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tax reform - where do you stand?
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 2017-09-20 1:38 PM |
Master 5557    , California |  Subject: tax reform - where do you stand?From the White House memo on goals: Goals for Tax Reform
Individual Reform
Business Reform
my opinion: - less tax brackets - whatever Edited by spudone 2017-09-20 1:38 PM |
| 2017-09-20 1:41 PM in reply to: spudone |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? I could live with everything you suggested. |
| 2017-09-20 1:51 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Left Brain I could live with everything you suggested. Quoted for posterity! |
| 2017-09-20 2:46 PM in reply to: spudone |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? 2.Doubling the standard deduction 2.Protect the home ownership and charitable gift tax deductions These two seem at odds. Ever since we paid off our house about 10 years ago, we have not been able to itemize. The standard deduction was much higher than the few things we could deduct. For years before that, the interest deduction plus our charitable deduction made it beneficial to itemize. If you double the standard deduction....unless you have a HUGE mortgage and tithe and give generously to charity it won't make sense to itemize. Frankly, I never understood why we deduct interest paid to a bank or mortgage company from our federal tax liability. I also don't see a benefit in going from 7 to 3 brackets? |
| 2017-09-20 2:50 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Rogillio I also don't see a benefit in going from 7 to 3 brackets? Me either. I suspect it has something to do with pushing more of the borderline people up into the next chunk (someone currently at 28% or 33% might move up to 35% in the new plan). Need more details though. The current brackets look like this: https://taxfoundation.org/2017-tax-brackets/
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| 2017-09-20 5:30 PM in reply to: spudone |
Regular 549 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by spudone From the White House memo on goals: Goals for Tax Reform
Individual Reform
Business Reform
my opinion: - less tax brackets - whatever agree with most of what you have here, except for a few things 1) 3 Tax brackets - I would not say whatever, this is a must. Streamlining a convoluted system. 2) 15% tax rate - This is another must and wont affect debt. This is also why most companies move money offshore, as its taxed around 15% elsewhere. It wont affect debt, because companies will not have to move money off shore. |
| 2017-09-20 8:12 PM in reply to: hessma |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? 1) 3 Tax brackets - I would not say whatever, this is a must. Streamlining a convoluted system. You can see how it could hurt or help, depending on where they slide people who are in-between the new brackets... Not sure about #2, the CBO has already said anything below about 26% is going to be unworkable. Keep in mind it depends on what actual deductions are still available after the reform (companies right now pay an *effective* rate much lower than their base rate). |
| 2017-09-20 8:49 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by spudone Where they draw the line for new brackets will be the tell on the entire package. I would imagine there are quite a few people who are like my wife and i.......just barely below the 33% rate. (We turn down work so we don't break over). As a family of 5 now (3 kids still carried as dependents) we don't really make enough to take advantage of the loopholes the wealthy can, but we make too much to write off college tuition, get child tax credits, etc. etc.....as such we pay A LOT of taxes relative to our income. It's a good problem to have and we are grateful for the position we worked to put ourselves in......but paying another 7% if we get moved to 35% wold be a wallop for us. It's a first world problem for sure, but we've been carrying a high tax burden for many years.....Im ok with sharing. 1) 3 Tax brackets - I would not say whatever, this is a must. Streamlining a convoluted system. You can see how it could hurt or help, depending on where they slide people who are in-between the new brackets... Not sure about #2, the CBO has already said anything below about 26% is going to be unworkable. Keep in mind it depends on what actual deductions are still available after the reform (companies right now pay an *effective* rate much lower than their base rate).  .......sorry for paragraph and punctuation problems.....cell phone in the dark while we watch protesters turn into vandals.....er.....pumpkins. LOLEdited by Left Brain 2017-09-20 8:51 PM |
| 2017-09-21 7:53 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Expert 4921 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Rogillio 2.Doubling the standard deduction 2.Protect the home ownership and charitable gift tax deductions These two seem at odds. Ever since we paid off our house about 10 years ago, we have not been able to itemize. The standard deduction was much higher than the few things we could deduct. For years before that, the interest deduction plus our charitable deduction made it beneficial to itemize. If you double the standard deduction....unless you have a HUGE mortgage and tithe and give generously to charity it won't make sense to itemize. Frankly, I never understood why we deduct interest paid to a bank or mortgage company from our federal tax liability. I also don't see a benefit in going from 7 to 3 brackets? You also get to deduct property taxes in addition to the mortgage interest (and at lower incomes, I think you can deduct mortgage insurance as well...). If you live in a high cost of living area with high property taxes, that is WAY above the standard deduction. A $500K house with $10K in property taxes is like $25-30K of deductions depending on the note). All of this "tax reform" nonsense is putting lipstick on a pig. Until we move to a consumption-based tax, it's going to remain a mess. |
