races.  

Starting now, I think you will do awesome at Augusta.  Personally, I would drop Tugaloo; it seems really close to Augusta for my tastes.  It won't kill you to do that race; just be careful it doensn't take too much out of you before your first HIM. 

I understand running being your weakest leg.  It is mine too.  Even though I have a running background, I typically give up slots from the swim to the bike to the run.  This is year 3 in triathlon for me so I'm hoping to change that this year.

Biggest thing is to either 1) hire a coach if you can afford one (there are some expensive AND inexpensive options; or 2) find a plan (there are many good ones here on BT) and stick to it.  I used some of the BT plans the first year to do 2 sprints and 2 olys and I did fine.  I used a coach for last year and will be using a coach for this next year. 

You said you had lots of questions: ask away.  I'm happy to answer any question you have to the best of my ability.

I think you might end up mentoring me a little too.  I am a senior manager at an Big 4 accounting firm.  Sometimes (like now) my travel schedule is brutal and I am consentatly trying to figure out how to balance work and the rest of life.  I'll be interested to hear how you find this balance and what things you might advise me on.

Chris,

I have plenty of room.  I'm very happy for you to join.

First advice is either
1) hire a coach if you can afford it.  I'm a huge believer in hiring a coach to speed up results if it makes sense for you even if you are just starting out. There are some expensive options (like pro coaches), some inexpensive options (my coach at tripower.org) and some inbetween (I am friends with folks at The Sport Factory and Endurance Concepts - 2 different coaching outfits).  Ultimately it is a personal choice to hire a coach or not.

2) Get a plan.  There are some great plans on BT as well as on training peaks.  There are also some books like Training Plans for Multisport Atheletes and BeIRONFit (check out this list: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=triathlon&x=0&y=0).

As you investigate plans or already have one, let me know which one and I'm happy to give you my thoughts.

Another thought I have is that you should decide which is your A race for the season.  Pick one and focus all your energy on knocking that one out of the park.  Also, you didn't list the distances of those races and several have half or Oly options.  Which distances are you thinking about?  

Thanks for getting back to me.  Looking forward to an exciting year.  As much as I would like to have a coach, I am leaning more towards picking a plan.  Nothing is set in stone yet, but I would like to have my mind made up to start Monday.  I have roughly 15 weeks till the first event, which is a sprint.  My 4 races I have interest in have the following distances, Sprint/ Sprint/ Olympic/(in between these events I am riding in the 100 mile LiveStrong Challenge in Philly)/ International.  I would like to throw another one in there as well.  This brings up few questions. 

1)    Is that a good build up of distances for a beginner to tackle?

2)    Since I am looking to do an Olympic, should I start with an Olympic training program right out of the gate or stick to a sprint plan? (The shortest Olympic Program is 16 weeks, so I would have to modify it due to my first event being 15 weeks away)  Let me know what you think and I will then go a pick a plan and discuss with you.

3)    Do you use a HRM?  If so what have you found to be the best for a multi sport application?  I am a big fan of buying right the first time, so trying to get more info on HRM’s.

I am in the middle of reading Joe Friel’s training bible.  Trying to soak in as much as possible.  As far as which race do I plan to focus on, I am not sure.  I would probably lean towards one of the last races.  Thanks again for your help.

Chris,

1. That is exactly the distances I did in my first year.  You will do great.

2.  Specifically, what is your athletic background?  You said cycling, running and swimming but could you elaborate?  If you are starting from zero endurance base, it is probably best to start with a sprint plan.  Then you could do the Sprint to Oly bridge plan from this sight to get ready for New Jersey State Triathlon.

If on the other hand you have some athletic fitness, it would be fine to do the Oly plan.  I would just ensure that the Oly plan ends with your Oly. But then you will need to figure out what plan to follow between now and then.  You need to be a little careful following an Oly plan to do a sprint thinking that doing more volume will make you faster still.  Instead of using that approach, I would start with the intermediate sprint plan and then use the bridge plan.

A good way to solve this question would be to upgrade to gold membership where you get a chance to ask one of the coaches on this sight.  It's a very cheap way to get some quality advice.  

