HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!

I like the using zones based on percentage of heart rate range (max-resting) with the 95% of the maximum being taken as the highest observe bpm over hill interval training sets. Remarkably, my training zones line up with yours (my 85%HRR is zone 5a)even though I have different numbers and methods. I'm sold.

:Hey Mike,

This question about recovery rate is really significant to people starting out.  Most people, including me want to know how long to train as well as how hard.  I think the lactate threshhold limit is a measure of peak output and so it more a measure of how hard to train.  The recovery limit is how much energy you can get back in the tank before tomorrow's workout.   The lactate threshhold is a circulatory limit for oxygen transfer.  The recovery limit measures the rate that cells process sugars and fats and so it is more a fuel limit. 

To build endurance, my opinion is that you need to train pretty close to the amount that you can just barely recover from each day.  That limit (a daily recovery limit) is a very individual number that depends on a person's genetics, age and history of conditioning; and it is an essential limit to know for designing a training program.  In my experience the daily recovery limit builds much more gradually with training than the lactate threshhold.  We have to work on it for years before we really maximize our potential for moderately long duration competitions.

So that leads to my question, how would you measure a person's daily recovery limit?

TW

Hi Mike,

I have a question for you that I was planning on asking this in the Performance forum, but it seems appropriate for this thread.

For the Bike LT test, would you say that this can be accurately can be done on a Spinner that's set up reasonably close to my bike? During the winter this will probably be my only option.

Also, I have a run TT scheduled for tomorrow so if your ears start to burn around 8:30pm eastern, you'll know why.

Hi Mike,

I have a question for you that I was planning on asking this in the Performance forum, but it seems appropriate for this thread.

For the Bike LT test, would you say that this can be accurately can be done on a Spinner that's set up reasonably close to my bike? During the winter this will probably be my only option.

Also, I have a run TT scheduled for tomorrow so if your ears start to burn around 8:30pm eastern, you'll know why.

Hey Mike,

About trial and error to find your recovery limit.  Yeah, you have to hit the recovery limit to know where it is.  But, the problem is that most of the time, our workouts are so varied (normally a good thing) that it is hard to quantify what was the pace and distance that was equal to the limit.  Plus, you really don't want to go way past your limit and get hurt or burned out.  I actually do a test where I run (or swim or bike but the same event each day) the same course and distance for a week trying to maintain the same pace each time (my so-called average training pace).  The times begin to increase (for me they always do.  see the last paragraph)  The pace and distance at the end of the week are just a bit over my recovery limit.  I have to design a training program that has days both harder and easier that the one at the end of the week.  It would be interesting to back down the pace to the point that I could actually do it every day for long time to know exactly what my limits are but that would be both boring and impractical as well as a poor training plan.

I think people sometimes mistakenly think their best times should be their average training pace and try to do that effort every day.  Big mistake.  Looking for that sustainable training effort that is matched to the recovery limit is the key for people starting out so that they get into the harness and stay there for a couple of years of steady improvement.

TW

Edited by tech_geezer 2005-08-31 9:17 AM

Hey Mike,

I think this is an excellent thread, too.   Please, Mike (and all others) recognize that I am certainly not criticizing any of your training advice or methods.  I think you are correct that a self test of lactate threshhold is a better indicator of peak output than the max heart rate formula.  By logical extenstion, percentages of the LT, either lab measured or from a self test, are much more accurate training guides those based on the generic maximum heart rate formula.  I am just adding some unsolicited advice of my own to the discussion. 

My point was that both lactate threshhold and maximum heart rate measure peak output.  Some percentage of either number can tell you how fast to train but not how long.  For beginners, I think the right duration is a harder number to pin down than the pace.   My objection to the various programs for beginners that are available is that they don't account for differences in the new athlete's ability to recovery or give the beginner any way to begin to learn his or her limits of recovery.  There is one starting level of intensity and one ramp rate for all to get from couch to sprint or whatever.  If there is any individualizaiton in the program, it is based on the peak output (either max heart rate or LT).  I think you need two very different numbers to individualize a person's training program:  a maximum output and a recovery limit.  I find it useful or at least measurable to characterize the recovery limit in the average pace and duration workout that I can sustain day-after-day.  To refine the measurement technique and eliminate uncorrelated stressors, I do the same run everyday for a week.  Of course, I log every other run/bike/swim for the rest of the year too, but the one that I use for planning purposes comes from the end of the test week.  It helps me to get the ego out of the training plan. 

 I recommend this test to my beginner friends with the caution that they start with 3 or 4 days of week of walk/run and gradually add a day every week or so to get to a 6 or 7 days straight before trying it.   The important thing is to find your limit and start building on it and not go way past it and get hurt.  So, easy does it guys and gals. 

I find that the morning heart rate number is not too informative for me for overtraining.  It fluctuates too much with the randomness of the waking process.  These fluctuations are just as big as ones for onset of overtraining.  I used to keep track of the orthostatic heart rate jump (change in heart rate from lying to standing) in the morning.  This seemed to be a more accurate measure of recovery.   It is an annoyance to take 10 minutes out of the morning routine to do it.  If you can't do it every day, then the trends are just not apparent.  I haven't done it in several months.

Something that I actually do monitor (because it is so easy with my particular HRM) is the calories of exercise per week from the heart rate monitor.   From experience, I know that 3400-3600 calories per week from the Polar formula is pretty close to my overtraining limit.  Your mileage may vary.  Not everybody has one of the fancier heart rate monitors that computes calories.  The total minutes of training times 10 is pretty close for me for calories.

Interesting discussion.  Thank you Mike for providing your experience and a free bit of professional coaching for the members here.  Most of the people here, including me, are completely self-coached, not even any high school training to fall back on.   It makes a world of difference to get some well-thought out training advice.

Have a great day.  I gotta get some work done.

TW