Help with milk PLEASE...Bleck!
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Member![]() ![]() | ![]() Okay, so i've had a pretty healthy diet in my 19 years of life...minus the fact that I haven't had a glass of milk since I was about 4. I just can't stand the taste of it. I drank calcium fortified orange juice instead, but I realize that it's far from the nutrition benefits of milk. So, I've been trying just recently to find a way to drink a glass a day. My first logical move was to mix in Ovaltine, because the commercials make it sound healthy. Unfortunately, I failed to look at the ingredient list until after I got it home. Sure, it tastes great, but its like 95% sugar and cocoa, and it really only contains tiny amounts of the 12 minerals it claims to have. What should I have expected coming from a kid's chocolate drink, right? I then found Carnation Essentials Breakfast Drink powder. I like the taste of it too, and the nutritional content is definately better, but it too has the second and third ingredients listed as sugar and cocoa. I'm half-way thinking that it's better to just for-go the glass of milk since I'm adding all this sugar and stuff? I would just go back to the fortified orange juice, but I've been trying to stay away from juices as much since they contain tons of sugar too. I've tried soy milk once awhile back, but recall I wasn't so fond of it. I'm afraid to buy a carton of soy milk only to take one sip and realize I really don't like it, and I wasn't sure if the nutrition was as good as real milk? So I was wondering if there are any other relatively inexpensive drink mixes ( I'm just a poor college student...), how soy milk nutrition stacks up to real milk and if I should go ahead and try different soy milks, or if I should just go back to the fortified orange juice. I'm trying to do what's best for me and I always hear the young women need more calcium...etc. I could may choke down a glass of straight milk for a morning or two, but unless I find a way to enjoy it, I know I won't bother. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I would recommend not drinking milk at all. Every wonder why America is the country with the highest consumption rate of milk and other dairy but also has the highest occurrence of osteoporosis? It's because milk does more harm then good. Humans are the only (animal/mammal/life form or whatever) that consumes milk past infancy. Our bodies were not meant to digest the breast milk of another animal and as a result, the consumption of milk actually leaches calcium from our bones in order to neutralize the acidic byproduct that our body creates in order to digest it. There is a ton on information online that backs this up and I highly encourage you to look into it. The dairy producers of America spend millions if not billions on advertisements and other means of propaganda to make us think otherwise. They have very strong lobbying efforts just as most large organizations do. If I want a little milk in my cereal or coffee I personally use soy milk. I don't use a lot as I'm a guy and too much soy is bad for dudes. I'm trying to cut out dairy from my diet and I can't remember when the last time I had a glass of cows milk. Green leafy vegetables are a great source of everything we need. I'm by no means a vegetarian but ounce for ounce, green leafy vegetables beat out any other source for essential vitamins and minerals. Spinach for example is full of vitiams and minerals. It also has 13 grams of protein for every 100 calories. I can't think of any other type of food that has that much protein per 100 calories. A google search on the issue provides a tone of information against the regular consumption of milk as your source of calcium, check it out: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US Edited by Mirg 2009-07-06 5:50 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mirg - 2009-07-06 5:48 PM I would recommend not drinking milk at all. Every wonder why America is the country with the highest consumption rate of milk and other dairy but also has the highest occurrence of osteoporosis? It's because milk does more harm then good. Humans are the only (animal/mammal/life form or whatever) that consumes milk past infancy. Our bodies were not meant to digest the breast milk of another animal and as a result, the consumption of milk actually leaches calcium from our bones in order to neutralize the acidic byproduct that our body creates in order to digest it. There is a ton on information online that backs this up and I highly encourage you to look into it. The dairy producers of America spend millions if not billions on advertisements and other means of propaganda to make us think otherwise. They have very strong lobbying efforts just as most large organizations do. If I want a little milk in my cereal or coffee I personally use soy milk. I don't use a lot as I'm a guy and too much soy is bad for dudes. I'm trying to cut out dairy from my diet and I can't remember when the last time I had a glass of cows milk. Green leafy vegetables are a great source of everything we need. I'm by no means a vegetarian but ounce for ounce, green leafy vegetables beat out any other source for essential vitamins and minerals. Spinach for example is full of vitiams and minerals. It also has 13 grams of protein for every 100 calories. I can't think of any other type of food that has that much protein per 100 calories.