3. Garmin Forerunner 305.  That is the gold standard of training devices IMHO.  

Hey Jonathon –

Good to hear about the distances.  As far as my athletic background, I have played ice hockey and baseball up until about 4 years ago.  Continue to play men’s league Ice Hockey, but that is not every week.  From there I moved into running for fitness.  Only competed in a handful of 10k’s and a bunch of 5k’s.  Then I got shin splints 2 years ago and had to take a break from running.  That gave me the opening to jump into cycling as I had always had an itch to do so.  I have been cycling for the past 2 years, with last year being the best year.  I did the MS150 City to the Shore 2 day ride ( I did the extra loop the first day to push my miles to 175.) and also did the 70 mile LiveStrong event.  Swimming on the other hand is my least experienced.  I have only been swimming the past year recreational to give a break from running.  I do weight train as well 3-4 times a week. 

I am thinking I will use the NJ Triathlon as the A race.  That gives me roughly 24+ weeks to train for that.  The 2 sprints to start off I can use to gain experience. 

I was considering upgrading my plan as well to get a developed plan.  Out of curiosity, I am assuming that is a cheaper route then maybe going with your coach on tripower?  I couldn’t find a price on tripowers website to compare. 

So the Garmin Forerunner 305 is the way to go eh?  I have seen it for $160 so that is not bank breaking.  Do you use the cadence sensing in training?

Thanks,

Chris

Chris,

It sounds like you have plenty of background to do the intermediate plan here on BT.  

I think using the Oly as your A race is a great idea.  

My coaches website is tripower.org.  I am certainly not pushing that route; it's just one option.  He is $85/month which is much cheaper than most coaches.  The BT gold program is $85 for 6 months (which is $14 per month).  The only difference between the silver program here and the gold program is that you get access to the D3 mulisports coaches.  I did this my first year in triathlon and it worked out well.  

You fill out an athlete questionarre and the coaches will answer your questions online.  I think it would be a great option in getting their advice on which programs to piece together to get you through your B races and then to your A race.  They are very helpful in this regard.  

A few words of caution though: They won't custom design you a program (they will default to the programs here on BT).  I have found the programs here on BT to be very, very good.  They tend to lean to more bike time and a little less running time with the theory being that bike miles are a safer way to build fitness.   Personally, I have found that I need more running miles than what the plans call for.  

Finally, yes, I use the cadence sensor with my Forerunner 305.  

Great questions Chad.  

First I want to make sure that everyone understands that although I mentioned having a coach it is purely a matter of choice and convienence on my part.  You can and most do, this sport by self-coaching.  Nothing, nada, zero wrong with that approach.  Just want to make sure you guys understand that I'm not coming off as a "get a coach or go home" mentality (although, you will find some here on BT that are that way).  The main thing when training is to get a plan and stick to it.

Now, to your question (and I'm going to make my answer a little long just for educational purposes):

To do the sport of triathlon, you only need goggles, a bike (any will do) and some shoes (not even running shoes).  

From here, the first upgrade I'd recommend is to get properly fitting running shoes (which is done in your case).  Second would be to think about upgrading to a road bike if you were riding a mountain bike (I know you are not but if you were).  If that's not an option than at least get some skinny street tires if you were riding a mountain bike.

A properly fitting road bike will do wonders for your enjoyment on long rides.  I bought my wifes bike online and the difference between the way I set her up initially and my bike fit guy set her up the next week was night and day. 

From these two basic things (shoes and bike), the next place to go really depends on your goals and which races you are choosing.  Here are some general thoughts:

Wesuits - can be rented, purchased for pretty cheap on ebay or you can choose races that you don't need one.  I raced my first season without a wetsuit.  Only one race would have been cold enough to warrent one but then again it was only a sprint and I was unsure of my ability to get it off quickly at the time.

HR monitor - probably the next best thing to get after a bike upgrade and shoe upgrade (per above).  For sprint races, they are not necessarily needed but as you step up to the Oly distance pacing and nutrition become a little important.  I'd say that if you are more analytical than a HR would be great as it requires a little bit of a math based disposition.  If one the other hand you are more of an artist, then RPE (Rate of Precevied Excertion - how you feel) is probably a better choice.  

