Marvarnett's Group - Full

Hi Dan

I have been following your progress; you've had an awesome year. If you may remember I have an opportunity to do the Worlds in Lorient France next year as part of Team Canada. I lucked into this as I have only done two HIMs and placed near the bottom of my age group (57). I train hard though, plan on doing this race and my first IM in Penticton.

This race scares the hell out of me, any advice you can provide would be most appreciated.

John

Outstanding fellas!!  I look forward to helping you in any way that I can.

First thing I need to know.  Do you want me to respond to you via PM or here on the thread.  DO NOT think that if someone is ok with being responded to on the thread that you have to.  Just let me know what you feel comfortable with.  My preferance is that we keep it on the log so that everyone can get the benifit and it keeps me consistant.  But if you have a certain private question, then cool, we can do it "off-line".

I will look at everyone's logs tomorrow and have specific questions for you.  For now, give me your A race and what your goal is for the season.  John, I assume worlds is your 'A' race.  Hopefully I'll be there to root you on.  My Coach qualifed at Miamiman.  I might go to cheer or race if I can qualify.

Hi Dan, mind if I join your group?  I'm still in my first year of tris and all of the training that comes along with this new lifestyle and would really appreciate a mentor and someone to keep me "accountable" over this offseason. 

Here is a little history on myself:

Story:

32 (almost 33 in a few days) male, married with two little boys, ages 33 months and 18 months.  I started out running in 2005 as a way to stay in shape after playing many years of hockey (ice, roller/inline, floor/deck).  A blown disc in my lower back and two other bulging discs from all of the checking and crashing into other players, the boards, and the floor ended my fun.  

I stumbled up on the world of triathlons while I was searching for some running training plans.  I was intrigued from the beginning and finally joined BT and made the plunge.  I had no swimming background, no real cycling background and the only running I did was playing soccer in HS.  I taught myself how to swim using Total Immersion drills and techniques.  Back in February I couldn't swim half of a length of the pool.  Today I can swim 3 laps so I have come a long way. 

I completed my first half-marathon distance running race this past spring, which is the longest distance I have accomplished. 

I work "bankers" hours at a bank (8 - 5) that is right on the waterfront of Lake Erie.  I've been at the bank for going on 9 years and enjoy it as a career. 

Training:

I need structure.  Without a plan I just can't seem to get it together, which is why BT has been so valuable to me.  I have been tri training since I completed the half-marathon in May.  Similar to you I drink the HR Kool-aide.  I follow Mike Ricci's testing protocol to determine LT for setting up my HR zones.  My weakness is swimming followed by biking.  I know that more time in the pool and time in the saddle will help and I'm working on these aspects of my training.

Goals:

My goals for 2007 include completing an Olympic distance tri and three sprint distance races.  My challenge is trying to fit in the training while still having time for my family. 

Dan...

 I see you have a crew here already...anyway I can squeeze in?!

 Thanks!

It would be awesome if you could attend the Worlds. It would be great to finally meet you and to have someone there who has done it before would be a huge benefit. This race and IM Canada are my A races this year. I don't have a specific time goal yet but I definatly want to move up from the bottom group in my races. Here is an outline of my plans.

Swim - Our tri club has hired a new coach who has competed with Team Canada in the past. About 30 of us meet every Sunday night. He has us do all kinds of crazy races, time trials, etc that are flat out. We grumble but its exciting and everyone is improving dramatically. On Thursday morning I do another session with him in a small group of usually 2 to 5 athletes.

Bike - On Saturdays the club rents part of the gym I go to and we do one of the Spinerval Series. After the class since I'm there I jump into what they call Rip and Ride - 45 min spin on a Lemond bike & 45 minutes of strength training. The total bike ends up being about 2 1/2 hrs plus the strength workout. I'm pretty sore the next day. Mid week, I joined the local cycle club. We do an evening session, the coach is certified and have done one lactate threshold test. They are mostly roadies (a few IM finishers); they train indoors all winter and then move outside to do weekly races, time trials, etc. This should dramatically improve my cycling. I am new to the roadie scene.

Run - I was to do a full mary in Jan (Changs Rock & Roll) but injury means I have to cancel or drop down to a 1/2. Will likely cancel and save the fare for worlds. I have done several 1/2s, my best time is 2:04, my last 1/2 was last fall.  A freind who has done several IMs is planning on doing a full this spring; I plan on training with her so I can get this under my belt.

