Mashing? Spinning?

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2008-09-06 10:20 AM

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Subject: Mashing? Spinning?

Hi all, I kind kind a sorta have read between the lines on this issue, but I am not totally positive what either of those two terms mean. Could someone explain the differance between the two please?

 

I tried a search but no definitive answer.

 

My guess is mashing is lower cadence higher power?

Spinning is higher cadence lower power?

How do these effect a work out?



2008-09-06 10:46 AM
in reply to: #1654945

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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
Bp74 - 2008-09-06 11:20 AM

Hi all, I kind kind a sorta have read between the lines on this issue, but I am not totally positive what either of those two terms mean. Could someone explain the differance between the two please?

I tried a search but no definitive answer.

My guess is mashing is lower cadence higher power?

Spinning is higher cadence lower power?

How do these effect a work out?

Depends on the source, mashing is low rpms, I've read mashing is < 85.  

Spinning is higher RPMs, you'll find >95 defined as spinning.

To each there own when it comes to power optimization though.  Somewhat depends on your muscle fiber makeup (slow & fast twitch percentage) but I could say for many >90 is better.  When I first started on the MTB, I found out why I my legs were getting so tired after only 10 miles, I was mashing at < 75 rpms.  When I found BT and found a thread similar to this I immediately started training to stay around 90 and I was able to get a constant 1 mph increase and ride longer.  Now after 4 years of training, on my Tri-bike my optimum rpm range is 100-105 rpms and can spin that for a long time.

Again this is me.  I know of two riders who have a hard time spinning at 90+ rpms are are typically <85 rpms, but they can't ride at the same speed as I do!

Something to think about is the run.  Again optimal stride rate is variable but I do run races at ~ 88+ strides per minute.  Having a bike cadence that is equal to or greater than your run cadence makes the run easier to deal with, for me at least it does.  Read this for some additional info regarding the brick run.   Oh, have you read this BT article yet?

2008-09-06 11:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
*shrug* I ride just as good at 80rpm than I do at 100.

I typically ride at 85ish.
2008-09-06 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?

Donto - 2008-09-06 11:46 AM

 

Depends on the source, mashing is low rpms, I've read mashing is < 85.  

Spinning is higher RPMs, you'll find >95 defined as spinning.

To each there own when it comes to power optimization though.  Somewhat depends on your muscle fiber makeup (slow & fast twitch percentage) but I could say for many >90 is better.  When I first started on the MTB, I found out why I my legs were getting so tired after only 10 miles, I was mashing at < 75 rpms.  When I found BT and found a thread similar to this I immediately started training to stay around 90 and I was able to get a constant 1 mph increase and ride longer.  Now after 4 years of training, on my Tri-bike my optimum rpm range is 100-105 rpms and can spin that for a long time.

Again this is me.  I know of two riders who have a hard time spinning at 90+ rpms are are typically <85 rpms, but they can't ride at the same speed as I do!

Something to think about is the run.  Again optimal stride rate is variable but I do run races at ~ 88+ strides per minute.  Having a bike cadence that is equal to or greater than your run cadence makes the run easier to deal with, for me at least it does.  Read this for some additional info regarding the brick run.   Oh, have you read this BT article yet?

Thanks, that explains a lot to me. The articles were good reads.

So much to learn!

2008-09-07 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
I might be wrong about this, but from what I have read, it pretty well has nothing to do with RPM's. Mashing is appling most of your power pressing only down on the pedals, were as spinning is applying even pressure through the entire rotation of the pedal. One way to improve your spinning is to do drills like one leg pedaling, or get a fixed gear bike as that you pretty much have to keep up with the pedals. As I said before i could be wrong, but this is what i got from all the stuff I have read.
2008-09-07 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
Triboy77 - 2008-09-07 4:25 PM

I might be wrong about this, but from what I have read, it pretty well has nothing to do with RPM's. Mashing is appling most of your power pressing only down on the pedals, were as spinning is applying even pressure through the entire rotation of the pedal. One way to improve your spinning is to do drills like one leg pedaling, or get a fixed gear bike as that you pretty much have to keep up with the pedals. As I said before i could be wrong, but this is what i got from all the stuff I have read.

When most peope discuss mashing vs. spinning, they are referring to RPMs. For example, should I mash going up a hill, or should I spin?

You can be engaged in a full circular pedal stroke (pushing and pulling), and still be mashing.

2008-09-08 6:02 AM
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Tyler,
Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
also referred to as grinding, or using more muscle than necessary up a hill when you should be spinning.
2008-09-08 6:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
Mashing refers to the "european" style of turning big gears slowly. This style engages high percentages of of the leg muscles, and can lead to quick exhaustion, Jan Ulrich was a masher.

Spinning, popularized by Lance Armstrong, is high cadence, generally above 90 rpms. this method engages fewer muscle fibers at any one time. as muscle tires, fresh muscle takes over.

Mashing takes large amounts of muscle, and is hard on the knees.
2008-09-08 6:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
smilford - 2008-09-06 12:00 PM

*shrug* I ride just as good at 80rpm than I do at 100.

I typically ride at 85ish.


Me too! (But I'm not as fast as you)


2008-09-11 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?
I was wondering about this too - thanks!
2008-09-11 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Mashing? Spinning?

I'm a masher/grinder.  I would debate (but without any real facts or figures) that it can be just as efficient for a cyclist as spinning - because it depends more on the cyclist and their physiology than simply the speed of your cadence.  If that was the case, all the TdF guys would be spinning at some "perfect" cadence that is predetermined.  But they spin at a cadence that is perfect for them, either slow or fast.

I have been a "leaper" my whole life.  Basketball, volleyball, high jump.  I believe I have, and trained, more fast twich muscle fiber.  For me, utilizing that trait that helps with the bike.

I have watched my HR with my Garmin or HRM over the years, and I can climb the same hills, at the same speed, at a lower HR using a lower RPM (grinding or mashing around 70 rpm) than if I try to force myself to spin an easier gear at 90-95 RPM.

It could also be due to my size (6'7" and long legs, that make my bike cadence (and running cadence as well) to be slower than someone who is shorter.



Edited by Aikidoman 2008-09-11 10:23 AM

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