Getting accustomed to being aero

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2009-06-18 12:49 PM

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: Getting accustomed to being aero
Hello all,

I recently purchased my first tri-bike (a p2c, last friday, and raced it on saturday in my first tri Surprised) coming from a road bike, and am working on getting used to being aero.  The first fit I got pretty much stunk (which I raced on, yuck!), but I went to a much better guy yesterday and he set me up great.   Even so I had some questions for those that went from road to tri geometries and getting used to going and staying aero for long periods of time.

1.  Is getting tired/sore shoulders normal for the first few months?  I have a friend that also came from road to tri geometry and he said he experienced the same, so just wanted to make sure we're both having "normal" adaptations to resting our weight differently.

2.  I feel great in the hoods, but when I go aero I feel a lot of pressure in the groin area.  I might need to get a new saddle, but maybe it's something I just need to get used to since that area is not used to the pressure since it's different from being more upright (like when I first got my road bike and went on a long ride, the saddle area became sore, which is normal).  I tilted my saddle ever so slightly for my next ride, but am wondering if this is something I should be more concerned about.

3. About how long do you think it takes to get really used to being aero and staying aero for an entire ride, let's say of 50 miles or more?

Thanks!

2009-06-18 1:00 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
1) No.  If the fit is right you should not be putting any real substantial "pressure" on your upper body.

2) Your fit is still wrong, there should not be any uncomfortable pressure anywhere.  Tilting your saddle below level is NEVER a solution.  You are probably still too closed in and your hip angle is too low.

3) One ride if you have the physical abilities to already ride that distance ..... again assuming proper fitting to the bike.

Other internet "fitters" will offer other ideas with their wealth of experience setting customers up on bikes, so take what I (and they) say with a grain of salt.
2009-06-18 1:18 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
Thanks Rick,

From what I have read, the further down from my seat to the aero bars (the drop basically) makes it a more aggressive, albeit less comfortable, aero position.  I would say there is about a 4 inch drop from my seat to to the aero bars.  Would raising that up possibly alleviate some of my symptoms?  There are 2 "spacers" i think underneath the aero bars, and one on top currently.  Is the most I could raise it up 1 spacer?  I think they are about 3/4 of an inch tall.  I guess what I'm asking, judging by your comments, what do you do to alleviate those things.  The seat height is apparently right though, using the 30 degree leg flexion rule, so wondering what other things can come into play to fix some of the problems.

Thanks.
2009-06-18 1:18 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Extreme Veteran
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Wahiawa, Hawaii.... but now in Florence, KY..
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
I am in the same boat as you are...  just bought a P2C last week and have some pressure by my shoulders.  While i was getting fitted i did swap out the seat for a Cobb?, it made the saddle ALOT more comfortable.  I can stand being in the aero for 5 minutes at a time then need to take a break.  I think it may be normal because i had the same issue when i first got on a road bike and tri bike...  over time it just got better....  I am thinking about getting the risers to raise the arm rests some, hope that helps....  i will go buy it after work.  I'll let you know how it goes...
2009-06-18 1:22 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Burnaby, BC
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero

zomvito - 2009-06-18 10:49 AM Hello all,

I recently purchased my first tri-bike (a p2c, last friday, and raced it on saturday in my first tri Surprised) coming from a road bike, and am working on getting used to being aero.  The first fit I got pretty much stunk (which I raced on, yuck!), but I went to a much better guy yesterday and he set me up great.   Even so I had some questions for those that went from road to tri geometries and getting used to going and staying aero for long periods of time.

1.  Is getting tired/sore shoulders normal for the first few months?  I have a friend that also came from road to tri geometry and he said he experienced the same, so just wanted to make sure we're both having "normal" adaptations to resting our weight differently.

No, this might be caused by your solution to 2 below.  Your weight should be supported by your skeleton while in the aerobars, not your muscles.  Sprint distance setups will differ from Iron distance setups as you can trade some discomfort for better power/aerodynamics, but you still have to run, so it shouldn't hurt.



