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2012-12-26 2:01 AM

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Subject: Gun permit holders published

And so the backlash begins. As a non gun owner I'd be interested to see how gun owners feel about this please.

http://us.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html?hpt=hp_t3



2012-12-26 5:16 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
On multiple boards they've published the full names, addresses, tax assessments, phone numbers, cell numbers, and every other public record of all the publishers, editors and writers of that paper. "After all, it's public records..."


I wonder how many women who have moved away from abusive spouses and tried to keep their whereabouts hidden from those who have beaten them now must move again.

I further wonder if the paper feels any inclination on helping those women they've endangered relocate.

2012-12-26 5:19 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Freedom of press. As those who oppose gun control point out, you can't pick and choose which inalienable rights you like.
2012-12-26 5:20 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
To keep going on that theme, how many judges now have their home addresses published? What about cops who have made drug arrests? Do the DAs like having their personal information published?

Then again, I'm laughing at all the personal information about the publishers I'm reading. People are starting in on schools for their kids, tax returns from public records, driving records, car types, donations. If it's right to publish public records, theirs are fair game as well.

2012-12-26 5:21 AM
in reply to: #4547975

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:19 AM

Freedom of press. As those who oppose gun control point out, you can't pick and choose which inalienable rights you like.


Tell that to anyone who gets killed with a protective order in her hand.

2012-12-26 5:59 AM
in reply to: #4547977

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
DanielG - 2012-12-26 6:21 AM

pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:19 AM

Freedom of press. As those who oppose gun control point out, you can't pick and choose which inalienable rights you like.


Tell that to anyone who gets killed with a protective order in her hand.



Or tell the parent of a murdered 6 year old that it's perfectly OK to own a clone of a military assault rifle.


2012-12-26 6:07 AM
in reply to: #4547984

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:59 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 6:21 AM

pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:19 AM

Freedom of press. As those who oppose gun control point out, you can't pick and choose which inalienable rights you like.


Tell that to anyone who gets killed with a protective order in her hand.



Or tell the parent of a murdered 6 year old that it's perfectly OK to own a clone of a military assault rifle.


Yeah, with a $200 tax and a 6 month background check by the ATF, a clause waiving your 4th amendment right to search to ensure proper storage and the signature of your local Sheriff or Police Chief and you can own one. You cannot use it except at a range and most states it's even illegal to use it in self defense of home.

Perhaps you're not aware of the federal laws for owning a clone of a military assault rifle but there they are.


2012-12-26 6:40 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.



Edited by powerman 2012-12-26 6:41 AM
2012-12-26 6:55 AM
in reply to: #4547976

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

DanielG - 2012-12-26 4:20 AM To keep going on that theme, how many judges now have their home addresses published? What about cops who have made drug arrests? Do the DAs like having their personal information published? Then again, I'm laughing at all the personal information about the publishers I'm reading. People are starting in on schools for their kids, tax returns from public records, driving records, car types, donations. If it's right to publish public records, theirs are fair game as well.

I can say here in Denver, CO, names/addresses of Cops are removed from any records provided to the public.  It is part of a law to protect them.  Of course you can map those addresses you get and figure out who is a special person by those properties without an address/name.

2012-12-26 6:57 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

Random thoughts.

- As a non gun owner I'd be concerned that I've just been outed as a defenseless target.

- As a gun owner I'd feel a bit more secure knowing that perhaps I'd be less of an attractive target to thieves. However I'd feel more inclined to keep the guns locked in a safe.

- These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?

2012-12-26 7:19 AM
in reply to: #4548015

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
velocomp - 2012-12-26 7:55 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 4:20 AM To keep going on that theme, how many judges now have their home addresses published? What about cops who have made drug arrests? Do the DAs like having their personal information published? Then again, I'm laughing at all the personal information about the publishers I'm reading. People are starting in on schools for their kids, tax returns from public records, driving records, car types, donations. If it's right to publish public records, theirs are fair game as well.

I can say here in Denver, CO, names/addresses of Cops are removed from any records provided to the public.  It is part of a law to protect them.  Of course you can map those addresses you get and figure out who is a special person by those properties without an address/name.



Yeah, that one bothers me too. "Some pigs are more equal than others" - George Orwell. That's wrong.





2012-12-26 7:23 AM
in reply to: #4548018

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM

These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?



For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is.

Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

2012-12-26 7:29 AM
in reply to: #4548033

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.

2012-12-26 7:44 AM
in reply to: #4548038

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
gr33n - 2012-12-26 8:29 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.



Somehow, this guy in Rochester who served 17 years for murdering his grandmother with a hammer got a hold of a Bushmaster 223.

So yeah, we need to seriously rethink either what types of guns we sell or who they're sold to and how.
2012-12-26 7:47 AM
in reply to: #4548018

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM

Random thoughts.

- As a non gun owner I'd be concerned that I've just been outed as a defenseless target.

- As a gun owner I'd feel a bit more secure knowing that perhaps I'd be less of an attractive target to thieves. However I'd feel more inclined to keep the guns locked in a safe.

- These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?

The thought that a thief is somehow going to take the time to research who has a gun or not and which house to hit or not bluntly makes me laugh.  Have you seen a vast majority of these 'criminals'.  I use quotes because they are just idiots who see an opportunity and go for it.

I would love to speak to the thief that chose to go one house over because there was a sign that said, Dog here or Gun owner lives here.  Really?

2012-12-26 7:51 AM
in reply to: #4548033

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
DanielG - 2012-12-26 8:23 AM

gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM

These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?



For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is.

Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.



Whoops, 157 million NICS checks, 976 thousand denials from 1998 to 2012

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-shee...