*********************************************************Wow. You're railing on "propaganda" while putting some pretty dubious and unsubstantiated info out for consumption.No idea what's wrong with the formatting of my post. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DerekL - 2009-07-06 5:12 PM Mirg - 2009-07-06 5:48 PM I would recommend not drinking milk at all. Every wonder why America is the country with the highest consumption rate of milk and other dairy but also has the highest occurrence of osteoporosis? It's because milk does more harm then good. Humans are the only (animal/mammal/life form or whatever) that consumes milk past infancy. Our bodies were not meant to digest the breast milk of another animal and as a result, the consumption of milk actually leaches calcium from our bones in order to neutralize the acidic byproduct that our body creates in order to digest it. There is a ton on information online that backs this up and I highly encourage you to look into it. The dairy producers of America spend millions if not billions on advertisements and other means of propaganda to make us think otherwise. They have very strong lobbying efforts just as most large organizations do. If I want a little milk in my cereal or coffee I personally use soy milk. I don't use a lot as I'm a guy and too much soy is bad for dudes. I'm trying to cut out dairy from my diet and I can't remember when the last time I had a glass of cows milk. Green leafy vegetables are a great source of everything we need. I'm by no means a vegetarian but ounce for ounce, green leafy vegetables beat out any other source for essential vitamins and minerals. Spinach for example is full of vitiams and minerals. It also has 13 grams of protein for every 100 calories. I can't think of any other type of food that has that much protein per 100 calories.Wow. You're railing on "propaganda" while putting some pretty dubious and unsubstantiated info out for consumption. What was unsubstantiated in what I said. There are numerious souces that debunk the "we need three glasses of milk a day" thought. Sure, I'm no Dr. but I feel pretty confidiant in what I've read. Edited by Mirg 2009-07-06 7:18 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Since my formatting is bad, I'll answer here. First I'd say that implying that milk consumption and osteoporosis rates are related is a fallacy. Correlatio. Doesn't equal causation. Next, the idea that blood becomes acidic and needs things "leeches" from bones to correct this is erroneous. Your body buffers you blood quite efficiently and keeps its pH very tightly controlled. There is no credible evidence that milk causes this to happen. Just because you find a lot of information on Google doesn't make it true. Here's a good rundown of some of this by a very bright guy who is notoriously evidence based in his analysis of things. http://thefitnessinsider.menshealth.com/2007/05/if_you_were_at_.htm... |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() If it is so repulsive to you, don't drink it. No need to choke down something you find disgusting. Also, just to chime in--- The acidic environment/calcium leaching situation mentioned above is not propoganda, it's fact. An aside about the "milk makes strong bones" advertising campagin... MOST dairy cows are eating corn these days because corn is a cheaper food source. Corn fed cows produce miniscule amounts of calcium in their milk compared to pastured/grass fed cows. The calcium in corn fed cow's milk these days comes from supplements. It's not naturally occuring. Calcium's a mineral, you dig? It comes from the earth. Plants have calcium from growing in the earth. You'd be better off just eating the sort of plants that give cows calcium. Or you could go with other calcium-enriched drinks, but milk isn't your only option. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Interesting, thanks for the link. I'll admit, my scientific understanding is more then lacking. However, based on the what I've read from the publications that I believe are fairly credible, I don't drink cow's milk. I don't like it and I don't believe it is necessary. They're are two sides to every argument and the truth often is found somewhere in the middle. It is not necessary for the OP to drink milk to get adaquate calcium in their diet. Since they stated that they hated the taste of milk and it was hard for them to drink it, the main take away from my post is that there are plenty of other sources that are able to provide more then enough calicum for a healthy diet.