2.  I feel great in the hoods, but when I go aero I feel a lot of pressure in the groin area.  I might need to get a new saddle, but maybe it's something I just need to get used to since that area is not used to the pressure since it's different from being more upright (like when I first got my road bike and went on a long ride, the saddle area became sore, which is normal).  I tilted my saddle ever so slightly for my next ride, but am wondering if this is something I should be more concerned about.

You may be riding to far back on the saddle.  In aero you tend to ride the nose of the saddle more than the back.  Tilting down will cause you to slide forward and have to push back with your arms causing shoulder discomfort above.  You can rotate the nose a little off to the side if needed, but even with it straight it should only be a little pressure, not more than a good aero position in the drops from your road bike.



3. About how long do you think it takes to get really used to being aero and staying aero for an entire ride, let's say of 50 miles or more?

One ride on the trainer (so I'm not concerned about visibility in traffic or having to climb) does it for me.  Power will go down a bit or RPE will go up a bit for the same effort but you should adapt quickly.


2009-06-18 1:25 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
Hmm, maybe I am too stretched out, would pictures of my position on a trainer be helpful?  I will try to take some tonight if so.

2009-06-18 1:51 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Beaumont
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero

I bought my first tri bike last november, a P2C,  and was fit on a trainer by the LBS.  I suffered through the shoulder/neck pain and tightness until March thinking I just needed to get used to the new position.  Then I went and had a 3D fit and since that day, hate to get out of the aero position because its more comfortable than riding upright.  So, I tend to agree with Daremo...good fit = no pain.

2009-06-18 2:47 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
Nice, was it the retul 3d system?  They have it at the shop I bought from, but the fit guy suggested not throwing money at the problem until we're sure, which I must say is an honest way of doing business.  I still have faith in him and his knowledge, as bike fit is more of an art than an exact science in some ways, he said try out the fit for 2 weeks and come back and we'll tweak it which I will do if these issues persist.  The tightness is where you describe, in the upper back/neck area between the shoulders, not really along my actual shoulders.  This could in fact be me trying to look forward and I'm not used to it.  As for the seat pressing ont he boys, we'll see how that manifests itself in the next two weeks.

Thanks for the advice.
2009-06-18 3:37 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
I bought a P2 this year also.  So I will tell you my eperiences.

1)  Took me about 6 rides to get use to it.  It did feel like there was pressure on my shoulders.  Now I love to ride aero and prefer it over upright.

2) If it is the stock saddle the best thing you can do with it is throw it as far as you can see.  That is what my fitter told me along with one of my training partners that has a P2C.  I got a fizik airone saddle and never looked back.  You may want to check John Cobb's saddles also.

3) Bout a month.
2009-06-18 4:01 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Elite
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Miami
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
give it a couple of rides at least.  it not exactly a natural bike position.

HOWEVER discomfort in the shoulders, i don't think that should be there.   the thing with the aero bike position is, it should be very comfortable, my position in aero is more comfortable then riding on the bull horns.  i feel like my muscles in the upper torso are completely relaxed, and my back is completely relaxed. 

i can understand breathing, that was an issue with my fit I had to slightly adjust the seat position and it was fixed instantly.  the hip was jamming into my stomach so i couldn't take a full breath. 

post a picture of your position people can critique it.
2009-06-18 11:30 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
I've never had to get used to being in aero...it probably took me like 5 minutes...it felt like i was born to ride in aero position...I love it....so I guess I can't really relate...but I'm sure I had a really good fitting so i suggest maybe finding someone else to give you a proper fit.

2009-06-18 11:39 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
I had a pretty good fit (took an hour) on my P2C, and I came from zero road bike background, and I pretty much experienced everything you did for at least a month. In fact, neck fatigue and lower back pain were the limiting factors on my bike rides, and still are for rides 4+ hrs (since I haven't done many of those.)

