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2012-11-14 7:28 PM

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Subject: Obama global warming statements today

I know we have a lot of people here who are firm believers in the global warming stuff so I'm curious what you guys think of the Presidents statements today. 

"What we do know is the temperature around the globe is increasing faster than was predicted even 10 years ago. We do know that the Arctic ice cap is melting faster than was predicted even five years ago. We do know that there have been extraordinarily — there have been an extraordinarily large number of severe weather events here in North America, but also around the globe.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-i-am-a-firm-believer-that-climate-change-is-real

I am an admitted skeptic of the catastrophic consequences and the level of influence man has on global warming but I find the Presidents statements to be a little propagandist in nature.  I know he's not going to cite a source in his responses, but were his statements even true?

On the heels of climategate and data showing a much slower rate of warming than expected I find it hard to believe everything is going "faster than predicted"

Now don't get me wrong,  people can study and believe in global warming all they want, but there's no doubt in my mind there's going to be a bunch of new regulations and spending by Obama to pay off his enviro buddies.  This is where I get ticked off.



2012-11-14 7:41 PM
in reply to: #4498673

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

The rest of the world spend a great deal of time criticising and mocking the Americans and the Chinese for various reasons like your cookie leaders and bizarre international policies -  but I can tell you straight up that the biggest fear we have is the denial or doubt on both your counts of global warning.  We know you have the power to kill us all and that freaks us the hell out - because if you don't both do something then we might as well sit on the stoop and wait for the inevitable

 

2012-11-14 8:33 PM
in reply to: #4498688

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Dan-L - 2012-11-14 7:41 PM

The rest of the world spend a great deal of time criticising and mocking the Americans and the Chinese for various reasons like your cookie leaders and bizarre international policies -  but I can tell you straight up that the biggest fear we have is the denial or doubt on both your counts of global warning.  We know you have the power to kill us all and that freaks us the hell out - because if you don't both do something then we might as well sit on the stoop and wait for the inevitable

 

I'm sorry.....but....what?

2012-11-14 8:39 PM
in reply to: #4498688

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Dan-L - 2012-11-14 7:41 PM

The rest of the world spend a great deal of time criticising and mocking the Americans and the Chinese for various reasons like your cookie leaders and bizarre international policies -  but I can tell you straight up that the biggest fear we have is the denial or doubt on both your counts of global warning.  We know you have the power to kill us all and that freaks us the hell out - because if you don't both do something then we might as well sit on the stoop and wait for the inevitable

 

So are you saying you believe in global warming?

2012-11-14 8:41 PM
in reply to: #4498673

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

Denying global warming despite strong science to the contrary....hmmm, kinda liking trusting your gut or polls pointing in your favor versus using solid statistical analysis.

2012-11-14 8:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Sounds like someone is getting ready to invest in some Green Energy companies!  This should turn out great, why haven't we thought of this before!  And create some jobs as well.  Man Im so excited!Wink


2012-11-14 9:01 PM
in reply to: #4498735

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
ejshowers - 2012-11-14 6:41 PM

Denying global warming despite strong science to the contrary....hmmm, kinda liking trusting your gut or polls pointing in your favor versus using solid statistical analysis.

I thought that they changed it from Global Warming to Climate Change?

I am surprised to hear anyone say they deny climate change is happening, or even global warming for that matter.  I think the evidence on that is pretty clear.

I also firmly believe that human beings contribute to climate change.

What I don't think is so clear is how much of it is man made.

Carbon emissions aren't good, well except for plants, they would die without it.

2012-11-14 9:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
ejshowers - 2012-11-14 8:41 PM

Denying global warming despite strong science to the contrary....hmmm, kinda liking trusting your gut or polls pointing in your favor versus using solid statistical analysis.

I see what you did there.  (and of course all of the scientific polls were 100% accurate on election night)

So are you saying Obama's statements were based on science fact and not GW propaganda?  If so, could you please point out the study?  I can't find it.