Edited by Mirg 2009-07-06 7:54 PM |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ETA to remove everything everyone else said already while I was typing this. Foods with lots of calcium include broccoli, almonds, collard greens, okra, rutabagas, sesame/tahini, and soybeans (most beans have some calcium, soybeans have a ton). Just google "foods high in calcium" or "more calcium in diet." Soy milks do vary quite a bit in taste and texture. If you've got any vegetarian friends, they've probably tried tons of brands and might be able to narrow things down for you so you don't have to buy every brand in the store. If all of the above sound gross, you might be stuck taking supplements. Edited by Silver Bullet 2009-07-06 8:01 PM |
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Member![]() ![]() | ![]() mirg- I did read a few of the articles from your link. I find your argument interesting, and I'm sure I'll read more about it when I get a chance. That being said, I'm far from convinced. I'm not saying you're wrong, but like DerekL said, correlation doesn't equal causation. I have a far easier time believing that the United States high osteoporosis rates are due to our excessively fatty, sugary, processed, and overal unhealthy diets rather than due to the increased milk drinkage going on. We may consume the most milk, but we also consume the most crap, and almost certainly exercise the least, which also contributes to bone degeneration. I appreciate your input, and am curious as to what others have to say about this. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() trinoob18 - 2009-07-06 6:00 PM mirg- I did read a few of the articles from your link. I find your argument interesting, and I'm sure I'll read more about it when I get a chance. That being said, I'm far from convinced. I'm not saying you're wrong, but like DerekL said, correlation doesn't equal causation. I have a far easier time believing that the United States high osteoporosis rates are due to our excessively fatty, sugary, processed, and overal unhealthy diets rather than due to the increased milk drinkage going on. We may consume the most milk, but we also consume the most crap, and almost certainly exercise the least, which also contributes to bone degeneration. I appreciate your input, and am curious as to what others have to say about this.
I can accept that. I'm an accountant, not a scientist. Personally, I try to avoid cow's milk. Of course, eating ice creme and other dairy products nullifies my efforts. I'm on track to cut out all dariy from 95% of my diet. It's a personal choice that I'm making based on the things that I've studied. It boils down to the fact that I feel there are superior sources for the nutrients found in dairy products. You gotta find out what works best for you though. |
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![]() ![]() | ![]() An orthopedist where I work gave an inservice and said that your body can only absorb so much calcium at one time, so you need to spread out your calcium intake over the course of the day. Plus your body's bone-building rate slows and stops in your mid- to late twenties, if I remember correctly. Seems like it's a different age range for men vs. women. So eat a yogurt but no other source of calcium at the same time, or just don't count on getting more than 500 mgs of calcium at one time. And don't drink your milk or OJ or other source along with your multivitamin, as anything over 500 mg at once makes for very expensive urine. I've tried rice milk and I like it better than soy milk, but I've not compared carb or other nutrient counts. I'm a life-long dairy user, and either try to drink organic (grass-fed) cow's milk or rice milk or a mixture of the two. Brown rice milk tasted strong to me, like soy, but white rice milk was more like skim (cow's) milk. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mirg - 2009-07-06 7:53 PMIt is not necessary for the OP to drink milk to get adaquate calcium in their diet. Since they stated that they hated the taste of milk and it was hard for them to drink it, the main take away from my post is that there are plenty of other sources that are able to provide more then enough calicum for a healthy diet. Completely agree with this. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() freckle face - 2009-07-06 7:48 PMAlso, just to chime in--- Stating that something is fact doesn't make it so. I'm pretty aware of the body's buffering mechanisms, and that isn't a significant one. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary.The acidic environment/calcium leaching situation mentioned above is not propoganda, it's fact. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DerekL - 2009-07-06 9:26 PM freckle face - 2009-07-06 7:48 PMAlso, just to chime in--- Stating that something is fact doesn't make it so. I'm pretty aware of the body's buffering mechanisms, and that isn't a significant one. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary.The acidic environment/calcium leaching situation mentioned above is not propoganda, it's fact. Okay, fair enough. I am always doing this, glad you called me out. I need to make sure I've got the right information at my finger tips to back up statements like that. And I can't say it is fact. I shouldn't have claimed it was fact. I've just formed an opinion based on things I've read. It's true that there are too many variables to say that milk is a cause for osteoporosis. From the Harvard Nurses Study (an investigation into osteoporosis and bone loss in women. From 1980 to 1992 the study followed 77,761 women between ages 34 and 59 to determine the relationship between milk consumption and osteoporosis.) "Those who drank three or more glasses of milk per day had no reduction in the risk of hip or arm fractures over the 12-year period, compared to women who drank little or no milk, even after adjustment for weight, menopausal status, smoking, and alcohol use. Fracture rates were higher for those who consumed three or more servings, compared to those who did not drink milk." Just like red meat, which hasn't been proven to cause heart disease, the correlation is enough to make me think that I'm better off without it. |
