Set up road bike fit like a tri bike fit

Why don't you just set up your road bike like a road bike?

When you go steep on a road bike, without the skeletal support system of an aero front end, you're going to put a whole host of problems into your hands, arms, and potentially shoulders and neck.

Moving the seat forward on a roadie moves your center of gravity forward relative to the bottom bracket (the base that your core has to work from to hold your weight.

Here's way to illustrate this -- stand with your back against a wall, heels about 18" away from the wall, and then lean forward. No problem, right? Now put your heels against the wall. Lean forward. How far did you get before you fell (or needed to put your hands on something to prevent that fall)? The same principal applies to your road bike set up. As you bring that CG forward, your care has to do a LOT more work to keep the weight off your hands, to the point that it just isn't going to happen.

I guess I wasn't clear.

More simply - I like the idea of all my training being done with the same lower body position, so the leg muscles are being trained how they will be used in a race.

So you want the tri fit on the road bike, presumably w/o aerobars? I think it's probably possible w/ a longer stem and more handlebar drop, but not a great idea. Shifting your weight forward will affect handling and weight distribution on the bike. It might be minor, but the bike is definitely not designed to be setup that way.

As for firing the same muscles, I suspect there's be difference b/c you're not supporting your top half the same way on road bars vs. aerobars. Your hammies and/or back might not like it. But a little trial and error might prove me wrong.

-Jason

yeah, I thought about the CG issues, but I guess I thought (hoped) they'd be negligible. 

Probably should have mentioned this but I didn't think about it: using the competitive cyclist fit guide (I took all my measurements and got the road fit suggestions), my BB to saddle tip set-back is approx 3.4 inches.  My tri bike set back is 3 inches exactly (I have the same seat on both road and tri bike, so saddle length isn't affecting this).  So while I completely understand that 18 inches is a big deal, but 0.4 may not be.  However, this is with an Adamo, which may be stubbier than the average saddle, so the road setback might be closer to a half inch to inch more when measured to the tip of an Adamo.

no it was clear, I suppose what I should have asked is "why?"

Do you think having the same lower body position will "do" something for you?

Many pro's do a majority of their training on a road bike (set up like a road bike)
Fabian Cancella rides primarily on a road bike, and he crushes every TT there is.
A good number of pro's/cyclists ride MTN bikes pretty regularly (which have a much different position than a tri bike) and do fine.

The key isn't setting it up *exactly alike*
The key is having a properly fitting bike... set up how it is designed.

You can do what you are proposing of course, but you will not see a benefit in what I *think* you are doing it for. You will however, make your road bike more dangerous to ride.

(edit) Jordan Rapp's blog, the entry about why Triathletes need a road bike.

Edited by Leegoocrap 2010-08-23 11:14 AM

You mentioned the use of a Fast Forward seat post... That's not an insignificant amount of forward adjustment on a road bike. But if your tri set-back is 3 inches vs 3.4 on your fitted road bike set-up... I'm wondering who fit you.

Okay, hold on... Are you comparing 3 inch set-back with an Adamo to 3.4 with a standard road saddle? That's still huge, because the Adamo set-back is about 1.5" farther back than a road saddle set to the same effective STA.

I think what's more important that maintaining the same seat-to-BB relation is keeping the same thigh-to-torso angle, as your body isn't going to be nearly as horizontal (at least it shouldn't be) on the roadie as it is on the tri rig.

I have an adamo on both bikes.  I used an online fit guide (competitivecyclist.com, often cited in these forums) to get the road fit.  What I realized when typing the response was that the online guide probably assumed a normal saddle.  So the difference would probalby be up to an inch and a half, vs the 0.4 inches I originally said.

I've been experimenting ...you'll be swearing at the road conditions after feeling every crack and pothole. I chose slower time over broken wrist

more or less, yes, that was my thought.  Most of what I've seen in the forums is along the lines of "train like you race".  I.e. if I race with tri geometry, so I should train with it (though I think you clearly disagree with this).  I wanted to see if I could combine the lower body tri geometry with the convenience of a road cockpit that would be better for groups and really hilly rides.  This whole thought stemmed from an awesome ride I just did where I spent maybe 35% of my time in aero because of the hills - steep ups, technical downs, almost no flats.  Easy shifting going up and safer shifting going down/around turns etc would have been nice.  So my thought was I'll probably be repeating the ride, but it probably wouldn't make sense to do it again on my tri bike.  But if I could keep my legs working like they were on a tri bike, all the better, right?



I don't feel dangerous sitting up on a tri bike, even on this ride with the technical downs.  Would a road bike set up in the way I described really be any more dangerous than that? 



ETA: my road bike is was a mess of a set up, after i DIY'ed a poor tri fit on it last year and moved everything all around.  I'm not convinced it was a good road bike fit before that either.  So I guess, I'm saying I need to do some work adjusting it, regardless of what type of fit I put on it.  Doing the tri thing on it is really easy to copy.  Getting a good road fit is harder/more $$.

Edited by jsiegs 2010-08-23 11:58 AM

That will assume that one way is "better" and one is "worse" which isn't the case if both are properly fitted.



Not feeling dangerous sitting up on the tri bike is a good thing. The problem with "rigging" a road bike to be like a tri bike... or for that matter a tri bike to be like a road bike... is that their geometry is not congruent with what you want to accomplish. It's similar to saying a Katana and a butter knife are both blades, so their roles are interchangeable... technically, yes, they are... but you don't really want to be in a duel with a Ninja holding butter knife.



But going to be worth more in the short and long run.

Again, not saying you *can't* do what you propose... but you'll get more comfort/fitness/enjoyment out of a PROPERLY fitted road bike (even at a *different* position... and, if both are properly fitted, the important aspects of the fit will be very similar... it's what the fitter is talking about when they say they are "rotating" you.) then you will with a Frankenstein.

Here's what's getting lost in this discussion: a properly fit road bike should have the same muscle recruitment as a properly fit tri bike.

Contrary to a commonly held belief, tri bikes are NOT designed to save your legs for the run. They are designed to let you get lower in the front without sacrificing power. Power and comfort are primarily impacted by the angle of your torso in relation to your legs, also called hip angle. Most people will self-select an angle of 90-95 degrees. On a road bike, you're sitting back and upright. On a tri bike, you're rotated forward using the pedal as the point of rotation (so keeping the hip angle). To make that happen, you make the seat tube steeper and lower the front end. Again, the muscles don't change. You could be upside down and you'd still be using the same muscles to apply power to the pedals.

This article explains the idea as well as can be done: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/bikefit.html

Can you do it? Yes... but keep in mind that a road bike is not built to be ridden with the majority of your weight forward... it will become twitchy and unstable. For me, that is not a tradeoff I'm willing to accept.