Strength - I have worked with a personal trainer for 2 years now. Right now it is one private session per week, other sessions are a group cross training session for runners , a stretch class and the strength portion of the Rip & Ride which is done by other trainers (one who has done a few IMs). I just started yoga at another place to improve my flexiability. I probably am stronger than a lot of athletes I go up against which keeps me in the races. What I need to learn are all the fine skills. 

Injuries - I have had calf problems and slowly developed right hip issues to the point I couldn't do any impact training. I tried various remedies, massage, ice, ibuprofin without much success. Got into physio last week. My range of motion is about 50 -70% of what it should be. Because of this my run stride is about 6 inches shorter than it shoud be; my legs drop in the swim as I have limited upward range in my hips; basically I'm tight from all the training. This has progressed to the point where I am developing a shin splint where the muscles attach to the shin which causes considerable pain on impact. I am to stretch 12-16 times a day (impossible) and we will work together over the next year to improve things. It seems to be getting better. Hopefully I can start some light run training next week.

Other - I'm the VP for our tri club. It takes a lot of time and may keep me out of some short races but am a believer of you get out what you put in. The plus is I get the inside on a lot of training and have made a gazilion freinds.

History - I am 56 and this is fairly new to me. I played the yoyo game most of my life. Smoked like a steam engine, drank like a fish, worked and partyed hard. Exercise was mostly weight training with some raquetball and running. Trained mostly on my own. Would get in great shape and then quit always gaining a few more pounds. 2 1/2 years ago I decided enough was enough, work sucked, life sucked and I needed to change. I decided I would join a running class (remember I trained on my own so this was a leap). I thought if I could do this for one year without quitting it would become part of my lifestyle. Since I had run a bit I signed up for a 10k class. They never had enough runnners to continue so it became the 1/2 mary. While in the class I joined a training facility that was sport specific (no bodybuilders here).  They asked if I was interested in a tri class which prepared you for a sprint. I had no idea what it was about but ended up doing a sprint and olympic after some winter training. Came in second last in both but I was hooked. The next year I did some short races and two HIM about 2 weeks apart. The first I placed last but a number of the racers didn't complete; the second I shaved 50+ minutes off my time. Still sucked on the run, but hey, I was flying, kicked some a#s in the swim and bike. Went to watch IM Canada and registered.

Goals - Worlds and IM Canada. These races are pretty close together and lets face it, distances that are double what I've done. I stated training hard early, hope to peak once, get a little rest and then peak again before worlds. I keep the worlds pretty low key, my freinds aren't attending, really am still a rookie so this is my race. As far as IM everyone is so supportive I don't want to disapoint. A little secret, the IM athletes I train with give me the - its about a complete talk - but personally I figure I can kick little a if you know what I mean. I know what race days about, its the measuring stick for the rest of year; all in a days fun!!!

Other - I lost my kid brother to alchoholism last year. Part of helping him to get better was a promise that if he quit drinking I would too; unfortuately he didn't make it. It's such a horrible illness, takes your whole life away. I've decided to stay away and life has never been better. The freinds I have made over the last few years is unbeleivable and I can truly say I am in a space in my life that has never been better. I look forward to chatting with all of you.  

John

Sign me up for this one. Sounds like a good group.

Personal stuff - I'm a 30 year old work at home Dad. My wife also does triathlons. Interesting to try and fit our training around work and our 2 sons (ages 4 and 1.5).

History - I'm about to begin my 3rd full tri season. I was a CC runner in high school until my junior year. Made it to state my freshman year, then it was downhill from there. Had a bad back problem that got worse each year, finally making me quit when I was a junior. Took a few years off running because the pain was too much for me.

In 98 I looked up and I was close to 200 pounds. Started running again and got back to 175. Got back into 5Ks and did a 10K before I was starting to burn out on running. My wife and I decided to try triathlons. Did my first sprint with a $7 moisture wicking tshirt, $30 tri shorts, and a $50 Target special mountain bike. After that I was hooked.

After last season I got serious about training and diet. Dropped 20 pounds between the end of the 2005 season and the beginning of 2006.

Goals - This year (2006) I moved up to do my first Oly and HIM. Did my first marathon last weekend in Vegas. So I'm recovering from that a few weeks before I get ready for my second HIM in April. After that, I've targeted the Redman Tri in OKC as my first Ironman.

Everyone above this message is in. 

That means:  Cashmason
                      Starcorp (John)
                      mcole158 (Michael)
                      Tri'nNC (Ryan)
                      apw0397 (Andy)
                      shaved_wookie (Art)

You'll notice there are 6.  Well, Art and I have been mentoring each other since my BT 'birth' so that's why I put him in the final position.

