General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Marathon after a HIM Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-08-28 11:36 AM

Expert
936
50010010010010025
Salisbury
Subject: Marathon after a HIM

I know this type of question has been asked before but I'm wondering....

Would you consider a half marathon further than 13 miles towards your marathon plan?

My delema is I'm going to be doing a HIM, recovering for a week, and then starting into my marathon plan(Higdon Novice#2). The furthest I've run for the HIM is 13 miles. However, I've run a lot over 10 miles and was putting in a lot more miles earlier in the year training for IMAZ.

 So, my plan is about an easy 6-8(ish) miler the 1st weekend, 11 miler the next weekend, then a 17 miler(week 10).

Does that sound reasonable?  I haven't signed up for the marathon yet and didn't plan on it until after week 11 to make sure I feel like I'll be able to meet my goals.



2008-08-28 11:57 AM
in reply to: #1634897

User image

Master
2638
200050010025
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM

I am in the same boat as you are.  My HIM race is Sept 28 (SC HIM) and my marathon is Dec 6 (Kiawah Island). 

I'm planning to get my long runs as long as I can before the HIM taper starts (15-17 miles) and then start back as you said (6-8 miles the first weekend after SC, then jump back into increasing mileages). 

My answer to your question is no.  I would not count the HIM as a long run (longer than it is) and make the jump from 13 miles to 17 miles without doing more intervening distances. 

Your body may be different and able to take the pounding, but I think the purpose of the long run is not as much your cardio (because if you've done a 6+ hour HIM race, you already know your cardio is there) as your legs/body taking the beating.  So, you won't have the base miles on your feet/legs/knees/back to jump to 17 even if your cardio is beyond that.

2008-08-28 3:56 PM
in reply to: #1634897

Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM

I have my HIM on 9/6 and a marathon on 11/15, so there is some overlap in training for me.  The Higdon plan didn't really work out for my schedule, so I went with another plan.  You didn't specify how much time you have between the two races, though, so maybe something like this won't apply to you, but the long run build on my plan looks like this (for weeks 3-11). 
10M
12M
10M 
14M (HIM is today, so will be doing 13.1M)
10-12M
16M
10-12M
18M
10-12M
20M
I should probably mention that the midweek runs are a bit longer than the Higdon plan, but you get the idea.

2008-08-28 5:54 PM
in reply to: #1634897

Expert
936
50010010010010025
Salisbury
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM
I'm thinking I'll be prepared to stop at 16 instead of 17 if need be on that week.   
2008-08-28 6:07 PM
in reply to: #1634897

User image

Expert
910
500100100100100
North Metro ATL
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM

I would yes but I have been running more than 13 miles for my long run since July. I would think of the HIM as a 3-4 hour run effort.

What is your weekly running mpw? I loosely follow the 10% rule in regards to increasing the long run--not necessarily weekly mileage. For example I maintained 40mpw over the summer. 4 miles is 10% of 40 mpw. So, in July I did a 13 mile run and the then next week I did a 17 mile long run and then following a 21 mile long run. I am currently running between 40-50+ mpw.

I am also training for a HIM and have been switching back and forth weeks: one week 21 miler for the long week, cut back week with a 16 miler and then a 21 and then 16 and so on.

I am not sure on my recovery from the HIM but my plan is a 23 miler 2 or 3 weeks following and to continue on with the marathon my focus.

2008-08-28 7:38 PM
in reply to: #1634897

Expert
936
50010010010010025
Salisbury
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM

Hmm..looking at my weekly mileage it doesn't look good. I'm tapering now but was doing 22-26 per week. 1 speed and 1 hill day so 2 days of that week were hard but only 6ish miles. Even at 16 miles that'd still jump me to 32. Although, I wouldn't be doing nearly the bike mileage I am now.

Also, I wouldn't be doing any runs longer than 20 miles training for the marathon.



Edited by Rencor 2008-08-28 7:41 PM


2008-08-29 5:39 AM
in reply to: #1634897

User image

Expert
910
500100100100100
North Metro ATL
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM

Is this your first marathon?

If it matters I ran my first peaking at 42 mpw and most weeks were around 35 mpw. I also only trained for 9 weeks. But I did have a base of 30 mpw. And I did put in the long runs. I personally aim for 5 long runs of 20 miles or more before each marathon.

You don't have to do a run longer than 20 miles. Many people don't. But for me 20 miles isn't that hard but those 6 miles after 20 are infinitely more difficult. It helps me mentally and physically to be at 23 miles in a marathon and be able to say "Oh, I can run a 5k". Little harder to say at 20 miles " I can run a 10k." If you've hit the wall were talking about another hour. That mentally kills me. 3 miles? I say com'on you can at least do 10 minute miles and be  done in a half hour. Much easier to deal with. But that is just me. I am very soft mentally.

I would reccomend upping your weekly mileage some. I also know many successful marathoners who preform quite well with 30mpw with lots of cross training with the bike and cross trainer.

If you ask a true marathoner they are going to tout 55+ mpw and an 16 week training cycle and little to no xtraining. I on the otherhand think you can get aways with less miles if you are still putting the hours in each week even if a large quanity of it is cross training. Certainly running more will help you be a faster, stronger runner but it isn't the only way to get there.

You are going to have to find what works for you but I would definitely put the time in on your feet and you will have a much better marathon. I also think that after a HIM (though I haven't done one yet) the marathon will seem easier. It should be less time at the very least.

2008-08-29 9:30 AM
in reply to: #1634897

User image

Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM
First of all a HIM is more of a ``workout'' than just a 13-miler. That seems pretty obvious. Your training plan seems reasonable. I think you need to decide whether you really want to do the marathon or not. If you do, train, and train hard and you'll be fine.

I have my last HIM of the season on Sept. 6 and my hometown marathon, which I really want to do, is on Sept. 28, and then the Chicago Marathon is on Oct. 12, so I figured I'd just do them. If it starts to hurt during any race, I'll just slow down.
2008-08-29 11:15 AM
in reply to: #1634897

Expert
936
50010010010010025
Salisbury
Subject: RE: Marathon after a HIM

This is my first stand along marathon. I did a marathon in IMAZ back in April but I walked a lot. Legs felt pretty good but stomach wasn't so good.  

With the marathon plan I'll have a max miles of about 40 before taper. At least if I "over train" trying to ramp up I'll have the winter to recover.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Marathon after a HIM Rss Feed