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![]() | ![]() OOOH a milk thread! My opinion is that humans have no business drinking cow's milk. Cow's milk is meant for baby cows, which are weaned off of their mother's milk at a young age, just like humans are. Why do humans drink cow's milk? It baffles and repulses me, and I can't figure out why it doesn't repulse everyone, honestly! Milk. Meant. For. A. Cow. OK off soap box. OP asked about nutrients in soy milk. I happen to have a Chocolate Soy Milk carton sitting right here. Per cup (serving), Silk Chocolate contains 30% daily recommended value Calcium, 30% daily recommended value Vitamin D, 190g Omaga-3s, 140 calories, 5g protein, 23g carbohydrates, 0mg cholesterol and 0.5g saturated fat. I am also in the camp of don't drink it if you hate it! Besides the wonderful calcium/nutrient suggestions in this thread, there are other milk alternatives besides soy milk. I love Almond Milk and Rice Milk for cereal and baking. Experiment and find what you like! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() freckle face - 2009-07-06 11:11 PM DerekL - 2009-07-06 9:26 PM freckle face - 2009-07-06 7:48 PMAlso, just to chime in--- Stating that something is fact doesn't make it so. I'm pretty aware of the body's buffering mechanisms, and that isn't a significant one. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary.The acidic environment/calcium leaching situation mentioned above is not propoganda, it's fact. Okay, fair enough. I am always doing this, glad you called me out. I need to make sure I've got the right information at my finger tips to back up statements like that. And I can't say it is fact. I shouldn't have claimed it was fact. I've just formed an opinion based on things I've read. It's true that there are too many variables to say that milk is a cause for osteoporosis. From the Harvard Nurses Study (an investigation into osteoporosis and bone loss in women. From 1980 to 1992 the study followed 77,761 women between ages 34 and 59 to determine the relationship between milk consumption and osteoporosis.) "Those who drank three or more glasses of milk per day had no reduction in the risk of hip or arm fractures over the 12-year period, compared to women who drank little or no milk, even after adjustment for weight, menopausal status, smoking, and alcohol use. Fracture rates were higher for those who consumed three or more servings, compared to those who did not drink milk." Just like red meat, which hasn't been proven to cause heart disease, the correlation is enough to make me think that I'm better off without it. Not sure how I can convince you if you believe that correlation equals causation. It doesn't. Picking out one study from hundreds and using correlational evidence to support a claim isn't really reviewing the literature at all. As always, you're free to believe what you'd like for any reason you'd like, but it's not based on objective evidence. The same goes for Lisa's reply which is simply an emotional answer based on personal feelings rather than being based on anything objective. It's perfectly fine as a personal viewpoint as you can believe anything you'd like.And a quick example of correlation not equaling causation is this nice graph. ![]() (pirates.jpg) Attachments ---------------- pirates.jpg (29KB - 36 downloads) |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() And to counter the posted study, here is one that is actually a randomized controlled trail that shows POSITIVE CAUSITIVE effect. Kukuljan S, Nowson CA, Bass SL, Sanders K, Nicholson GC, Seibel MJ, Salmon J, Daly RM.Centre for Physical Activity and Nutrition Research, School of Exercise and Nutrition Sciences, Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia.SUMMARY: We examined the independent and combined effects of a multi-component exercise program and calcium-vitamin-D(3)-fortified milk on bone mineral density (BMD) in older men. Exercise resulted in a 1.8% net gain in femoral neck BMD, but additional calcium-vitamin D(3) did not enhance the response in this group of older well-nourished men. INTRODUCTION: This 12-month randomised controlled trial assessed whether calcium-vitamin-D(3)-fortified milk could enhance the effects of a multi-component exercise program on BMD in older men. METHODS: Men (n = 180) aged 50-79 years were randomised into: (1) exercise + fortified milk; (2) exercise; (3) fortified milk; or (4) controls. Exercise consisted of high intensity progressive resistance training with weight-bearing impact exercise. Men assigned to fortified milk consumed 400 mL/day of low fat milk providing an additional 1,000 mg/day calcium and 800 IU/day vitamin D(3). Femoral neck (FN), total hip, lumbar spine and trochanter BMD and body composition (DXA), muscle strength 25-hydroxyvitamin D and parathyroid hormone (PTH) were assessed. RESULTS: There were no exercise-by-fortified milk interactions at any skeletal site. Exercise resulted in a 1.8% net gain in FN BMD relative to no-exercise (p < 0.001); lean mass (0.6 kg, p < 0.05) and muscle strength (20-52%, p < 0.001) also increased in response to exercise. For lumbar spine BMD, there was a net 1.4-1.5% increase in all treatment groups relative to controls (all p < 0.01). There were no main effects of fortified milk at any skeletal site. CONCLUSION: A multi-component community-based exercise program was effective for increasing FN BMD in older men, but additional calcium-vitamin D(3) did not enhance the osteogenic response. