Improve swim with kicking?

Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.

Wow!  My bad!  Sorry!  When I read your OP I truly didn't even see what I now have bolded.

That you want to improve your swim during swimming events - you specifically mentioned 50's and 100's changes things a little bit, but not a lot.

For a VERY good freestyle swimmer, kicking is still only going to contribute ~ 10% of the forward propulsion - for most swimmers it will be significantly less.

The amount of propulsion generated by the kick for the VAST majority of swimmers is not the problem, the issue is the amount of frontal drag created by the kick.

Keys to a "fast" freestyle flutter kick -

• Extremely flexible ankles
• Compact kick (I call it "in-contact" - your feet are never separated)
• Kick from the hip
• 6-beat kick (great for swimming shorter events, not so good for triathlon)

Propulsion from the kick is created during the initial moments of the downbeat of the kick as the top of your foot is moving water backwards.  The more flexible your ankles, the more propulsion you can create.  When you try to "muscle" your way through a kick, what typically happens is the knee bends more.  This does indeed briefly increase the propulsive force by creating a greater angle at the top of your foot, however it also increases the frontal drag by a greater amount because the front of your thigh is presented to the oncoming water.  Drag will win out EVERY time.

I still suggest your kick sets be 'streamline kicking.'  Lose the kickboard.  Kickboards reinforce poor position in the water while streamline kicking reinforces proper position in the water.

Work on your ankle flexibility with exercises like those found here - http://theraceclub.com/aqua-notes/power-swim-kick-flex-appeal/

Good luck!

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.