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Resting too long between run
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 2009-07-29 11:02 AM |
Extreme Veteran  454   Canton, MI |  Subject: Resting too long between runI am following a running plan that do 3 run a week to prepare for a marathon. (1 interval, 1 tempo and 1 long run) I am up to 14 miles but I cannot keep up without at least 2 days of rest in between (sometimes 3 days) or my knees will start hurting. Should I spend 1.5 week to do 1 week workout? Any other suggestions? |
| 2009-07-29 11:06 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
Champion 7233  | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run personally, i cant help you with a schedule like that, however, if one of my athletes tried that, i would prob drop them if they continued as to me it sounds like a HUGE injury risk. if it were me/my training, what i would do would be to take a few days off, and start up running 3-4 days a week with a few 20 min runs, the next week ad 5 min to two of them, the following week ad in another 15 min run, so on and so forth until you have a more consistant base of running daily under your belt. the shorter runs will be a lot easier on your body, and allow you to slowly build up the milage without trying to cram it all into 3 runs. |
| 2009-07-29 11:11 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run Have you seen a doctor? That's the first issue...do you know WHY your knee is hurting? Can it be remedied with PT or other treatment? I'm assuming you're doing the FIRST plan. That's a pretty intense plan. Even though it only has you running 3 dpw, they are all high quality runs. If you are injured/injury prone/coming off an injury, it's not always the best way to go. And if you have a chronic condition (like OA), it may REALLY not be the best choice. I run 3 dpw, and find that I need two days after my long run, but can get by with just one day after each of the others. When I'm using the FIRST plan, I typically do my speed/intervals on Monday, tempo on Wednesday, and LR on friday--which gives me two days off on the weekends. You could also consider supplementing your run training with pool running, which I do. Honestly though, if you are in pain, you should really get evaluated by a doc and base yoru training off that. Edited by mmrocker13 2009-07-29 11:12 AM |
| 2009-07-29 11:12 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
Extreme Veteran 448 Atlanta | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run Is it the long run or another run that's bugging the knee? 1 option would be to stay with the long run (as long as the knee is good) then replace the Interval run with Aquajogging (basically then giving your knees 3-4 days of impact free stuff). You can still hit the HR goals in the pool and its no impact. just my .02 |
| 2009-07-29 11:14 AM in reply to: #2315012 |
Pro 3906  Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run newbz - 2009-07-29 11:06 AM personally, i cant help you with a schedule like that, however, if one of my athletes tried that, i would prob drop them if they continued as to me it sounds like a HUGE injury risk. if it were me/my training, what i would do would be to take a few days off, and start up running 3-4 days a week with a few 20 min runs, the next week ad 5 min to two of them, the following week ad in another 15 min run, so on and so forth until you have a more consistant base of running daily under your belt. the shorter runs will be a lot easier on your body, and allow you to slowly build up the milage without trying to cram it all into 3 runs. x2!! Not sure of the plan, but sounds like a recipe for disaster with a tempo and interval day. Work on building frequency at easier paces for most runs. Keep the long run, make one of your tempo or interval days easier (or make both easier completely til the knee pain isnt an issue), and splash in a 4th or 5th day easier. Getting an appropriate base before touching the speedwork is necessary to prevent injuries for most people. You dont have to run slower all the time but I know for sure 2/3rds of your runs at tempo pace or above is gonna keep hurting your knees. |
| 2009-07-29 11:14 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run My opinion is that you should drop the interval run entirely and don't do any before your marathon. You should also drop the tempo run for now. You should then try to add a fourth run--even if this means curtting back your long run some. Consider adding a tempo run back if things are going well again in a few weeks. But don't do it otherwise. You have built your volume too fast and introduced intensity at the same time. Recipe for injury. |
| 2009-07-29 11:17 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
| 1072 | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run You need to get some help concering the knee pain. Something is not right to be having knee pain with that little of running. Ii may be wrong type of shoes, issues with your stride, foot placement, etc. It could be your body alignment. I suggest going to a good running store to get some advice. You may have to see a foot doctor or a chiroprator. It is hard to tell without looking at your running stride. You may also be simply increasing your running time too quickly each time you run. May want to consider running short distances but doing it 5-6 times a week. to start out. Edited by browncd 2009-07-29 11:18 AM |
| 2009-07-29 11:22 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
Extreme Veteran 510 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run I was thinking it sounds like the FIRST (fulman institute) plan as well. What I believe is that even though the plan says it's for someone doing their first marathon I believe it's really for someone doing their first marathon but has years of running shorter distances already. The amount of intensity in that plan is way too hard on the joints that don't have years of running to strenthen them. If you don't have this background find a plan with more easy miles and prehaps more frequncy. |
| 2009-07-29 12:01 PM in reply to: #2315000 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run Sounds like the FIRST plan to me as well. What crosstraining are you doing? Are you going too hard during that training? Also, are you trying to do at too high of a pace? I started the FIRST plan a few weeks ago and agree that the workouts are intense. I would back off on the paces a bit and see if it improves. |
| 2009-07-29 12:48 PM in reply to: #2315000 |
Extreme Veteran 454 Canton, MI | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run Thank you everyone for the response and suggestions. This is my running plan from Runnerworld:
