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Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation?
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 2009-10-19 10:17 PM |
 Subject: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation?Has anyone tried Prolotherapy for a disk herniation, with success? What about McKenzie Treatment? Cheers |
| 2009-10-21 4:55 PM in reply to: #2468029 |
Champion  7704     Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? kiwee - 2009-10-19 11:17 PM Has anyone tried Prolotherapy for a disk herniation, with success? What about McKenzie Treatment? Cheers
Mackenzie may help. 80% of people with a disc hernition will get better without surgery. I would try 1-oral steroids 2-epidural steorids 3-surgery if 1 and 2 do not work. I would not try prolotherapy. I have seen no solid science on it and I do not think it works. |
| 2009-10-21 5:23 PM in reply to: #2468029 |
| Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? Thanks, Has been 11 weeks now, doing regular PT and core excersises, massage and Accupuncture. Swim 3 - 4 times a week with little trouble. My PT, Massage Therapist and Personal Trainer have all warned against steroid injections as they wil mask the pain, and with no pain I'll be back onto running and cycling which may end up doing more damage. One leg is 90% ok know (I have no back pain?) but this week after a two hour walk in the hills my left has a feeling that it has been scalded with hot water? Worse when I am sitting? Up untill the teh left was trouble free? |
| 2009-10-23 8:09 PM in reply to: #2472200 |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? kiwee - 2009-10-21 6:23 PM Thanks, Has been 11 weeks now, doing regular PT and core excersises, massage and Accupuncture. Swim 3 - 4 times a week with little trouble. My PT, Massage Therapist and Personal Trainer have all warned against steroid injections as they wil mask the pain, and with no pain I'll be back onto running and cycling which may end up doing more damage. One leg is 90% ok know (I have no back pain?) but this week after a two hour walk in the hills my left has a feeling that it has been scalded with hot water? Worse when I am sitting? Up untill the teh left was trouble free?
This is like the BILLIONTH time I have posted this...STEROIDS DO NOT JUST MASK THE PAIN. A steroid is a strong anti-inflammatory medication. The principle is to either take the steroid orally or have it injected where the INFLAMMATION IS to quiet it down. A steroid is a treatment. Now PAIN medicine like vicodin etc WILL just "mask the pain" So Once again the steroid TREATS the problem. IF in treating the problem the pain the problem is causing goes away it is not MASKING something. Given the choices between surgery or a steroid I'd take the roid everytime. |
| 2009-10-23 10:11 PM in reply to: #2468029 |
Member 61 | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? Dear Socks: So for a tendon tear (rotator cuff) or like a ligament tear, are you saying that a cortisone shot is an anti-inflammtory and that it wouldn't be contraindicated if there's swelling? Why do you not believe that prolotherapy works? When you say there's no science to it, what do you mean? I'm not trying to discredit you or antagonize you in any way, I'm just curious what other people know. Thanks. Appreciate your response. |
| 2009-10-24 5:43 PM in reply to: #2477087 |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? ace1dc - 2009-10-23 11:11 PM Dear Socks: So for a tendon tear (rotator cuff) or like a ligament tear, are you saying that a cortisone shot is an anti-inflammtory and that it wouldn't be contraindicated if there's swelling? Why do you not believe that prolotherapy works? When you say there's no science to it, what do you mean? I'm not trying to discredit you or antagonize you in any way, I'm just curious what other people know. Thanks. Appreciate your response. No a steroid is not contraindicated for swelling. A steroid will not help a ligament tear. It will help decrease inflammation around a nerve irritated by a herniated disc A steroid will not heal a rotator cuff tear. It will decrease inflammation in a patient who has subacromial burstis and rotator cuff tendinitis. In elderly people with rotator cuff tears who do not want surgery or cannot have surgery steroid injections often alleviate their pain. When I say I know of no solid science I mean I have seen no articles in the orthopedic literature (which is what I would read) to support it. I mean really injecting sugar water? How is that going to work? Its a free country. If people want to try it for their tendinopathies fine but to me an epidural injection of sugar water would be inadvisable and I see no possible way for it to help a herniated disc. |
| 2009-10-25 12:54 PM in reply to: #2468029 |