Couple of my favorite quotes on the subject:

"I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." - Al Gore

"It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true." -Paul Watson (Founder Greenpeace)

2012-11-14 9:59 PM
in reply to: #4498673

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
We could debate the merits of climate change and what man is or isn't contributing... but the fact is, it is totally irrelevant. With 4 more years, Obama will enact his "legacy" legislation. And what that means is taxes. He will implement tougher regulations to push coal out. He will subsidize the entire wind and solar industry. And he will more than likely implement a carbon tax to raise revenue.
2012-11-14 10:04 PM
in reply to: #4498688

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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Dan-L - 2012-11-14 6:41 PM

The rest of the world spend a great deal of time criticising and mocking the Americans and the Chinese for various reasons like your cookie leaders and bizarre international policies -  but I can tell you straight up that the biggest fear we have is the denial or doubt on both your counts of global warning.  We know you have the power to kill us all and that freaks us the hell out - because if you don't both do something then we might as well sit on the stoop and wait for the inevitable

 

Please. We have a nuclear arsenal that could destroy the world 5 times over... that would actually kill you, yet that has not happened.

Global warming isn't "killing" anyone. There will be shifts in population, either from what we do, or what Mother Nature does. Populations will grow and shrink for a very long time. There have been 5 mass extinctions in the planet's time, and there will be more. We inhabit the entire globe and that isn't going anywhere. When it is all said and done Yellowstone will kill us off and you should be good, and then the Sun will swallow us up.

2012-11-14 10:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

“But we haven’t done as much as we need to. So what I’m going to be doing over the next several weeks, next several months, is having a conversation... what more can we do to make short-term progress .... and then working through an education process that I think is necessary, a discussion, the conversation across the country about, you know, what realistically can we do long term to make sure that this is not something we’re passing on to future generations that’s going to be very expensive and very painful to deal with.”


Shame he wasn't talking about the deficit or government spending.



2012-11-14 10:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
tuwood - 2012-11-14 10:04 PM
ejshowers - 2012-11-14 8:41 PM

Denying global warming despite strong science to the contrary....hmmm, kinda liking trusting your gut or polls pointing in your favor versus using solid statistical analysis.

I see what you did there.  (and of course all of the scientific polls were 100% accurate on election night)

So are you saying Obama's statements were based on science fact and not GW propaganda?  If so, could you please point out the study?  I can't find it.

Couple of my favorite quotes on the subject:

"I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." - Al Gore

"It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true." -Paul Watson (Founder Greenpeace)

Yo Tony, GW doesn't need "propaganda," it's fact.  The planet is warming rapidly.  Of course, the tough part of the issue is, how much of it is due to humanity?  Can we do anything about it?  Can we do anything about it that will be fiscally responsible?  They're all good questions in my opinion.

Personally, I'd like to see our government hedge its bets.  The answer lies somewhere in between the GOP (GW? who cares attitude) and the Dems (save the Earth, it's on the brink of disaster!) extremes.  This is a perfect issue to find compromise on. (in my opinion)

btw, we'd probably be a bit more nervous about this issue if we lived below sea level...or out on an ocean island.

2012-11-14 11:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Let us not forget that global warming isn't always a bad thing.
2012-11-14 11:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Me, I look at my daughter and think how sad that we F*&^% up this planet so bad that she may never get to see grandkids.  In my opinion man has ruined this planet and we will continue to the point of no return.
2012-11-15 12:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

The Earth will take care of itself, no matter how arrogant man is to think he can affect it's course.

Climate change?  You mean like before man was even here?

I'm always amused and amazed at the people in today's world who somehow think they are witnessing something in this planet that is unique to our time.  They need to get over themselves.....this is nothing new to the Earth.  

Climate change is, in fact, a constant for billions of years.  

As far as Man vs. Earth...............sure, we're in the drivers seat....you know, we've been here sooooo long. Laughing



Edited by Left Brain 2012-11-15 12:27 AM
2012-11-15 1:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Sounds like it's time for cap and trade 2.0.


2012-11-15 1:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

mdg2003 - 2012-11-15 1:36 AM Sounds like it's time for cap and trade 2.0.

Yeah, Kerry and Lieberman......they might be astronauts. Laughing

2012-11-15 7:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

Timely article worth reading.  Latest studies show global temps have not risen for the last 16years.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html

2012-11-15 7:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
Ever read the book State of Fear?
2012-11-15 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

crusevegas - 2012-11-14 10:13 PM Let us not forget that global warming isn't always a bad thing.

true dat!  imagine the reaction if it was reverse...global cooling!