Well, since I'm formally in the group I think I need to post a little bio as well.

I'm a 41yo male cau, 6'5", 245, bro/grn, last seen running northbound on Kamehameha Hwy at a slow rate. And if you can't guess from my into I'm also a police officer in Hawaii.

I've only done one real triathlon. I've been in and out of tri training for a few years now. There has always been something that has pulled me away. I got married, I got sick, I got a an addictive video game... the list goes on and on. However, 2007 will be my breakthrough year!

I'm registered for Honu HIM and IMFL for '07. I will also do the Honolulu Tri (Oly) as well as a few sprints and local runs during my training. I am getting more and more serious about my training but I still tend to keep things in perspective and prioritize my family above my training.

I am a novice at all three disciplines and don't naturally excel at any either. I do very much enjoy the training as it clears the mind and body and makes me feel healthier than I ever have.

I take responsibility of "outing" Dan. He was content to sit in obscurity having been selected for Worlds and not telling anyone. I took a look at his logs and saw the natural talent he had for this sport and revealed him to the BT community. A shrinking violet he is not. He jumped right in to the BR family and made lots and lots of friends. Dan has had a stellar year and we all look forward to watching him continue to impress in '07! And yes, you guys got yourself in to a good group!

I look forward to sharing and learning with you guys as much as possible. I'll go ahead and add you all to my friends list and start getting acquainted with your logs. WooHoo!!! Look out 2007! The Wookie is on the rampage!!!

Dan - I am comfortable with responding here on the thread.  My 'A' race is my first Oly attempt in July.  My overall goal is to finish that distance, but I would be lying if I said time didn't matter.  I need to review last year's results and find a "goal" time to aim for so I can push myself in training. 

I made it in...sweet!

 I'm 25 yr. old and just finished my first season. I was a high school athlete, and was somewhat involved in club sports in college (just recreational). Over that past 3 or so years I started running off and on....registered for a marathon but didn't follow through with it. I did limp through a 10 miler in West Va. and a few 5k's. Last year, I decided that was it...I really wanted to get into something to be more healthy, get in shape, and have a sense of accomplishment. I have always been amazed with the Ironman athletes...I want to be one. My first season consisted of 2 Sprints and an Olympic. (along with several 5k's, 8k, 10k). My goals for '07 are to finish 2 HIM and IMFL...I will also be completing my first marathon in February. There are shorter races scatered throughout, along with a sprint and possibly a relay with my dad.

 I worked in the NBA before coming back to work with the family insurance investigating business, and recently have started a sister company to that. I'm still figuring out this whole life balance part...

 I too look forward to seeing the progress of each of you! My first HIM plan started yesterday (the race is May 5).

 I want to thank Dan for his willingness to help and inspire each of us along the way!

 Here we go! Happy training!

Before I start, I would like to Thank you guys for choosing me as your mentor.  I know that we are all going to learn from each other andbe able to acheive more than we think.  It's all about making triathlon or exercise in general a habit.  And once that habit is formed, there is no turning back.

Here is what I've gleaned so far and have added some questions: 

Cash:  How long have you been training by HR?  Are you commited to using the Maffetone method or would you be willing to re-establish your HR zones using a field test?

- When you ride, what kind of a cadence do you keep?  Are you conscience of it when you ride or just glance at it while riding?  Oh...and I don't like you because you can ride all year round and don't need a trainer. 

- You say you suck at swimming.  Is it that you don't like it?  You can't float?  You don't have good place to swim at?  Why do you say you suck at swimming?  How do you like the TI drills? 

- In regards to you IT band problems.  My wife is a massage therapist and has had people try this.  You're IT band may tight because your butt is tight.  If you loosen your glutes, it will lossen your IT band and the pain may go away.  Here is what you do.  Take a tennis ball and lie on the floor.  Use the Tennis ball to massage your glutes by "sitting" on it.  Roll around on it for about 5 min or so just using your body weight.  Make sure you do both sides!  You can upgrade to a golf ball, but start with a tennis ball.  The golf ball goes deeper and it a bit more painful.  Also, here is a stretch for you to try out.  For the left hip/glute.  While laying on your back, make a figure 4 with your left foot on top of your right knee.  Bend your right leg up keeping your left foot on your right knee.  Take your left hand and place it behind your right knee with your left elbow staying on your left thigh.  Pull your right let up until you feel a stretch through your left glute.  You can add to the stretch by using your left elbow as a lever and bringing your right knee close to your chest.