| 2017-09-21 10:07 AM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Lipstick on a pig indeed. This will just turn into another bi-partisan football for Congress to hump. I don't know the answer, but I don't believe our current govt has the ability to fix it; even if they could agree on reform, be it flat or consumption based. My opinion of consumption tax is not very high due to my experience with VAT in the EU. Even they have 'outs' that will just be another loophole riddled system, should our govt chose a plan based on the EU model. Flat tax for everyone seems fairest, but they would riddle it with loopholes in order to garner the required votes to pass. My opinion is they will just march out the same pig, with a new shade of lipstick and expect us to bow down to their major milestone in taxing the masses. |
| 2017-09-21 11:03 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Real question, why is a flat tax the most fair? (just for numbers a 10% flat tax) If you make $40,000 a year that 4,000 probably makes a bigger difference than if you make $4,000,000 the 400,000 you pay. This is why tax brackets work. The better you are doing in the system, the more you are expected to contribute to it. |
| 2017-09-21 3:17 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by dmiller5 Real question, why is a flat tax the most fair? (just for numbers a 10% flat tax) If you make $40,000 a year that 4,000 probably makes a bigger difference than if you make $4,000,000 the 400,000 you pay. This is why tax brackets work. The better you are doing in the system, the more you are expected to contribute to it. So why then are there any 'brackets'. Why not just make the rate be a line not steps? |
| 2017-09-21 3:18 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Expert 4921 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by dmiller5 Real question, why is a flat tax the most fair? (just for numbers a 10% flat tax) If you make $40,000 a year that 4,000 probably makes a bigger difference than if you make $4,000,000 the 400,000 you pay. This is why tax brackets work. The better you are doing in the system, the more you are expected to contribute to it. Isn't $400,000 > $4,000?? The progressive tax system doesn't really work that way because of all of the loopholes, and earned income is taxed much higher than investment income. Lower income earners ("The 47%" as Mitt Romney fatefully descried...) pay no taxes at all or even worse, get tax refunds (i.e. pay negative taxes, which is a direct federal redistribution of income) due to tax credits, and wealthier folks utilize loopholes and often earn more of their money from investments, so the progressive system doesn't hit them like it is supposedly designed to. So the middle class bears the brunt of the tax burden.
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| 2017-09-21 3:27 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? When this is all said and done the Middle Class is still going to get punched in the mouth.....and we'll just go on with our lives like always. |
| 2017-09-21 3:28 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Left Brain When this is all said and done the Middle Class is still going to get punched in the mouth.....and we'll just go on with our lives like always. And small businesses :/ |
| 2017-09-21 5:04 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Yeah, they'll get bent over as well........only this time it will be with a smile and a pat on the butt. Edited by Left Brain 2017-09-21 5:05 PM |
| 2017-09-22 9:12 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? We could save billions if we did away with the IRS and we went to a national sales tax. Money has no value until you spend it. No (national) sales tax on food and gas and other essentials. Sales tax on an F150 would be less than sales tax on a Mercedes. Tourists from other countries would pay into our system with say a 10% national sales tax on hotels. The idea of taxing your 'income' is kind of bazar anyway. Tax 'outgo'. If you are poor, virtually nothing you buy would be federally taxed.....but if you have the money to fly to LA and visit Wallyworld then you will pay a little tax on the airfare and park admissions (assuming they are open). |
| 2017-09-22 9:28 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Regular 549 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Left Brain When this is all said and done the Middle Class is still going to get punched in the mouth.....and we'll just go on with our lives like always. 100% True. |
