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Voter ID
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 2016-08-16 9:56 AM |
Champion  10157    Alabama |  Subject: Voter IDI can't believe in this day and age we still have people who don't have a photo ID. Remember in Iraq when they had elections....the people would get purple ink on their finger to ensure they only voted once. Surely we can do better. Maybe if you don't have ID they fingerprint and/or photograph you so they can verify you only voted once after the election. It's also interesting that the voter ID laws only gets challenged in certain states. You have to show your ID in my state.....and you have to be registered and you have to sign a roster. The argument that 'there is no voter fraud' is ridiculous. If you vote anonymously there is no way to prove voter fraud. Here is how it would work, I will pay you $50 for every vote you cast. I will give you the name of a registered voter (who died or is out of the country or who has never voted) and you go vote in their name. Then you come back and get another name and I'll give you another $50 and you go to a different polling place and vote using that name. Anyway, just seems like with modern technology we ought to be able to confirm the identity of those who want to vote. I also find it amusing that laws that were enacted in 2013 (like in NC) were not challenged in court until last month....just before the election. That pretty much speaks for itself. |
| 2016-08-16 10:27 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Master 2802  Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Voter ID So I am going to risk big fines and up to 5 years in prison for $50 and have to travel around to vote in different spots and you have to find someone of my sex in each of those spots that is on the polls but will not show up for some reason? Ridiculous obviously. That is why voter fraud is almost non-existent: "Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas." Until you can show me the existence of voter fraud that is even somewhat meaningful, voter ID laws are only being pushed for one reason: to disenfranchise voters. |
| 2016-08-16 10:51 AM in reply to: ejshowers |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by ejshowers So I am going to risk big fines and up to 5 years in prison for $50 and have to travel around to vote in different spots and you have to find someone of my sex in each of those spots that is on the polls but will not show up for some reason? Ridiculous obviously. That is why voter fraud is almost non-existent: "Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas." Until you can show me the existence of voter fraud that is even somewhat meaningful, voter ID laws are only being pushed for one reason: to disenfranchise voters.
You can't prove someone cheated on their taxes unless you audit them. An you can't tell someone voted illegally if they voted anonymously. All rights come with responsibility. If you want to vote you need to register to vote and you need to prove who you say you are. |
| 2016-08-16 11:03 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by ejshowers So I am going to risk big fines and up to 5 years in prison for $50 and have to travel around to vote in different spots and you have to find someone of my sex in each of those spots that is on the polls but will not show up for some reason? Ridiculous obviously. That is why voter fraud is almost non-existent: "Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas." Until you can show me the existence of voter fraud that is even somewhat meaningful, voter ID laws are only being pushed for one reason: to disenfranchise voters.
You can't prove someone cheated on their taxes unless you audit them. An you can't tell someone voted illegally if they voted anonymously. All rights come with responsibility. If you want to vote you need to register to vote and you need to prove who you say you are. Agree with your last sentence, but you have to agree that your scenario of paying someone $50 to vote for a dead person and risk jail time is bordering on the ridiculous. You better have a darn good reason to disenfranchise a voter, and you haven't proved that it is needed. Lots of people don't have or need a picture ID. Are you and your small government ideology going to create a new department to manage all this? What is wrong with how they do it in MN where I am? (not sure about other states). You go to your polling place, state your name and address, and if you are on the list the you initial it or whatever and vote. |
| 2016-08-16 11:54 AM in reply to: ejshowers |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by ejshowers Originally posted by Rogillio Agree with your last sentence, but you have to agree that your scenario of paying someone $50 to vote for a dead person and risk jail time is bordering on the ridiculous. You better have a darn good reason to disenfranchise a voter, and you haven't proved that it is needed. Lots of people don't have or need a picture ID. Are you and your small government ideology going to create a new department to manage all this? What is wrong with how they do it in MN where I am? (not sure about other states). You go to your polling place, state your name and address, and if you are on the list the you initial it or whatever and vote. Originally posted by ejshowers So I am going to risk big fines and up to 5 years in prison for $50 and have to travel around to vote in different spots and you have to find someone of my sex in each of those spots that is on the polls but will not show up for some reason? Ridiculous obviously. That is why voter fraud is almost non-existent: "Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas." Until you can show me the existence of voter fraud that is even somewhat meaningful, voter ID laws are only being pushed for one reason: to disenfranchise voters.
You can't prove someone cheated on their taxes unless you audit them. An you can't tell someone voted illegally if they voted anonymously. All rights come with responsibility. If you want to vote you need to register to vote and you need to prove who you say you are.
Lots of people would take $50 to go vote...and not even realize it is a crime! A homeless guy wouldn't rip your arm off to take the deal. "All I got to do is say I am John Smith and want to vote and you give me $50? Hellyeah I do it." I've served at the homeless shelter in my town and I can tell you are there are hundreds of people who would do this....even for $5 bucks. And you are not going to find, try, convict and sentence a homeless guy for taking $5 to go vote for John Smith. No way to prove it anyway!! That's the point!! The only one disenfranchising anyone is the voter themselves. If you don't register to vote you disenfranchise yourself. I think they ought to issue a voter ID when someone registers to vote. There are about 30 million illegal aliens in this country.....who have no legal right to vote. If just 1 in 10 of them voted it could swing the election. |
| 2016-08-16 12:02 PM in reply to: ejshowers |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Voter ID One of my co workers told me when he worked as a election official someone said hey I am here to vote in my aunt's place and they let them. That being said vote id would not stop someone who does not even enforce the current rules. I know in IL. I have to have right polling place with my name and address and match my signature. If person does not care and ignores those requirements then why would they not ignore the id? Under federal law, perpetrators face up to five years in prison and a fine of $10,000 for each act of fraud. Is one extra vote for that much too you if your caught? Even if risk is very low? Unless your in a swing state that very close is not worth the risk that's for sure. Your better off hacking the machines or trying to disenfranchise voters most likely to vote against you rather than trying to stuff the ballot. |
| 2016-08-16 12:33 PM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by chirunner134 One of my co workers told me when he worked as a election official someone said hey I am here to vote in my aunt's place and they let them. That being said vote id would not stop someone who does not even enforce the current rules. I know in IL. I have to have right polling place with my name and address and match my signature. If person does not care and ignores those requirements then why would they not ignore the id? Under federal law, perpetrators face up to five years in prison and a fine of $10,000 for each act of fraud. Is one extra vote for that much too you if your caught? Even if risk is very low? Unless your in a swing state that very close is not worth the risk that's for sure. Your better off hacking the machines or trying to disenfranchise voters most likely to vote against you rather than trying to stuff the ballot.