There are downsides to HR training and that is that your HR is tired to things like tiredness and hydration.  If you are super tired or super dehydrated, your HR may be off.  It's still a good way to train but requires you to learn what the numbers mean.  Many people do just fine with training based on 2 definitions: hard and easy.

Aerobars - Once your bike is fitted, if you can fit aerobars on to it, you will gain around 2 MPH instantly.  The BIG caveat is that sometimes aerobars on road bikes, while putting you in an aerodynamic position, will make things worse (slower) since it might mean you are generating less power (force on the pedals).  This happens if you are too stretched out (hips too far from handlebars).  Just make sure your bike shop knows something about aerobar fit (i.e. they fit triathletes) and get them to adjust your fit accordingly (usually, moving your seat forward a bit and maybe a shorter stem on your handlebars).

Swim lessons are great as swim is very technic oriented but as a practical matter, if you can swim a mile in a pool non-stop then you will do fine for sprints and olys in your first year.  BT has some pretty good resources for swim drills in the articles section.  

For your first year (outside of purchasing clothing and nutrition) that's really all you need. 

Now, what has impacted MY training and racing the most?  Difficult to answer.  I had the resources when I first started to get a tri bike straight away.  That's probably #1.  #2 is probably volume in all 3 sports.  I did sprints and olys in my first year and did 2 HIM and an IM (in addition to sprints and olys) in my second year.  Just the volume alone did wonders for my endurance and speed.  Coaching is probably #3.  I can't say all the toys have had a major impact but they have kept me honest in a way.  For example, having a power meters helps to know that I was able to do just the right workout that I was supposed to do.  

Outside of that, I probably learned just as much from the mistakes I made over the last 2 years that anything else.  For example, last spring for no reason, I adjusted my road bike seat hight higher thinking I would get more power and be faster.  It hurt my knee and I was off my bike for over a week.  BAD IDEA.  After my first HIM, I adjusted my tri bike to get more aggresive.  Again, BAD IDEA.  My bike fit guy took pity on me and readjusted me for free.  Doing a 20 mile run when my plan called for a 16 mile run.  BAD IDEA.  You get the picture.  

Hacksaw, 

Yes, the group is still open and you are more than welcome to join.  Please tell us your race schedule and any initial questions you might have.

J22

Name: Hacksaw (Tim)

Age: 38

Dimensions: 6’-0” / 230 lbs and dropping

Habitat: Peachtree City, GA

Significant Others: 1 wife (13 years), 3 kids (elementary and younger)

History:
Long time strength training and bodybuilder so not much (none really) of an endurance sport background. Enjoyed recreational biking and running and discovered triathlon last year. I participated in my first and only triathlon in May 2008 at the Peachtree City Olympic triathlon. Been injured ever since (cannot run due to periostitis of tibias, learned my lesson on that).

2009 Goals:
- Build up a running base and adhere to the 10% rule. Currently in PT for shins. Hopefully its just a matter of me stretching and I’ll be running soon.
- Learn the front crawl. Start swim lessons tonight! Thought I was a swimmer (done scuba, snorkeling, etc) but found out in triathlon I’m not. Ended up backstroking the 1800m swim.
- Drop to hopefully 200lbs or less. Gonna be hard to sacrifice a some of the muscle mass I’ve spent the last almost 2 decades building.
- Actually start documenting my training. Have always just kept it in my head but of course there’s no way to critique and adjust based on that.
- Adopt a real training plan. Have just been winging it and going as hard as I can all the time. With a long range goal of eventually doing a full IM, don’t think I could get there this way.
- Participate in tri races based on recovery from running. Will at least do the PTC Sprint tri even if I have to walk it (I seriously will be concerned if I can’t run a 5K by then though).