- Looking at your logs, I can't really tell what's your long run distance.  If you're running a Marathon in Feb, you should be getting in some 15-20 milers in by now.  This may have to do with your having to limp double digit miles.  Not questioning...just asking.

- Is the Sprint Tri in March going to be your 'A' race or just your first race?

- Fear not...I can give you some 'fun' bike workouts.  Do you have a group to ride with or do you ride solo mostly?

John:  You are right to be scared of the races, but the key is to turn that fear into motivation.  Which I know you will have no problem doing.

- 'A' races you want to be 1 month apart.  This is not possible, IMHO.  You need to decide which race you want to be your 'A' race.  I see an 'A' race as one where you go all out and push yourself to the limit the whole time.  If you do that, your body will need more than a month to recover.  FWIW, I would use Worlds as speed work ('B' race) and set yourself up for IM Canada.   This will allow you to fine tune your nutrition plan for IM which is KEY in not being competitive, but just crossing the line. 

- It looks like you have plenty of groups to train with and that is key.  Keep up with the Yoga, it will benifit you greatly in the injury prevention and centering aspect.  This may help you with your nagging injuries and you'l be amazed how much stuff is related to tight muscles. 

Michael - So I've got this property that I need a $5 billion loan on...can you help?  :P

- You'd be amazed how much your soccer experience will translate to distance running.  You have accomplished a lot in the pool and 2000 yds will come and go sooner than you think.  I understand you need for structure and I can help with that.  If I don't have my workouts planned ahead, I don't do them.  So I have to know what's coming up and it's purpose.

- I agree that family is vital in this sport.  With 2 young ones, having a structured plan is even more vital. 

- 'A' race in July will be great for you.  You've got plenty of time and we'll figure out some goal times so that you can push yourself to beat them and many others.  Go ahead a find a race that is suitable for you.  That way you can put a big X on the calender and you'll know what kind of terrain it will be.  The sprints can be used as speed work. 

Andy - It's awesome that you have a Triathlon friendly family.  But, as you stated, both of you have to train and make time for the family. 

- What is your desire for the IM?  And I like that you are doing a HIM before. It will give you a chance to practice your nutrition.  That will be key to you crushing that course.  A sub 6 hr HIM is great base work. 

- I hear you on the equipment.  It took me about a year before I figured out why those people on the skinny tires kept passing me.  I was on my Mountain bike!!  It's not the equipment that gets to you the line.  It just makes you a bit faster.  It's the person that gets you to the finish line. 

Art - Great job getting that 2.4 mile swim out of the way.  Now you know you can do it and you'll do it faster at IM FL.    I know you are going to continue working on your base, but don't lose sight of the big picture.    Use the Hona HIM as your first peak and as a means to dial in your nutrition.  That will give you time to figure out what worked and what didn't and allow you to peak later in the year at IM FL. 

Ryan - You have a great back ground with sports and that will go a long way.  I think you did a great job at Pinehurst.  That was a tough course and the run was brutal. 

Have you decided on which HIM's you want to do this year?  You can use them as tune ups for IM FL and are a great way to prepare. What kind of a plan are you using for your marathon training? 

Everyone:  In one way or another, you all mentioned doing this for health reasons.  That's awesome.  Too many people just sit there and say, "I can do that or I wish I could do that". Well, you ARE doing it.  And when you hear someone say, I can't...encourage them and say yes you can.  Run with me.  I'm still working on my neighbor that tells me he is going to run with me.  Everyday I tell him that I will run with him.  I know he's started thinking about it...

One at a time!! 

Thanks Dan. Makes sense to A-B the races. Only thing is you're wearing the flag in worlds so tough to B it. I was wondering whether to keep up the yoga, couldn't see the benefit unless you did it consistantly, almost like a discipline on its own. Time is always the thing but will stick to it. Can always sleep in when I'm 90. Or try to fit it in after the 2AM pole dance lesson (kidding).

I personally think my pole dancing classes are working out.  Now I need a better way to keep track of all the change they throw at me to get off the stage.

I know it's going to be hard while your wearing the flag.  But that's the kicker.  You don't do anything different in the race.  It's the preperation that determines if it's a 'B' or 'A' race.  You just don't taper for it like you do for IM.  That way you can race it hard, but your body will not be able to go all out because you didn't taper and 'prepare' it for the onslaught.

Does that make sense?

