Jeff's Long Course Group - (Open)

Hi,
My name is Michelle. I am 47 years old and would describe myself as a beer slurping football watching couch potato (well sometimes). I enjoyed exercise when I was younger, but over the last twenty years and two children have struggled to lose weight and get healthy. I have felt mostly defeated until a friend told me about the Pocono Endurance challenge on September 7th. And I am all in, although I may die. I am so new so as to not even know what I don't know. I have no idea what any of the acronyms are (HIM? IM?) I am married (15 years) with two children ages 14 and 7 (so really I don't drink that much, but I do love to eat.)
The endurance challenge consists of 14.5 miles of biking, 11 miles of canoeing and three miles of running, I don't know if that counts as long distance. So far, I can run for about two minutes straight. But, I wake up every morning at 4:40 to be out the door by five. I run/walk for forty-five minutes and have progressed from running for one minute, walking two minutes to running for 90 seconds. I don't know why, since I suck at it, but I love it. If I can, I go again at night. Yesterday, I added in biking. I am also trying to work on my core. I have changed my vocabulary, so I don't work out anymore, I train and I don't diet, I eat for fuel. Silly, but it makes me feel better. I want to be healthy and strong. I am trying to shift the focus from the way I look. I am using goals and rewards to motivate myself. So when I can run a full mile, I have promised myself new running pants. That type of thing. Although I am not focused on body image (okay, trying not to) I do know that losing weight will help to be healthy, so am hoping to drop between twenty and thirty pounds. Healthy and strong are the goals.
I came to this forum because my knees have started to hurt. They have been like a Rice Krispie theme song for awhile, (snap! crackle! pop!) and have sometimes been stiff but they feel pretty bad now. I think it may have been the biking, since I felt as though they were better when I was running. I am not quitting. But I am a little worried. Is there something I can do?
Also, I am really tired these past two or three days. Is it from biking or running twice a day? Just so you know, I won't look until tomorrow, because I went out on the bike this morning and I am determined to walk/run again tonight. It makes me so happy. So will my body adjust?
Finally, am I totally crazy? I can do this in 96 days, right? I mean, I have seven hours to finish the challenge. It looks as though it is for trained athletes and people like me.
Well, thanks for listening to my ramble. I hope this is okay.

Hi Michelle,

Glad to hear you found BT and hopefully are getting some good advice on here. As for the acronyms, HIM = Half Ironman and IM = Ironman. Typically long course is considered anything HIM distance or longer. The Pocono Endurance Challenge sounds like it is an adventure race, since it doesn't follow the typical swim/bike/run pattern.
What is your goal for the PEC? Are you just looking to finish in under a certain time, or do you actually have a hidden goal? If your goal is just to finish, then, yes, you are ready. If you are trying to hit a certain time, then you probably need more work on the bike and canoeing. As for the knee pain, I would recommend making sure your fit on the bike is good. If your seat is too low, that can cause a lot of knee pain after and during riding.
Also, are you doing anything for upper body strength. You need to make sure you are not underestimating the 11 miles of canoeing. A good exercise for body upper body strength and cardio would be getting on the rowing egrometer at the gym.
Good luck with training and the race.

Thanks for getting back to me. Initially my goal was to just finish, period. Although, really I would like to do well. I'm just not really sure what well is. Also, I am suppose to be part of a team, but right now I am the only one consistently working out, for various reasons. So, I'm not sure about the timing yet. I have started working out with free weights, doing exercises I remember from when I was younger. I haven't joined a gym yet, although I have been thinking about it, especially since no one is interested in running with me (walk/running - still working on that) at 5 in the morning. After reading through a lot of this site, I feel a little foolish. This seems like nothing compared to what a triathlon is. But for me it will be a stretch.
I will look into checking the seat setting on my bike. I love riding, and I'm going to try for eight miles this weekend. I know that doesn't sound like much, but it is a lot further then my couch. I feel that I will be able to do the bike. I am worried about the canoe, although everyone keeps saying it is downstream. After hearing your advice, I think I will join the gym, if only to use the rower.
As hard as it has been, and sometimes demoralizing, I am somewhat addicted.
One more question, if you don't mind. I read a lot about rest days. I can understand why they are important, but do you have to have total rest days? For instance, if I don't run one day, can't I bike? Or can I try working out with free weights? Or is it a total down day. I'm afraid of those days. I don't want to lose what I have going, even if it is only a little over a week.
Thank you for getting back to me.