Current Training:
Mon = Spin Class (intervals), 5AM, 1 - 1.5 hours
Tue = Strength Training (Upper Body), 5AM, 1 - 1.5 hours
Wed = Spin Class (HR zones), 5AM - 1.5 - 2 hours
Thur = Strength Training (Lower Body + Abs), 5AM, 1 - 1.5 hours
Fri = LSD cardio (elliptical or arc trainer), 5AM, 1 hour
Sat = rest
Sun = long bike ride (usually group ride with roadies), 2+ hours
Right now will also be fitting in swim lessons on Tue eve (and probably a Thur practice too). Once I am cleared for running, I may replace a spin with a run and will likely add runs after strength training. Morning seems to be the only time I can control (and still have family time in the eve) so I try to get in my training then. This necessitates spin classes as a replacement for seat time (at least until the days start getting longer again).

Race Schedule:
- March 14: Wheels of Fire Century Cycle Tour at Callaway Gardens, GA
- May 16: Peachtree City Olympic Tri (my inaugural race, this is a maybe based on legs)
- Aug 22: PTC Sprint Tri (definitely on, planning on dragging the misses into this one)
- Whatever else hits me based on running recover and assuming I can learn real swimming.

Questions:

Heart Rate Zones: I’m using the 200-age formula right now to estimate HR zones. I intend on doing an LT test soon on the bike to get a little more accurate. I find in training that my HR is much higher than this formula would predict. The formula says my anaerobic threshold (80% of HR max) would be about 145. I routine run in the low 160s on bike (and in spin classes) and can maintain that for a long, long time. By working backwards, this would then say my HR max would be around 200. Does this seem reasonable?
Sweating: I know this is a weird one but dear god, I literally sweat what seems like a gallon during a spin class in an hour. I watch my diet (salt intake, etc.) and don’t seem to suffer any side effects (i.e. cramping) from such excessive sweating but wondering if anyone else suffers (if you could call it that) from this and if there is a solution. Maybe God just set my thermostat up too high?

Base training: My motto for strength training has always been to go to failure. Have the sneaking suspicion that’s not so good for endurance training. In my ad-hoc training so far, I’ve always gone out hard in training, granted I pace myself to go whatever distance I intend but I’ll adjust so that by the time I’m home, I’m exhausted. Never really give myself a “light” day. Is this really counterproductive?

Still room for me?

I haven't put a training log together, but I'm doing that today.

Here's me:

I played two years of organized sports when I was 7-8, but the rest of my life I just ran and played. I did the mile swim in Boy Scouts when I was 14, but haven't really done much swimming in the last 10 years or so. I used to have a high metabolism, but alas, no more. I'm 39 years old, 5'8" and 176 lbs. I should be in the 150's with my lean frame.

My job is mostly at a desk or talking with people. I'm a student pastor, so my schedule is kind of set, but hectic and a little seasonal, which makes consistent training tough to do alone.

This past summer we took our 6yo daughter to her first beach and built sandcastles and played in the sand and waves. When I saw the pictures, at first I thought my wife had gone to the beach with my dad, then I realized it was me. I was ashamed. Then and there I decided to do something about it. We joined the Y and I soon found out they had a duathlon. Since I didn't have a bike, I knew I could do the du, but found out they didn't do it anymore, so I just upgraded to a tri. At first my wife laughed, then she watched me begin to work out and has been very supportive since then. I just bought a bike last week and went for my first ride this morning.

Here's why I want a mentor: I'm doing this alone and my life is kind of crazy between work and family and trying to train. When I read about the opportunity for a mentor, I was excited. Then I saw yours, J22, and saw that you seem to have similar circumstances in your life: fluctuating weight, married, kids, priority, goal for first tri: weight loss.

So, if there's room, I'd like to join. Could you help me out?

My goal for right now is the local Smithfield Sprint Tri, April 4. It's a pool swim (328 yds), 10mi bike, 3.11 mi run. I've been doing some running, weightlifting, stationary bike, a little swimming (not near enough), and this morning started my bike. I want to set a good training schedule for this tri so I don't collapse or look like an idiot.

What do you say? Help a brother out?

I personally favor morning workouts. 

1. you might be tired but you are as fresh as you are going to get for the day. 
   
