General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Race swimming and running help Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-09-22 7:04 AM

User image

Expert
1158
10001002525
Ocala, Florida
Subject: Race swimming and running help

Ok gang, here's the deal.   I finished my first Oly yesterday with my swimming and running being my worse events.   I trained hard and felt as if i was ready, but my splits for my swimming and running doesn't have alot to be desired.

First, with my swimming.   Last week i swam a mile in the pool in 32:53.   I really thought my swimming was going to be my best event and was thinking i might be able to get somewhere in the 31 or 32 minute split yesterday.   However, i run to the beach and my wife tells me my time was 41 minutes!!!   I was shocked and discouraged.   I was also a bit surprised because i caught a couple people from precious waves and numerous from my own wave.  Now, good news is that i believe i know where my problems are at.  

To start, i felt comfortable in the water with no anxiety....i love swimming open water.   When i got out of the water i was refreshed and felt great....so i didn't cook myself.   What i did do was swim all over the place and i had to constantly look up to redirect myself.    Looking back, i was looking up and breaking my stroke to get on course more than i was swimming.   I know this played a huge factor in my really slow split.   Also, it was my first swim in a large group of competitors (my wave had 68 swimers).   I should have started more in the back and to the side, but i got over confident and started more of the middle and got kicked around.   That played a small part too i think.  

However, i need advice on how to practice swimming more controlled and not zig zagging as i was doing.   Having to look up and sight constantly probably lost me nearly 10 minutes in time.    Is there something i can do to help improve that?

Now for my running.   Before the race, my previous long run was 8 miles i did at a 9:15 pace.  I did a couple bricks, but not enough (i'll do more from here on out).My split yesterday for the run was 1:06.   The run started great, did the first 5k in 28 minutes.  However, i got to mile 4 and literally hit a wall.   My pace dropped a couple minutes slower and i had to take a couple walk breaks.   The last mile and a half was pure torture for me.   My legs were just shot.   Funny thing is that my legs felt great initially after the bike.  They just broke at mile 4. 

So i'm wondering if just increasing my mileage is the way to improve my race running or should i be doing other type of training runs such as bricks.  How many miles for training should i do when training for an Oly?   Should i do interval training or bricks or what.   If i could just do the whole 10k like i did the first 5k yesterday, i would be very pleased.   Is there something in my training i need to change other than long runs?   How many miles should a long run entail when training for an Oly?

Sorry such a long post.   Got alot of things i want to work on and need some direction from those who have been there   I appreciate all the comments and advice.



Edited by xmann1102 2008-09-22 7:07 AM


2008-09-22 7:39 AM
in reply to: #1687545

New user
27
25
North Austin
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help

You're overanalyzing this a bit.  I just think you need to do more running, and practice more competitive swimming....  When you practice long swims in ow you will naturally pick up some tricks to keep track of where you are at in the lake.

 Your first oly sounds similar to my first attempt, give or take a few minutes.

 not real deep advice, just keep training and practicing ows and you will see yourself get better.

2008-09-22 7:42 AM
in reply to: #1687545

New user
27
25
North Austin
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help
For the running, I'd recommend weekly miles north of 20.  Of course, the more the better but 20 should get the job done.  I personaly enjoy doing a brick workout once every couple of weeks, it is more than enough in my opinion to get you ready for a race.
2008-09-22 8:30 AM
in reply to: #1687545

User image

Elite
2793
2000500100100252525
Denver
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help
What's your breathing pattern on the swim like? I find that for OWS, if I breathe bi-laterally (alternate sides), I swim in an arrow-straight line. At my last tri, I didn't have to re-adjust one time, just kept going. Maybe this will make a difference if you don't already do this. Sorry, can't help on the run, I just kind of plod along...
2008-09-22 8:39 AM
in reply to: #1687545

User image

Expert
1158
10001002525
Ocala, Florida
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help
ya i've been breathing on just one side.   never thought about the bi-breathing helping to keep you straight.
2008-09-22 9:19 AM
in reply to: #1687718

Elite
3650
200010005001002525
Laurium, MI
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help

Swimming:  You will get better with practice.  You mention you are comfortable in OW...Do you swim OW a lot?  Do you tend to follow shore lines or site ahead?  I really haven't found a way to get better at swimming straight in OW except for swimming straight in open water.  Do it enough and you get better at it.

 

Running:  There are two elements here: Running and cycling.

Without seeing your current training, it's hard to suggest anything, but the generic advice is run more and ride more.   Building up to running 5 days (or more) a week and mileage north of 20 will help out a lot, but even then, any weakness on the bike will kill your run (especially at the end).



2008-09-22 10:16 AM
in reply to: #1687812

User image

Master
1609
1000500100
Gold Coast Australia.
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help
vortmax - 2008-09-22 9:19 AM

Swimming:  You will get better with practice.  You mention you are comfortable in OW...Do you swim OW a lot?  Do you tend to follow shore lines or site ahead?  I really haven't found a way to get better at swimming straight in OW except for swimming straight in open water.  Do it enough and you get better at it.

 

Running:  There are two elements here: Running and cycling.

Without seeing your current training, it's hard to suggest anything, but the generic advice is run more and ride more.   Building up to running 5 days (or more) a week and mileage north of 20 will help out a lot, but even then, any weakness on the bike will kill your run (especially at the end).

x2 + my $0.02:

Don't beat yourself over the swim so much. If you can swim a mile in 32 min in the pool, you can usually swim a mile in an OWS in less time. Maybe in this particular case the distance was not measured correctly (they usually are not), maybe there was some current, maybe swim split included some running to the transition, maybe there were other issues that will go away as you practice OWS more and do other races.

Since you seem to be happy with your bike split, it makes me think that you perhaps pushed on the bike too much and that affected your run. Most common mistake. Hard to know exactly the proper pace on the bike since your HR is naturally higher due to excitement and adrenaline makes you not feel the fatigue. Solution: ride more at faster pace during training and take it easier on the bike during the race, then the bike won't affect your run.

 

2008-09-22 11:07 AM
in reply to: #1687691

User image

Master
1887
1000500100100100252525
Loveland, Ohio
Subject: RE: Race swimming and running help

wavedog - 2008-09-22 9:30 AM What's your breathing pattern on the swim like? I find that for OWS, if I breathe bi-laterally (alternate sides), I swim in an arrow-straight line. At my last tri, I didn't have to re-adjust one time, just kept going. Maybe this will make a difference if you don't already do this. Sorry, can't help on the run, I just kind of plod along...

x2 on the bilateral breathing, xmann.  I am sooo not an expert and just finished my last/second tri coming in dead last on the swim.  I don't have much authority, IOW.

But, one of the few things that did go right and was pleasantly surprising to me, was how straight I was swimming.  I totally attribute it to the bilateral breathing.  Every time I'd sight, I'd see that I was on course so I didn't need to do it as much.  So, even as a bad swimmer, bilateral breathing made me better in that regard.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Race swimming and running help Rss Feed