Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

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2008-08-05 10:05 PM

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Master
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Fenton, MI
Subject: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

SO, tonight I was installing my SLK-Light crankset.  Here is mistake number one.  I dryfit the left arm onto the splines that pass through the BB, and it didn't seat all the way.  I should have just boxed it up and sent it back right there, but I didn't.  I figured there was a burr on the metal and I could work through it.

I installed the BB to spec, installed the drive side rings and arm, then the proper spacers.  BTW, I lubed everything up until this point.

I put the left side on, and figured I could just cinch it on with the retention nut.  I tightened it up, and it took up a lot of the slack, but it stopped short of taking up the gap.  I backed the retention nut off, but I can't get the left arm to come off the splines now.  I can't pry it.  Its a carbon arm and a carbon frame.  I tried to use a dowel and tap them apart at the visible overlap, but that didn't work.  I was splintering the wood.

I'm screwed.  I'll call FSA in the morning and see what they suggest, but I'm not optimistic about a simple solution.

I knew better than to try to force the arm on, I was just impatient, because this is the second crankset (first was the wrong size) and I just want to get this bike done and tuned up.  I;ve been tinkering for a couple weeks, here and there.

I've got a 3.5 hour ride planned for this weekend and I'm screwed right now.  HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Solutions, or condolences are appreciated.

2008-08-06 8:03 AM
in reply to: #1584300

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...
Not sure which generation crankset this is. I know with the ISIS bottom bracket and individual arms (non-integrated spindle) you need to use a crank puller to get the arms off of the BB spindle. One of these:
http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=26&item=CCP%2D4

The "How to" article says you need the old "square taper" style for the modern 10 speed hollowtech type:
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=120

Sounds to me like you might be one tool away from solving it.

BTW: I have a buggered non-drive arm on my commuter bike. Stripped it out using the crank puller. Use some caution here...
2008-08-06 9:06 AM
in reply to: #1584604

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Master
2356
20001001001002525
Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

pitt83 - 2008-08-06 9:03 AM Not sure which generation crankset this is. I know with the ISIS bottom bracket and individual arms (non-integrated spindle) you need to use a crank puller to get the arms off of the BB spindle. One of these: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=26&item=CCP%2D4 The "How to" article says you need the old "square taper" style for the modern 10 speed hollowtech type: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=120 Sounds to me like you might be one tool away from solving it. BTW: I have a buggered non-drive arm on my commuter bike. Stripped it out using the crank puller. Use some caution here...

 

Interesting.  That might along the right path.  I need something that ties into two sets of threads and then opposes them. 

2008-08-06 9:09 AM
in reply to: #1584775

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...
matt3liv - 2008-08-06 10:06 AM

pitt83 - 2008-08-06 9:03 AM Not sure which generation crankset this is. I know with the ISIS bottom bracket and individual arms (non-integrated spindle) you need to use a crank puller to get the arms off of the BB spindle. One of these: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=26&item=CCP%2D4The "How to" article says you need the old "square taper" style for the modern 10 speed hollowtech type: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=120Sounds to me like you might be one tool away from solving it. BTW: I have a buggered non-drive arm on my commuter bike. Stripped it out using the crank puller. Use some caution here...

 

Interesting.  That might along the right path.  I need something that ties into two sets of threads and then opposes them. 

I think you need to take it to the bike shop...

2008-08-06 9:17 AM
in reply to: #1584792

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Master
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Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...
run4yrlif - 2008-08-06 10:09 AM
matt3liv - 2008-08-06 10:06 AM

pitt83 - 2008-08-06 9:03 AM Not sure which generation crankset this is. I know with the ISIS bottom bracket and individual arms (non-integrated spindle) you need to use a crank puller to get the arms off of the BB spindle. One of these: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=26&item=CCP%2D4The "How to" article says you need the old "square taper" style for the modern 10 speed hollowtech type: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=120Sounds to me like you might be one tool away from solving it. BTW: I have a buggered non-drive arm on my commuter bike. Stripped it out using the crank puller. Use some caution here...

 

Interesting. That might along the right path. I need something that ties into two sets of threads and then opposes them.

I think you need to take it to the bike shop...

 

I know you are right.  I just like doing this stuff myself.  I'll take it up tomorrow at lunchtime if I have to.

2008-08-06 10:04 AM
in reply to: #1584300

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Master
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Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

I think I figured it out.  There is essentially a built in puller.  There is a threaded retention nut, that holds in the regular retention nut.  It allows the regular retention nut to spin in the crank arm.  I should have realized what it was. 

Thanks for the input.

 

 

2008-08-06 10:08 AM
in reply to: #1584775

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Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...
matt3liv - 2008-08-06 10:06 AM

pitt83 - 2008-08-06 9:03 AM Not sure which generation crankset this is. I know with the ISIS bottom bracket and individual arms (non-integrated spindle) you need to use a crank puller to get the arms off of the BB spindle. One of these: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=26&item=CCP%2D4 The "How to" article says you need the old "square taper" style for the modern 10 speed hollowtech type: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=120 Sounds to me like you might be one tool away from solving it. BTW: I have a buggered non-drive arm on my commuter bike. Stripped it out using the crank puller. Use some caution here...