2. it sets the tone for the rest of day
3. since you generally working in the AM after being calorie deficient from sleeping, it pushes the body into a more fat burning mode.  I don't have scientific evidence of this; just gut feeling so I go with it.

Welcome Tim. 

I hope the shins get recovered.  How frustrating.

I think getting a training plan and sticking with it will go a long way towards helping you meet more than a few of your goals.  Check out the plans here on BT.  They do a great job of getting you ready and are very reasonable when it comes to run volume (e.g. build slowly).

There are a few tri races you could sign up for (Tanner Sprint comes to mind).  I know it would not meet your expectations but it's a sprint and you could swim, bike, walk.  No shame in that if it gets you more experience and keeps you healthy.  Just an idea.   I like to race once per month but that's just me.

Now to your questions:

First, and I won't beat around the bush, but 220 minus your age is crap.  You might as well pick any number between 120 and 200 and go with that.  LT test is the way to go.  There are a couple of ways to get there:

Read this: http://www.d3multisport.com/blog/index.php/220-age-misconceptions-a... Ricci and D3 wrote the training plans here on BT so if you determined your zones based on the above, they would work for the BT plans.

The other way to measure LT that gets you the same numbers are recording your HR for a 5k (and taking 95% of that number) or recording your HR for a 10k.  Personally, I always use race data as it is more accurate in my belief.  For the bike, I will either use a 10 mile time trial or the bike leg of a sprint tri.  For example, if you look at my race schedule, I have 3-5 options to test my run LT (based on the 5Ks and 10Ks I will sign up for) and 3 options to test my bike LT (1 time trial and 2 sprints).  

 Regarding sweating, I have 2 thoughts for you:

1. There are sweat tests you can do to determine your sweat rate.  Typically, they involve weighing yourself, then running or cycling for 1 hour, then weighing yourself again.  You'll need to recording the outside temp and humidity and then find a way to corrolate your sweat loss rate to temp/humidity.  I have never done this test as I have just experiemented with what I thought would work.   I have found for me that about a bottle per hour is about right during the summer to get my good on fluid replacement.
   
2. Sodium and electrolyte replacement is more art than science. No two people are alike and you will have to experiement with what works.   

Having said those two points, don't overthink it for the shorter races.  When you get to HIM and IM distances, they started to become important.

Regarding base training: get a plan based on HR, calculate your zones and stick with the plan.  Going all out all the time is a recipie for disaster.  You WILL (not might, WILL) get burned out.  You chance for injury will be very, very high.  You could try to figure it out on your own but honestly, just get a plan. 

Great questions; keep them coming.

astafford,

Definitly room for you.  I think you will do great.  

Are there specific questions you have?  

Guys,

There are not rules as to how big a mentor group can be.  The suggestion from the moderator is to keep it managable; the last  group I had I shut it down right at 5 folks. 

For this group since we started a little later in the process, I'm going to keep it open for others to join, so long as no one objects.

J22

No questions yet. If I can find my swimsuit I'd like to be in the pool tomorrow morning. If not, I'll just run and maybe ride.

I'll let you know tomorrow.

Thanks for letting me in!

Hey Jonathan,

 My name's Ian and currently go to the University of Missouri and train at the rec there.  I have always been athletic and its been one of my deep desires to compete eventually at Kona. I decided this is the year I need to start training if that's going to ever happen.  I come from a background of competitive fencing and weightlifting.  I have been predominately focused on weights for last few years and thus have lost most of my endurance.  I'm not very experienced at cycling, swimming, or running.  However, I have done long distances of all in the past, just not together or in awhile.  I'm running a 5k in a couple of weeks. And then hopefully just training a lot and can't decide if I want to do a couple of sprints this summer or just do one and try to be as competitive as possible in it.  I am very dedicated and am open to all suggestions and advice as far as a training plan goes.  I purchased a Felt S32 bike and a trainer and have been doing about 30min every couple of days on it this past month.  Because of lifting I have put on some extra muscle that I think will only hinder me in triathlons so I'm currently working on losing 10lbs as well.  Thanks and let me know if you can mentor me as well as the others.