| 2017-09-22 9:33 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Regular 549 | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Rogillio We could save billions if we did away with the IRS and we went to a national sales tax. Money has no value until you spend it. No (national) sales tax on food and gas and other essentials. Sales tax on an F150 would be less than sales tax on a Mercedes. Tourists from other countries would pay into our system with say a 10% national sales tax on hotels. The idea of taxing your 'income' is kind of bazar anyway. Tax 'outgo'. If you are poor, virtually nothing you buy would be federally taxed.....but if you have the money to fly to LA and visit Wallyworld then you will pay a little tax on the airfare and park admissions (assuming they are open). There are quite a few good ideas, all with positives and negatives. Its bizzare that no politician has grabbed on to this and campaigned for it hard. However, I will not make many friends with this comment, but until EVERYONE pays taxes, the system is broken. Anyone with income needs to pay taxes. If Seniors can pay taxes on their 401(k)'s and other income, then the person on welfare can pay taxes as well. Think about this.....you work your whole life saving what you can for retirement (like the government suggests you do) and then when that time comes, they wack you at the standard tax rates, all while some folks pay no taxes, just taking government handouts. |
| 2017-09-22 11:04 AM in reply to: hessma |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by hessma Originally posted by Rogillio We could save billions if we did away with the IRS and we went to a national sales tax. Money has no value until you spend it. No (national) sales tax on food and gas and other essentials. Sales tax on an F150 would be less than sales tax on a Mercedes. Tourists from other countries would pay into our system with say a 10% national sales tax on hotels. The idea of taxing your 'income' is kind of bazar anyway. Tax 'outgo'. If you are poor, virtually nothing you buy would be federally taxed.....but if you have the money to fly to LA and visit Wallyworld then you will pay a little tax on the airfare and park admissions (assuming they are open). There are quite a few good ideas, all with positives and negatives. Its bizzare that no politician has grabbed on to this and campaigned for it hard. However, I will not make many friends with this comment, but until EVERYONE pays taxes, the system is broken. Anyone with income needs to pay taxes. If Seniors can pay taxes on their 401(k)'s and other income, then the person on welfare can pay taxes as well. Think about this.....you work your whole life saving what you can for retirement (like the government suggests you do) and then when that time comes, they wack you at the standard tax rates, all while some folks pay no taxes, just taking government handouts. the government let you take your income, and without paying taxes earn interest on it for however long....and if you're taking out less than your original income...pay LESS taxes on it. how is this not a great deal. people on welfare really shouldn't need to pay taxes since it would just increase the level of welfare they required, which would go through the government and we know thats inefficient and costs something . |
| 2017-09-22 12:10 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by hessma Originally posted by Rogillio We could save billions if we did away with the IRS and we went to a national sales tax. Money has no value until you spend it. No (national) sales tax on food and gas and other essentials. Sales tax on an F150 would be less than sales tax on a Mercedes. Tourists from other countries would pay into our system with say a 10% national sales tax on hotels. The idea of taxing your 'income' is kind of bazar anyway. Tax 'outgo'. If you are poor, virtually nothing you buy would be federally taxed.....but if you have the money to fly to LA and visit Wallyworld then you will pay a little tax on the airfare and park admissions (assuming they are open). There are quite a few good ideas, all with positives and negatives. Its bizzare that no politician has grabbed on to this and campaigned for it hard. However, I will not make many friends with this comment, but until EVERYONE pays taxes, the system is broken. Anyone with income needs to pay taxes. If Seniors can pay taxes on their 401(k)'s and other income, then the person on welfare can pay taxes as well. Think about this.....you work your whole life saving what you can for retirement (like the government suggests you do) and then when that time comes, they wack you at the standard tax rates, all while some folks pay no taxes, just taking government handouts. the government let you take your income, and without paying taxes earn interest on it for however long....and if you're taking out less than your original income...pay LESS taxes on it. how is this not a great deal. people on welfare really shouldn't need to pay taxes since it would just increase the level of welfare they required, which would go through the government and we know thats inefficient and costs something . I agree it makes no sense for welfare recipients to pay taxes....but usually they do not pay any income tax. But when a poor person and I go to the grocery store and pay 8% sales tax on $150 in groceries we both pay $12 in sales tax. The $12 is insignificant to me but might mean the difference in their kids getting a healthy meal that night or eating mac and cheese the 3rd time this week. Society should never tax food. Dang, I sound like a flaming liberal! Hey Miller, where do I get my card? ;-) |