I am not sure if this is FIRST. I am not following it 100%. In a typical week, I crosstrain with 3 days of either bike/swim during "rest day". And I am not doing tempo run when the run is longer than 6 miles. Which means I stop tempo and make it a normal run after week 5. My interval is below 10min/mile, and I do 11-12min/mile for long run. It sounds slow but thats my "comfortable" peace. I am up to week 11 already. I start having knee problem in week 9 after the long run. The knee problem start becoming obvious after the 14miles in week 10. Base on everyone options, I should: 1. go seek a doctor 2. rest a few days 3. run less until build up again 4. go easier on the run 5. aqua run 6. check shoes Now I rest at least two days in between run. Not sure if I should take 1 whole week of resting instead. I already drop the tempo so I will make the interval run into a normal 5 miler and see how it goes. If I am still hurting, I will replace the normal 5 miler with aqua run. (Or maybe swim or bike) Maybe I just replace my shoes for safety. And I will make a doc appointment now. If the pain go on, I come back for more advise... Anything you guys suggest to do? I am glad I start the plan early to spare extra time for rest and other triathlon race. My marathon will be Oct 19 which is 2 months away. I really hate to stop at this point. |
| 2009-07-29 1:24 PM in reply to: #2315292 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run I saw that plan from your logs. Personally, I don't really like it as I think you should be running 4x most weeks. But, anyway, there is no real tempo or interval running in it. The intervals are just a bit outside your 'comfort' range, so you should be fine with how you are approaching that. The "TUT" just means you should be running up some hills with a bit more effort (go by feel, not pace). Again, just outside of your 'comfortable' range. All those segmetns should just be a little harder than 'normal', but should never really 'hurt'. The biggest problem I see is that you simply didn't have enough running base when you started. The plan suggests that you should have been running 15-20 miles per week for about 6 months before starting this. You don't appear to have been doing so and, therefore, your body is simply not ready for the jump in volume. Lots of people run marathons doing it the way you are. Lots of those people end up with injuries and inadequate training too. I'm sure you don't want to hear it (and probably won't listen anyway), but your best bet would be to skip this marathon, rest your legs now and begin rebuilding your running base gradually for another marathon attempt next year. |
| 2009-07-29 2:00 PM in reply to: #2315000 |
| New user 476 | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run Have you been fitted with a good shoe? The right shoe can correct bad bio mechanics that can cause pain. A good running store will evaluate and fit you into the proper type of shoe. |
| 2009-07-29 2:23 PM in reply to: #2315000 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run I would agree with JohnnyKay. If you didn't have the base to begin you are asking to be injured. Earlier this year I was training for a half-marathon. Life, etc. got in the way of training for a few weeks and I tried to jump right back into the higher volume phase. I immediately started experiencing leg issues, etc. I scrapped the half marathon and started working at building back the base slowly. It's not worth injuring yourself over. Edited by dangremond 2009-07-29 2:24 PM |
| 2009-07-29 2:32 PM in reply to: #2315292 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run This isn't the FIRST plan, which is good...b/c that one really WOULD get you hurt. As it is, I don't think you have quite teh right base to be tackling this plan. Do I think running a marathon on 3 DPW of land running is doable? Certainly. But A) you need a good base and B) you have to XT and C) you can't be injured. For now, I think you should go to a doctor and figure out what's up with your knee. If it's something easy that can be handled with strength training and taping, then you're fine. If not...well, best to stop now before you hurt something. DEFINITELY take some time off. |
| 2009-07-29 2:59 PM in reply to: #2315000 |
Extreme Veteran 454 Canton, MI | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run I didn't join BT and use the log until end of last year. But I was running 15 -20miles per week (20km - 36km) for a half mary last year. Although I slack a bit for winter, I should have enough base? Just book a doc appointment... |
| 2009-07-29 3:18 PM in reply to: #2315685 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run But your running for the six months prior to starting this plan does not appear to be close to 15-20 miles per week. If you take a long hiatus, you need to rebuild gradually again. Perhaps a bit faster than the first time, but gradually nonetheless. No, I don't think you had enough base. |
| 2009-07-30 10:09 AM in reply to: #2315755 |
Extreme Veteran 454 Canton, MI | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run JohnnyKay - 2009-07-29 4:18 PM But your running for the six months prior to starting this plan does not appear to be close to 15-20 miles per week. If you take a long hiatus, you need to rebuild gradually again. Perhaps a bit faster than the first time, but gradually nonetheless. No, I don't think you had enough base. I am so hoping you are wrong  Stop running today. And stop biking too. Since I start the plan, I never have any problem and feel very good. Thought I was in smooth sailing until last week. |
| 2009-07-30 11:08 AM in reply to: #2317189 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run yorkee - 2009-07-30 10:09 AM JohnnyKay - 2009-07-29 4:18 PM But your running for the six months prior to starting this plan does not appear to be close to 15-20 miles per week. If you take a long hiatus, you need to rebuild gradually again. Perhaps a bit faster than the first time, but gradually nonetheless. No, I don't think you had enough base. I am so hoping you are wrong Stop running today. And stop biking too. Since I start the plan, I never have any problem and feel very good. Thought I was in smooth sailing until last week. Well, if you incorporate walk breaks into your running you can probably keep from getting injured- to a certain extent. When I have done walk/run combos for my longer distance training- I don't get injured. Whereas with all running- I get injured. Just a thought. |
| 2009-07-30 11:17 AM in reply to: #2315000 |
| Regular 86 | Subject: RE: Resting too long between run I have to agree with JohnnyKay and a lot of the other posts of this thread. You should probably have higher frequency, lower mileage, lower intensity runs for your marathon. Taking 2 days off instead of 1 day off between runs will not really solve the issue if there is an injury there, it may just delay the need for more long term recovery/rest. Good luck at the Doctor, hopefully that will help you find out the source of the pain and will give you a better idea about how to move forward. |
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