 

Interesting.  That might along the right path.  I need something that ties into two sets of threads and then opposes them. 



This is exactly what a crank puller tool does. I'll speak about the ISIS set up since that's my biggest experience base.

When you remove the crank bolt, that goes into a set of center threads in the hollow spindle. That holds the arm on the splines of the spindle which don't release any tension with the bolt now missing. The arm has a set of threads where the tool spins into. The center of the tool applies pressure to the spindle as you tunr the handle of the tools once it's inserted in the arm. This pushes the arm off the spindle.

Video: http://bicycletutor.com/replace-cotterless-cranks/ The park tool is the same as that 2 wrench system, but is self-contained in 1 tool.

This is a good tool to own; it's cheap and the only way to get those arms off. Bottom bracket removal is the next lesson and another worth knowing.

Edited by pitt83 2008-08-06 10:12 AM
2008-08-06 10:15 AM
in reply to: #1584300

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Master
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Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

I'm all set with BB removal.  I have the tools and have rebuilt several bikes in the last year.  I've caught onto the mechanics pretty quickly and really enjoy wrenching on my bikes.  This is just the first time that I've gotten a crank arm stuck like this.  Its an external bearing FSA SLK-Light carbon armed set.  I was just scared to touch it once it got stuck.

I have a buddy that I've spoken to in the last hour and he has a crank puller that hopefully fits, but he pointed out the fact that the arm probably has a "built in" puller.  Based on the drawings, I think he's right.

 

2008-08-06 3:16 PM
in reply to: #1584300

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Expert
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Lakeville, MN
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...
The SLK is an "external bearing bb" crankset, which is different from the ISIS setup. The crank arm bolt used to secure the non-drive side arm is a self-extracting bolt. In other words, once you secure the arm, when you loosen/remove the crankarm bolt, the crankarm should self-extract. Guess I'm confused as to how you mounted the crankarm to begin with. Even w/out greasing the spindle, you still should have been able to seat the non-drive side arm far enough so that the self-extracting bolt would remove the arm when loosened. Does the retaining bolt have a dust cap or something you screw in to cap off the bolt? If so, you should re-install both the retaining bolt and any cap that comes w/ it. Re-insert a 8MM hex into the retaining bolt (assuming you have access to it depending on the type of cap) and loosen it. By backing out the bolt, it should come in contact w/ the dust cover/cap and extract the crankarm.

Not sure if this makes any sense. It's kind of hard w/out pics.
2008-08-06 3:27 PM
in reply to: #1586098

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Master
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Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

cooutdoors - 2008-08-06 4:16 PM The SLK is an "external bearing bb" crankset, which is different from the ISIS setup. The crank arm bolt used to secure the non-drive side arm is a self-extracting bolt. In other words, once you secure the arm, when you loosen/remove the crankarm bolt, the crankarm should self-extract. Guess I'm confused as to how you mounted the crankarm to begin with. Even w/out greasing the spindle, you still should have been able to seat the non-drive side arm far enough so that the self-extracting bolt would remove the arm when loosened. Does the retaining bolt have a dust cap or something you screw in to cap off the bolt? If so, you should re-install both the retaining bolt and any cap that comes w/ it. Re-insert a 8MM hex into the retaining bolt (assuming you have access to it depending on the type of cap) and loosen it. By backing out the bolt, it should come in contact w/ the dust cover/cap and extract the crankarm. Not sure if this makes any sense. It's kind of hard w/out pics.

This makes perfect sense, and you are right on.

 This was a new install, and I had only put the retaining bolt in, and the cap/rim that hold that into the crank arm was not yet installed.  So, when I backed out the retaining bolt, it just came out, without pulling the crank arm off.  I can't wait to get home and get it off.

Any advice for cleaning up the splines so it will seat?    I'll clean up all the grease and see if I can visually see what's holding it back, but most likely it'll just have to go back to FSA.

Thanks for the confirmation on the fix though.  Sometimes its the simplest thing, staring you in the face.

 

 

2008-08-07 4:00 PM
in reply to: #1584300

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Master
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Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Need help getting a crankset apart ... carbon, oops ...

FWIW, I was just being a chicken.  It just needed more muscle. 

I put the retention nut/cap on, backed the arm off.  I actually took some grease out, and made sure I couldn't find an burrs.  Then I just cranked that baby down.  I was way beyond torque specs.  I then took it off to make sure it wasn't going to be impossible, and put it back on.

Thanks for the help.  I'm a little embarrassed that I couldn't figure out the retention bolt/nut/cap combo on my own, but at least I won't forget it for the future! 

Its also nice top know that the hardware can handle torque well beyond the spec. 

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