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() freckle face - 2009-07-07 9:48 AM If it is so repulsive to you, don't drink it. No need to choke down something you find disgusting. Also, just to chime in--- The acidic environment/calcium leaching situation mentioned above is not propoganda, it's fact. An aside about the "milk makes strong bones" advertising campagin... MOST dairy cows are eating corn these days because corn is a cheaper food source. Corn fed cows produce miniscule amounts of calcium in their milk compared to pastured/grass fed cows. The calcium in corn fed cow's milk these days comes from supplements. It's not naturally occuring. Calcium's a mineral, you dig? It comes from the earth. Plants have calcium from growing in the earth. You'd be better off just eating the sort of plants that give cows calcium. Or you could go with other calcium-enriched drinks, but milk isn't your only option. You know, I've been drinking a whole lot more milk lately basically because it's a cheap way to get protein and calcium, but I completely forgot about the whole corn-fed issue that's been becoming an overwhelming norm. Rawrrr. I mean I'm sure its still somewhat healthy but this just bums me out. Nutrition these days is so complicated! (Not like it wasn't before but ignorance is bliss so at least mentally they had it better 100s of years ago) Hey have you tried yogurt? There is probably a better chance that you can find some sort of yogurt that doesn't repulse you, and yogurt is pretty healthy... ![]() |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() "And a quick example of correlation not equaling causation is this nice graph. " ![]() hahaha. I didn't know the rise in global temperatures was one of the causes of the increasing number of pirates! Interesting... ;D Edited by cam224 2009-07-18 2:27 AM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't like milk either...I will drink chocalate soy milk. I will put it in my cereal or smoothies. You can get calcium from other sources. Cottage cheese, yogurt cheese. Heck, even calcium chews. If you don't like it, don't drink it! |
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![]() | ![]() DerekL - 2009-07-07 7:17 AM The same goes for Lisa's reply which is simply an emotional answer based on personal feelings rather than being based on anything objective. It's perfectly fine as a personal viewpoint as you can believe anything you'd like. While my answer may be emotionally based, isn't it a scienfitic fact that cow's milk is meant for baby cows? I realize I am not going to change any minds because in our culture we are brainwashed taught to believe that cow's milk is essential to having a healthy body. I just wonder sometimes how people can truly justify that it is healthy and essential for humans when stepping back and thinking what it is that's being put into their body. (this goes for things beyond cow's milk of course). |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() lisac957 - 2009-07-18 9:26 AM While my answer may be emotionally based, isn't it a scienfitic fact that cow's milk is meant for baby cows? I realize I am not going to change any minds because in our culture we are brainwashed taught to believe that cow's milk is essential to having a healthy body. I just wonder sometimes how people can truly justify that it is healthy and essential for humans when stepping back and thinking what it is that's being put into their body. (this goes for things beyond cow's milk of course). x2 ... actually - x1000 |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() lisac957 - 2009-07-18 11:26 AM DerekL - 2009-07-07 7:17 AM The same goes for Lisa's reply which is simply an emotional answer based on personal feelings rather than being based on anything objective. It's perfectly fine as a personal viewpoint as you can believe anything you'd like. While my answer may be emotionally based, isn't it a scienfitic fact that cow's milk is meant for baby cows? I realize I am not going to change any minds because in our culture we are brainwashed taught to believe that cow's milk is essential to having a healthy body. I just wonder sometimes how people can truly justify that it is healthy and essential for humans when stepping back and thinking what it is that's being put into their body. (this goes for things beyond cow's milk of course). It's made for that, but plant leaves are made for reasons other than eating. Animal muscles are made for reasons other than eating. Fruit is made for reasons other than eating. There is nothing out there that evolved to what it is to be food for humans. WE evolved to eat a variety of things and break down the macronutrients in them for our use. And nobody here is claiming that milk is essential for health. However, I do think that it can be part of a healthy diet. There's nothing special about it that makes it any different than other foods. It's protein, carbs, and fat. We break it down just like other foods. |