Doesn't matter what the penalty can be, no one is ever going to prosecute anyone for voting under and fake name. We won't even deport illegal aliens for being in the country illegally....we sure as heck aren't going to prosecute them for voting illegally. |
| 2016-08-16 8:13 PM in reply to: ejshowers |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by ejshowers So I am going to risk big fines and up to 5 years in prison for $50 and have to travel around to vote in different spots and you have to find someone of my sex in each of those spots that is on the polls but will not show up for some reason? Ridiculous obviously. That is why voter fraud is almost non-existent: "Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas." Until you can show me the existence of voter fraud that is even somewhat meaningful, voter ID laws are only being pushed for one reason: to disenfranchise voters. The issue is much bigger then the number of people convicted, but I am somewhat in agreement that it's a relatively small percentage of people. At my precinct they have a book with all registered voters in it and I have to sign my line with my name on it and there's observers from both parties. If there are people committing voter fraud here there would have to eventually be somebody who shows up and already has their line signed. I suspect that would be a really big deal and quite obvious. That being said I would prefer that ID's were required, but I don't get too bent around the axle on it. I'm far more nervous about the crappy digital systems that are in use around the country than I am ID's. |
| 2016-09-09 10:03 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
| 788 Across the river from Memphis, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Voter ID Finger print voting machines with photo cap. There's a camera on the laptop I'm using that is smaller than a pencil eraser. Also, using finger print capture and feeding it to a database that tells you if a fingerprint is duplicated based on voting session # |
| 2016-09-09 2:52 PM in reply to: WebFootFreak |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by WebFootFreak Finger print voting machines with photo cap. There's a camera on the laptop I'm using that is smaller than a pencil eraser. Also, using finger print capture and feeding it to a database that tells you if a fingerprint is duplicated based on voting session #
Clearly you are trying to disenfranchise people with no fingers even though there is no evidence of fingerless voter fraud. |
| 2016-09-09 6:25 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Voter ID If someone nefarious wanted to screw with voting, they'd go after the vote *counting* because it's a touchpoint that sees MANY more ballots than an individual voter. How many laws or proposed laws have you seen to deal with that? I'm guessing zero. Voter ID laws are all about disenfranchising people who are likely to vote against the party that supports those laws.
I'm far more nervous about the crappy digital systems that are in use around the country than I am ID's. ^^^ this. Final note: my state is now using mail-in ballots across the board. No more arguments about whether this area or that got too few polling stations, and whether people standing in line didn't get to vote in time. That whole thing is ridiculous. We may not trust a lot about the government, but the U.S. Mail is one thing that generally just works. Plus you get a nice voting paper trail.
Edited by spudone 2016-09-09 6:26 PM |
| 2016-09-09 9:18 PM in reply to: spudone |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by spudone If someone nefarious wanted to screw with voting, they'd go after the vote *counting* because it's a touchpoint that sees MANY more ballots than an individual voter. How many laws or proposed laws have you seen to deal with that? I'm guessing zero. Voter ID laws are all about disenfranchising people who are likely to vote against the party that supports those laws.
I'm far more nervous about the crappy digital systems that are in use around the country than I am ID's. ^^^ this. Final note: my state is now using mail-in ballots across the board. No more arguments about whether this area or that got too few polling stations, and whether people standing in line didn't get to vote in time. That whole thing is ridiculous. We may not trust a lot about the government, but the U.S. Mail is one thing that generally just works. Plus you get a nice voting paper trail.
this x2 |
| 2016-09-09 10:08 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Voter ID Let's say there were 1000 cases of voter fraud in every MAJOR city in the country.....and that would be a stretch. None of you are talking about anything that would make a hill of beans. This is a non issue. |
| 2016-09-10 7:04 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Voter ID Originally posted by dmiller5 The stuff that really bothers me is the all digital ballots with no paper backup.If a glitch occurs or somebody exploits it there's nothing to fall back on for recounting.Originally posted by spudone If someone nefarious wanted to screw with voting, they'd go after the vote *counting* because it's a touchpoint that sees MANY more ballots than an individual voter. How many laws or proposed laws have you seen to deal with that? I'm guessing zero. Voter ID laws are all about disenfranchising people who are likely to vote against the party that supports those laws.
I'm far more nervous about the crappy digital systems that are in use around the country than I am ID's. ^^^ this. Final note: my state is now using mail-in ballots across the board. No more arguments about whether this area or that got too few polling stations, and whether people standing in line didn't get to vote in time. That whole thing is ridiculous. We may not trust a lot about the government, but the U.S. Mail is one thing that generally just works. Plus you get a nice voting paper trail.
this x2 |
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