| 1 | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? Hi, I am a physician with 30 years of experince in doing prolotherapy. whether one has 3 months or 10 years of a sprain, proloterhapy works to start healing. This sugar solution attracts the calls that initiate the healing response. It talkes 6 weeks for one session of prolotherpay to work. When I have myself alasting sprained liagement or tendon, prolotherapy is what I get. Now, studies have been done on injecting a prolotherapy solution inside a herniated disc to jump start healing. ONe doen't inject it inot the spinal canal. Dr. Matthews in Pennsylvania and Dr. Eck in California have published studies in the medical literaure. Look up "prolotherapy" on PUBMED (the national library of Medicine website). Look up Dr. Alfredson, an orthopedic surgeon in Sweden who has published a lot He prefers to call it "sclerotherapy" but it does the same thing. Dozens of other studies have been done and published on prolotherapy in well controlled trials for: rotator cuff; tennis elbow, Achilles tendonitis, patellar tendonitis, knee osteoarthritis. The newest editions of the 2 major textbooks on rehabiliation and physcial medicine each have chapters on Prolotherapy. Prolotherapy is now listed in the model curriculum for rehabiliation and physcial medicine. I hope this information dispels some of the rumors about prolotherapy. |
| 2009-10-25 2:42 PM in reply to: #2468029 |
| Member 61 | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? Dear sportdoc: Have you had any cases where you injected a patellar tendon or an achilles tendon and had a lump develop? Just had one injection 7 weeks ago and there's a lump that appears to look like a lipoma. Next appt is in 3 weeks. What should I ask the doctor on the next visit ? Should I be concerned about the lump? It was a partial tear of a tendon confirmed by MRI and ultrasound in his office. The doctor mentioned to exercise but not sure how hard to push. Is exercise contraindicated while healing? Are there any times when prolotherapy isn't really indicated or wouldn't help? Is there a way to know? Cheers. |
| 2009-10-26 1:52 PM in reply to: #2477773 |
| Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? Thanks Socks, have had a lot of conflicting advise over cortisone, will be contacting my sports doc today to get on sorted! Cheers |
| 2009-11-03 9:43 AM in reply to: #2468029 |
New user 21 Southern California | Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? How about one more opinion on all of this? Regarding cortisone for disc problems: Many years ago, I heard a lecture by a spine MD out of San Francisco who outlined a 10 step cascade of chemical events that occur when the disc is damaged. Corticosteroids help control the second or third step, whereas NSAID's only come into play at the ninth step. It is my recollection that he felt corticosteroids can be effective with disc problems, but need to be administered within the first two weeks of injury to have their effect. I would love to hear what "sportdoc" has to say about this, as my information may be outdated. Steroid use in tendons is a controversial subject, since it's over-use can lead to damage of the tendon itself. As imaging has gotten better, we see that the vast majority of tendon problems are degenerative, rather that inflammatory. Cortisone is an anti-inflammatory, so it's efficacy in treating tendonopathy is questionable. The current, emerging treatments focus on stimulating regeneration in degenerative tendons. These include PRP, extra-corporal shock wave therapy, and prolotherapy. There's another technique performed by specially certified physical therapists called ASTYM. It was developed and researched by a sports medicine physician, has studies showing that is does indeed stimulate activity in the fibroblast of (rat hamstring) tendons, and has nationally-derived outcome studies showing success rates of at least 90%. I think ASTYM is so effective because the treatment addresses dysfunction throughout the whole kinetic chain, not just in the local area of pain. Finally, the technique is delivered in the rehab setting, so the tissue will be remodeled appropriately with prescribed exercises and biomechanical corrections. I have a question for sportsdoc. I thought prolotherapy was primarily an agent for sclerosing, and was most appropriate for ligament hyper-mobility. Is the application for tendonopathy theoretical or is there evidence showing that it is a chemical attractant for healing products? Thank you. |
| 2009-11-03 3:44 PM in reply to: #2468029 |
| Subject: RE: Anyone had Prolotherapy for a disk herniation? To be honest, 3 months down, I have given up trying to find a cure for my back now and am going to live with the fact that it may take months to heal and I'll miss the southern hemisphere season. |
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