For my IM, right now I'm thinking somewhere in the 14hr category is reasonable. As I get closer, that may drop closer to 13. For now, with a sub-6 HIM under my belt, doubling it plus an extra 1/3 is a safe bet. I tend to have a minimum goal, a realistic goal, and a stretch goal for my A races. Won't really set those till August or so. Doing a half 5 months beforehand will be a good bar setter, like you said.

I should be able to improve on my first HIM significantly. I had a HRM but hadn't set any kinds of bike or run zones. Looking back at the data with what I know about my zones now, I was in Z3 for most of the bike leg and Z4 on the run. No wonder I bonked at mile 7 of the run, huh?

Speaking of equipment, I'm hoping Uncle Sam is nice to me this year. My tax refund has already been promised by my wife to go to a new tri-bike. Getting off of my 26 pounds of Sora-equipped steel will be nice.

Dan...Thanks for the kind words...

 My mary plan isn't so much of a plan...i took my Marine Corp 10k time and ran a Runnersworld Schedule and have been running during the week somewhat anywhere from 5-6 miles a couple of times and then make sure I get a long run in on the weekends. So The only thing consistent with that is the long runs. Being that I just started my HIM plan on sunday...it's the 20 week BT silver/gold detailed plan. (it's imported in my planned workouts and that is what I'm going to try to stick with except I'll make sure to continue my long runs on the weekends) Is that a good idea?!? My long run this past weekend was a little over 10 miles...longest to date is 13.5 miles. The 20 week will run me up to the first HIM planned which is on May 5. The White Lake Half down here in NC, I plan to do a second HIM in September, The Duke Liver Center Half. But my 20 week plan will run up to the first HIM, at that point in time I plan on starting week 5 of the "be iron fit" competitive 30 week plan. Thoughts?!?

 My goals are somewhat still up in the air...I too, like to set 3 goals for each race...my thoughts right now are roughly....

Myrtle Beach Marathon..4:30:00 ...White lake HIM... 5:30....

below is my tentative race schedule for 2007 and some discipline goals. I have been back and forth on whether to hire a coach and have decided that I will give my first training plan to the May HIM for myself to see how I can do with out it. I will probably go for a few sessions (especially with the swim) in each discipline to have my technique critiqued, take good notes, and have things to work on. Oh...i was also just given a book by my lovely girlfriend, "Food for Fitness" By Chris Carmichael which I cant wait to read. Thoughts?!

Ryan,

I think that's a good thing you have going.  The marathon will provide good base work for you.  I'm assuming you're using the marathon purely as base work and you don't want to go out and try and crush it.  If you do want to, I would recommend one of these plans: http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00index.htm

I used the Advanced II and it worked well for me.  If, you're more focused on Duke and then IM FL, then just keep the mileage up for the marathon and continue on the 20 week detailed plan. 

You should probably decided on if you want one 'A' race or if you want to try and double peak.  Just my 2 cents.

Cash,

I figured as much.  I just wanted to verify.  Believe it or not, I have met some people that don't do more than 15 miles and go out an run a marathon.  Some well...most not.

It sounds like most of your IT problems are in the past.  So that is a good thing. 

In regards to HR training.  I like the Lactate Threshold method personally.  It doesn't give you a formula, it has you do a field test and you go off of that.  It's been shown to coincide with lab results too.  So it's pretty accurate, assuming you do it properly.  Basically you run for 30 min.  The first 10 min are a warm-up, then you go as hard as you can (sustaining for the entire 20 min) and get your HR average for the 20 min.  That's your Lactate Threshold.  Based on that, you create zones for yourself.  The BT zones are based off of this.  Go here for more info: http://www.d3multisport.com/articles.php specifically here:  http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/determinezones.html

If you have HR data on the last tri you did, you might even be able to use that if you don't want to do a field test.  Or at least see how those zones compare to the ones you are using now. 

For my marathons, I used Hal Higdon's plans.  But on the 20 milers, I would alternate with them being up beat runs.  Ie, 5 miles easy, 10 miles at race pace and 5 miles easy. Every other week.  But that's just me. 

Defintely go on that 40 mler on Sat.  It's always good to ride with someone.    No worries on picking an 'A' race.  One thing at a time.

John,

You do realize that World LC is now 2X Olympic distance.  So that's a 3K/80K/20K.  Since IM is going to be your "A" race, I would stick with the IM plan.  BUT...you can work on some speed stuff too.  Like on your inteval days either adding 1 or 2 or going a bit faster.  But don't forget the big picture!! 

HEARING:  John, YOU ARE AN IRONMAN!!!