My saddle feels completely fine now, even in cheapo trishorts for distance, but for sure, it felt like it was going up into my crotch for a month compared to my mtn bike. I think some of the experienced folks here may be so used to it that they dont notice, but for sure, the aggressive forward tri position means a slightly different weight distribution on the saddle that you'll get used to quickly.

I'd give it a few weeks of serious riding at least, and see how it goes from there. If you've gotten a "pro" fit, I find it hard to believe that they'd be so off that you require major refits. You will however, likely find that small adjustments on your own may help with small problem spots.

And yes, the P2C rocks the house. You'll love it even more as you ride it more and more. Initially I regretted spending nearly 3k for my very first roadbike ever, but now in retrospect, I am SO glad that I did - when you're on the bike for 4+ hrs at a time, you really want something that you love and can rely on completely. 

Edited by agarose2000 2009-06-18 11:41 PM
2009-06-18 11:44 PM
in reply to: #2227048


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Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
By no means am I an expert but the shoulder stuff might be because you were set up too aggressively. How many of the spacers did they take out to drop the aero bars? It tooke me 4 hours of riding to get comfortable. I can ride 90% in the aero position, I come out to drink and get nutrition.

As far as the seat pressing on the groin think tilt the seat down just a hair, and see how that works. My original fit felt awesome besides the groin, I went back and the seat got adjusted and I think with the current seat position I will be ready for my Ironman in Sep.
2009-06-19 8:45 AM
in reply to: #2227048

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Wahiawa, Hawaii.... but now in Florence, KY..
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
i was told by a few people that mine was set up real aggressive too..?
2009-06-19 9:15 AM
in reply to: #2227048

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Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
On the bogus topic of "aggressive vs. comfortable" positioning, if you have the time, read this:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2103746;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
2009-06-19 12:38 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
Thanks for the link Rick. I just clicked on the pictures and looked at the pros.  It looks like a very common trend is to sit on the edge of the saddle (toward the tip)... why is that?  Isn't that very likely a factor in why I am getting pain in the groin, if the saddle sucks towards the tip and I am pulling forward just like the pros?  I find myself wanting to pull forward and get very compact to gain power just like a lot of them do.  I am thinking of switching to an ISM Adamo saddle if the problem persists.

I will continue reading and maybe post more thoughts later.  Thanks again.

2009-06-19 12:49 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
Well cool, coming from slowman himself

neck: yes, you're right. this is the singular area of adaptation.

taint: if you're adapting, the problem is the saddle. if it's the right saddle, no adaptation required. three things here: the right saddle, the right shorts, and chamois cream. i've written about "contact points" and "point tenderness" and "friction" before. that's not position related, it is equipment related.


So it looks like the neck adaptation is fine, thats what I mean by soreness in the shoulders, not really being shoulders, but more upper back/neck area between the shoulders.

Secondly, the saddle on the p2c ultegra is known to be terrible, so maybe it is merely something I'll work out with an equipment swap if it persists.

Looks like the fit is pretty good; other than these two things, I don't have any problems going aero... we'll see how they play out in the next couple weeks and over much longer rides.
2009-06-19 1:22 PM
in reply to: #2227048

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Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Getting accustomed to being aero
Sliding forward on the saddle is known as being "on the rivet" because old school saddles were leather fastened to the undercarriage with metal rivets/buttons.  So when you slid forward to try and generate more power (and get more compact and lower) you would be on the nose of the saddle covering up the rivets.

It is a natural tendency when you are pushing hard to do that.  Ideally you still want to be sitting in the saddle the way you normally would.  On bikes with slacker seat tube angles though, sliding forward allows you to effectively change your angle.  In pro cycling, you are limited to how far the nose of the saddle is allowed to be in relation to the centerline of the bottom bracket axis.  So they will cut the nose off of their saddle to allow it to be more forward and then ride on the rivet (for TT races).  Many strong tri cyclists come from a decent road background and it is habit forming.  In shorter races I will do it as well, especially when I'm trying to power through something.

Edited by Daremo 2009-06-19 1:22 PM
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