2012-11-15 8:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

no doubt there is global warming, climate change, whatever you want to call it.  IMO, it is pretty arrogant to believe that humans are really going to change the earth as much as the alarmist say we will because of greenhouse gases.  The world climate has always fluctuated...I think mans impact has very little relevance.

With saying that, I do believe we have a responsibilty to take care of the planet, recycle, consumption, etc. However, I find a lot of hypocracy with the whole climate change thing...kind of like an old neighbor a few years ago trying to get me to watch an "Inconvenient Truth"  while he was driving a Hummer and his wife a Tahoe...and not recycling.  Yell

 



2012-11-15 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
ejshowers - 2012-11-14 9:41 PM

Denying global warming despite strong science to the contrary....hmmm, kinda liking trusting your gut or polls pointing in your favor versus using solid statistical analysis.

I think we have different definitions of "strong science", if by global warming you mean anthropogenic climate change.  When you study ~ 400 or less out of the last 4,000,000,000 years, or 1/10,000,000 or the earth's climate history, then make predictions based on models without any ability to design controlled experiments to prove your hypothesis, calling it strong science is a little misleading.

2012-11-15 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today

I was suspicious about there even being any climate change until I saw these charts that show that the normal temperatures have increased in every state over a 10 year period. That at least shows the climate is warming. 

http://serfcjournal.apps.gov/files/2011/09/Pix127-800x600.jpg

So, are we just coming-out of an ice age, going through a warm spell, or is it caused by our release of gasses into the air, or is it that the sun is going through a warm spell.  There are a number of possible causes of the temperature increases.

The question I ask is should we tie clean air/water standards and water preservation to climate change?  Shouldn't we just do that either way.  "This stuff makes the air nasty. Maybe we should get something that is cleaner."  Do we need to tie it to climate change?

I liken it to invading Iraq because we probably could've done so for regime change alone, but instead, we wanted the WMD support for the mission.  When there's only chemical weapons and not a massive WMD program, the whole thing is a debacle. If the climate has 10 years of cooling, your argument goes out the window. 

 

 

2012-11-15 8:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
GomesBolt - 2012-11-15 9:45 AM

I was suspicious about there even being any climate change until I saw these charts that show that the normal temperatures have increased in every state over a 10 year period. That at least shows the climate is warming. 

http://serfcjournal.apps.gov/files/2011/09/Pix127-800x600.jpg

So, are we just coming-out of an ice age, going through a warm spell, or is it caused by our release of gasses into the air, or is it that the sun is going through a warm spell.  There are a number of possible causes of the temperature increases.

The question I ask is should we tie clean air/water standards and water preservation to climate change?  Shouldn't we just do that either way.  "This stuff makes the air nasty. Maybe we should get something that is cleaner."  Do we need to tie it to climate change?

I liken it to invading Iraq because we probably could've done so for regime change alone, but instead, we wanted the WMD support for the mission.  When there's only chemical weapons and not a massive WMD program, the whole thing is a debacle. If the climate has 10 years of cooling, your argument goes out the window. 

 

 

CO2 does not make the air nasty it is a natural byproduct of many things including respiration.  It is also essential in photosynthesis by plants and algae.  Another huge "greenhouse gas" is water vapor btw not really nasty unless you live in FL in the summer.

2012-11-15 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Obama global warming statements today
GomesBolt - 2012-11-15 6:45 AM

I was suspicious about there even being any climate change until I saw these charts that show that the normal temperatures have increased in every state over a 10 year period. That at least shows the climate is warming. 

http://serfcjournal.apps.gov/files/2011/09/Pix127-800x600.jpg

So, are we just coming-out of an ice age, going through a warm spell, or is it caused by our release of gasses into the air, or is it that the sun is going through a warm spell.  There are a number of possible causes of the temperature increases.

The question I ask is should we tie clean air/water standards and water preservation to climate change?  Shouldn't we just do that either way.  "This stuff makes the air nasty. Maybe we should get something that is cleaner."  Do we need to tie it to climate change?

I liken it to invading Iraq because we probably could've done so for regime change alone, but instead, we wanted the WMD support for the mission.  When there's only chemical weapons and not a massive WMD program, the whole thing is a debacle. If the climate has 10 years of cooling, your argument goes out the window. 

Because the people will support the elimination of a threat, because we've been taught to fear them.

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