| 2017-09-22 2:21 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? at the hemp store i think :P |
| 2017-09-22 2:48 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by dmiller5 I agree it makes no sense for welfare recipients to pay taxes....but usually they do not pay any income tax. But when a poor person and I go to the grocery store and pay 8% sales tax on $150 in groceries we both pay $12 in sales tax. The $12 is insignificant to me but might mean the difference in their kids getting a healthy meal that night or eating mac and cheese the 3rd time this week. Society should never tax food. Dang, I sound like a flaming liberal! Hey Miller, where do I get my card? ;-) Originally posted by hessma Originally posted by Rogillio We could save billions if we did away with the IRS and we went to a national sales tax. Money has no value until you spend it. No (national) sales tax on food and gas and other essentials. Sales tax on an F150 would be less than sales tax on a Mercedes. Tourists from other countries would pay into our system with say a 10% national sales tax on hotels. The idea of taxing your 'income' is kind of bazar anyway. Tax 'outgo'. If you are poor, virtually nothing you buy would be federally taxed.....but if you have the money to fly to LA and visit Wallyworld then you will pay a little tax on the airfare and park admissions (assuming they are open). There are quite a few good ideas, all with positives and negatives. Its bizzare that no politician has grabbed on to this and campaigned for it hard. However, I will not make many friends with this comment, but until EVERYONE pays taxes, the system is broken. Anyone with income needs to pay taxes. If Seniors can pay taxes on their 401(k)'s and other income, then the person on welfare can pay taxes as well. Think about this.....you work your whole life saving what you can for retirement (like the government suggests you do) and then when that time comes, they wack you at the standard tax rates, all while some folks pay no taxes, just taking government handouts. the government let you take your income, and without paying taxes earn interest on it for however long....and if you're taking out less than your original income...pay LESS taxes on it. how is this not a great deal. people on welfare really shouldn't need to pay taxes since it would just increase the level of welfare they required, which would go through the government and we know thats inefficient and costs something . My state has a high sales tax but we don't tax food. Well, we tax you if you're eating out in restaurants, but not groceries. |
| 2017-09-23 10:58 AM in reply to: spudone |
Expert 4921 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by dmiller5 I agree it makes no sense for welfare recipients to pay taxes....but usually they do not pay any income tax. But when a poor person and I go to the grocery store and pay 8% sales tax on $150 in groceries we both pay $12 in sales tax. The $12 is insignificant to me but might mean the difference in their kids getting a healthy meal that night or eating mac and cheese the 3rd time this week. Society should never tax food. Dang, I sound like a flaming liberal! Hey Miller, where do I get my card? ;-) Originally posted by hessma Originally posted by Rogillio We could save billions if we did away with the IRS and we went to a national sales tax. Money has no value until you spend it. No (national) sales tax on food and gas and other essentials. Sales tax on an F150 would be less than sales tax on a Mercedes. Tourists from other countries would pay into our system with say a 10% national sales tax on hotels. The idea of taxing your 'income' is kind of bazar anyway. Tax 'outgo'. If you are poor, virtually nothing you buy would be federally taxed.....but if you have the money to fly to LA and visit Wallyworld then you will pay a little tax on the airfare and park admissions (assuming they are open). There are quite a few good ideas, all with positives and negatives. Its bizzare that no politician has grabbed on to this and campaigned for it hard. However, I will not make many friends with this comment, but until EVERYONE pays taxes, the system is broken. Anyone with income needs to pay taxes. If Seniors can pay taxes on their 401(k)'s and other income, then the person on welfare can pay taxes as well. Think about this.....you work your whole life saving what you can for retirement (like the government suggests you do) and then when that time comes, they wack you at the standard tax rates, all while some folks pay no taxes, just taking government handouts. the government let you take your income, and without paying taxes earn interest on it for however long....and if you're taking out less than your original income...pay LESS taxes on it. how is this not a great deal. people on welfare really shouldn't need to pay taxes since it would just increase the level of welfare they required, which would go through the government and we know thats inefficient and costs something . My state has a high sales tax but we don't tax food. Well, we tax you if you're eating out in restaurants, but not groceries. We pay 6% on most items, nothing on non-prepared food, 9% on beer/wine/liquor. Thanks O'Malley!! |
| 2017-09-23 12:12 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: tax reform - where do you stand? idk seems reasonable to me |
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