First off. I think you need to stop putting yourself down and comparing to what others on this site have done. Yes, my weekend long ride is longer than yours. But when I first started I could barely run a mile and would only bike for about 45mins. So we all have to start somewhere. I think a gym would be a great idea for you if you can afford the cost, as it will put you around like minded people and potentially give you other people to workout with. Most gyms offer spin classes as well, so you can get involved in one of those and they will help improve your cycling.

A rest day should technically be a day of total rest or very light activity. And by light activity I would recommend something like yoga. For someone like you who is new to training I would definitely recommend a day off at least every 2 weeks, if not every week. As your fitness improves and your training and goals are redefined, you can change that up. But your body is preforming activities that they are unaccustomed too, so they need the recovery period.

Hello,

I would like to join your group.

My name is Stephan, I'm a husband and a dad of 5. The kids range from 19-13

I'm 40 and have gotten back into triathlons this year. I have been running for the last severl years, but not racing. Last summer as I was creeping up on the big 40 I decided I would like to run my first marathon so I trained for and completed my first triathlon in 2013. The race got me wanting to compete in triathlons again so over the winter i picked up a bike and started training. I have already completed an Oly in May, have another in two weeks and my A race is going to be Ironman 70.3 Racine, WI in July. This will be my first 70.3 and I'm totally stoked!!

I thought that this would be the pinacle of my racing due to family, work, and time constraints but to my surprise my wife is encouraging me to do a full iron distance race in the future! That is something that I've always thought would be incredible to do, but didn't think she would appreciate it due to the training time required. I'm going to see how the 70.3 goes and make up my mind from there.

Edited by ARtridad74 2014-06-07 8:39 PM

Hi Stephan,

I've heard good things about Racine 70.3. And doing an Ironman brand race is definitely a positive for your first one. I've done both WTC and non-WTC races and the professionalism and crowd support you get with WTC is amazing.

I think you will find that Ironman training is that much harder than half IM training. While your runs for HIM training are likely 12-13 miles at longest, you will never get close to at 26.2.

Glad to have you in the group. Let me know if you have specific questions and I will try to get over to your log to inspire.

Jeff I do have a question. I'm relatively new to biking and don't have any friends that are cyclist so I'm not familiar with a lot of the technical aspects of cycling. How do I go about determining my HR zones for the bike? I'm very familiar with how to manage my HR on runs, but am now learning that it's not the same on the bike.

Thank you for the warm welcome to the group! I had decided on the Ironman Racine for two reasons I knew it would be well run with their expertise and we have family that live in the Milwaukee area.

I don't konw if I added it earlier, but we are from Arkansas.

Thanks,

Stephan

Hi Stephan,

So determining HR for both the run and bike are similar. You can do a 30 min time trial and take the average of the last 20 min of that 30 min time trial and your LT. Then for bike zones you can use the following. These are from Joel Friel. Another good test is do a 40k time trial. This is a little better to determine HR zones for long distance training.

Zone 1 Less than 81% of LTHR
Zone 2 81% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 93% of LTHR
Zone 4 94% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

And I assumed you were from Arkansas from your screen name.

Jeff I have a question about race day nutrition. As I prepare for my upcoming HIM that I should consume approx 4-5 calories /kg of body weight per hour on the bike and 2-3 calories /kg per hour on the run. Do you follow that as a general guide? I weigh 155#. That would have me consuming approx 315cal/hr bike and 175cal/hr on the run.