2012-12-26 7:54 AM
in reply to: #4548038

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
gr33n - 2012-12-26 6:29 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.

But in general, if you are a prohibited person... you know it and don't bother filling out the paperwork. I'm sure those that were turned down probably did not know they had a problem. Who knows.



Edited by powerman 2012-12-26 7:57 AM
2012-12-26 7:54 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
As anyone might be able to tell from my recent posts in any of the gun-related threads, I'm not a guns-rights advocate... But I AM a privacy advocate, and this really appalls me... I suppose technically it's "free speech", but I think it's a really bad idea, and not sure what they are hoping to gain in publishing such a list. Sheer stupidity....

2012-12-26 7:55 AM
in reply to: #4548046

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:44 AM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 8:29 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.

Somehow, this guy in Rochester who served 17 years for murdering his grandmother with a hammer got a hold of a Bushmaster 223. So yeah, we need to seriously rethink either what types of guns we sell or who they're sold to and how.

In that situation, anyone that wants to be a sniper can use a regular old bolt action .30-06 and do much more damage. I seem to remember one in Texas. But obviuoly the color black and a bayonet lug are bigger things to consider.



Edited by powerman 2012-12-26 7:56 AM
2012-12-26 7:56 AM
in reply to: #4548049

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Marvarnett - 2012-12-26 2:47 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM

Random thoughts.

- As a non gun owner I'd be concerned that I've just been outed as a defenseless target.

- As a gun owner I'd feel a bit more secure knowing that perhaps I'd be less of an attractive target to thieves. However I'd feel more inclined to keep the guns locked in a safe.

- These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?

The thought that a thief is somehow going to take the time to research who has a gun or not and which house to hit or not bluntly makes me laugh.  Have you seen a vast majority of these 'criminals'.  I use quotes because they are just idiots who see an opportunity and go for it.

I would love to speak to the thief that chose to go one house over because there was a sign that said, Dog here or Gun owner lives here.  Really?

Well maybe not research, but perhaps they're all not as stupid as you think either. I live in Madrid, so cant really speak for what its like in the US. My house was just burgled 2 weeks ago, so have the 'good fortune' of learning just how it usually works here. Houses with fierce dogs in sight are mostly avoided or the dogs have their throats cut. Most breakins here occur when no one is home. Houses with alarm systems that are advertised on the outside of the house are more often avoided than not. Most neighborhoods and houses are scouted prior to being broken into. And way more often than not the thieves are only interested in cash. That said, maybe its a different criminal mindset over here....

2012-12-26 8:01 AM
in reply to: #4548049

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Marvarnett - 2012-12-26 6:47 AM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM

Random thoughts.

- As a non gun owner I'd be concerned that I've just been outed as a defenseless target.

- As a gun owner I'd feel a bit more secure knowing that perhaps I'd be less of an attractive target to thieves. However I'd feel more inclined to keep the guns locked in a safe.

- These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?

The thought that a thief is somehow going to take the time to research who has a gun or not and which house to hit or not bluntly makes me laugh.  Have you seen a vast majority of these 'criminals'.  I use quotes because they are just idiots who see an opportunity and go for it.

I would love to speak to the thief that chose to go one house over because there was a sign that said, Dog here or Gun owner lives here.  Really?

Obviously you have neve rheard interviews of ex thieves... yes really. There are 20 houses down the street that do not have  them. These are crimes of opportunity as you say... and there are plenty of better opportunities besides ones with signs warning of alarms, dogs and guns. Most burglars say the only thing you need is a yappy dog and storm windows. No point in bothering with them.



2012-12-26 8:06 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
My response is somewhat the same as when Anonymous posted all the Westboro Baptist church members addresses.... "so what".  It's all public record, so if someone really wanted it they'd be able to get it anyway.  If someone wants to know if I have a gun, I'm more than happy to tell them.  I'm not hiding anything nor am I paranoid enough to think someone is coming after me.
2012-12-26 8:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:51 PM
DanielG - 2012-12-26 8:23 AM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.
Whoops, 157 million NICS checks, 976 thousand denials from 1998 to 2012 http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet[/QUOTE]

.6% seems like kind of a low number to me.

2012-12-26 8:12 AM
in reply to: #4548060

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 8:55 AM

pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:44 AM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 8:29 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.

Somehow, this guy in Rochester who served 17 years for murdering his grandmother with a hammer got a hold of a Bushmaster 223. So yeah, we need to seriously rethink either what types of guns we sell or who they're sold to and how.

In that situation, anyone that wants to be a sniper can use a regular old bolt action .30-06 and do much more damage. I seem to remember one in Texas. But obviuoly the color black and a bayonet lug are bigger things to consider.



Not the issue here. How did this guy who SERVED A MURDER SENTENCE get a gun?

Something is seriously not working with what we have now!

Edited by pitt83 2012-12-26 8:13 AM
2012-12-26 8:15 AM
in reply to: #4548082

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 8:12 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 8:55 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:44 AM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 8:29 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.

Somehow, this guy in Rochester who served 17 years for murdering his grandmother with a hammer got a hold of a Bushmaster 223. So yeah, we need to seriously rethink either what types of guns we sell or who they're sold to and how.

In that situation, anyone that wants to be a sniper can use a regular old bolt action .30-06 and do much more damage. I seem to remember one in Texas. But obviuoly the color black and a bayonet lug are bigger things to consider.

Not the issue here. How did this guy who SERVED A MURDER SENTENCE get a gun?

Valid question Pitt,

I'm only finding questions and guesses on that right now. Maybe the reporters took the day off yesterday.

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