I have been using gels on my long days and recently tried bonk breakers w gels on a long bike but have only been consuming no more than 100-125cal/hr.

I have a long bike then run brick this weekend. How much would you suggest increasing my intake to see what my system can handle? I haven't had any GI issues in training or in the marathon or tris that I've done so far.

Be the end of the races I have been completely wiped out and am wondering if I increase my calorie intake if that would help me to finish stronger.

Thanks for any input

Stephan

Stephan,

Well the very vague answer is nutrition is very different from person to person. I've never calculated my nutrition based on the suggested intakes. You may start the training cycle at 160lbs, but by race day be down to 150lbs. Does this mean that every pound you lose you have to adjust your nutritional needs? I would play around and find out what works for you. Some people can eat a sandwich on the bike and be totally fine. Others will only drink liquids to get there calories. I finally figured out what worked for me after 4 HIM. I typically drink 1 bottle of gatorade per hour and take a GU every 45 mins on the bike. Then I drink whatever is at the aid stations on the run, usually switching between sports drink and water depending on how I feel. I will also take a salt tablet twice on the bike and once on the run.

Hope this helps a little.

I did a nutrition test on my long ride today. I rode 2hr 40min, I took a gel before I started and then took one every 45min plus I had a bottle of Gatorade every 1.5 hr and I had half a BonkBreaker at the end of hr 1 and 2. I didn't have any GI issues. I will continue to work it out from here. Thanks
Stephan

Keep in mind that nutrition will change with changes in weather. The hotter and more humid it gets, the higher your water and electrolyte intake will need to be.
Also, when intensity increases (i.e. races) your body will process nutrition differently. So make sure you try some workouts when you are simulating race conditions and definitely do one with a brick workout.
Jeff

I'm doing a tri this weekend that has 1000m swim, 19mi bike, and 4mi run so I will have to wait until next weekend to do my next long brick

I did a sprint this weekend that had 1000yd swim, 19mi bike, and 4mi run and got my first trip to the podium!! I won the m 40-44 with a time of 1hr 47mim and 46

Congrats. That's a fairly long sprint. First time on the podium is great. Winning the AG, even better.

I definitely need to work on my swim!! I felt the best mentally all the way through the race but need to work on my speed. My swim split was 21:23 for 1000 yards

For most people, the swim is the weakest. You just need to make sure you put in adequate time in the water. A lot of times triathletes will skip the swim workout because it's there least favorite. Make swimming a priority if you really want to get better.

Jeff,
In my race this weekend my HR was fairly high all the way through the bike, I wasn't concerned because I knew I would
Still have enough left to run the 4mi for that short of a race.

In my upcoming HIM next month do you suggest takin my very easy on the first few miles on the bike to let my HR recover before trying to ride my normal pace? I want to be able to keep it low enough to have a good run when I get done w the bike.

Well, remember that HR is just one of many tools that can be used to judge exertion. Now during a shorter race, your HR will typically be higher than during a longer race (i.e. HIM). Let me ask you this. Do you have target HR training zones for both the bike and the run? Remember that HR can be artificially high due to lack of sleep, caffeine, excitement, etc...

On the bike I like to keep my average HR around 130-135 for my long rides and on the run I try to keep it around 145.

This weekend my average on the bike was 148 and 156 for the run

The run was really high due to the fact that it was an extremely hilly run course, two significant hills per loop. The bike was no more hilly than what I typically ride. I am sure it was higher due to excitement from the race.

How did you come about those numbers? What are they based off?

For my long rides I try to keep my HR 130-135, and for my long runs I like to keep my average around 140-145. For the tri this weekend by bike average was 148 and the run average was 156. I knew my run average would be higher due to it being a very hilly course with two hard pulls per loop

Yes, but how did you come upon those ranges? They just seem very arbitrary. Have you ever done LT test? I'd assume your threshold is higher than you expect based on your previous race.