Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED (Page 10)
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2009-04-21 8:54 AM in reply to: #2097055 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED serendipity - 2009-04-20 11:36 AM I've been following the Boston Marathon commentary online. The elite women just passed the halfway point. I'm blown away by their speed. How do they run 6 minute miles for 26 miles? I never really appreciated how hard they worked until I started this training and have been tracking my own pace. Maybe I could keep up with them - for about 30 seconds! (on a good day) Anyone else suddenly finding themselves interested in the triathlon-related events? A month or so ago I was caught up in the Tour of California, after never watching a pro bike race before. YES! I wondered if I was the only one. I couldn't have cared less about Lance Armstrong or the Olympics even, to be perfectly frank. Now I follow Lance on Twitter and loved watching the swimming and biking in the Olympics this past year! |
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2009-04-21 8:59 AM in reply to: #2097309 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED soccermom15 - 2009-04-20 12:46 PM Happy Monday ladies! I had a busy weekend so wasn't around much. Congrats to Jen on her second place finish! And to Lora on her tri! I did a 5k myself on Saturday morning and had a really good race - 16 seconds short of a new PR. But I ran well and felt good the whole time. Janet Glad you ended up having a great 5K overall, Janet. Oo, that is a Catch-22 about the bike. You may just want to take it in and see what the problem is and how long they think it'll take to fix it. I would say that if it's anymore than 2 days (you can run or swim at least on those days), then you may have to go as is, though that's pretty unappealing, too. Yikes! Above all else, just please make sure your brakes work! |
2009-04-21 9:21 AM in reply to: #2097716 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED blujay65 - 2009-04-20 2:48 PM Hi All, Happy Monday! This morning I did my long run, 9 miles. The pace was just OK, about 10:43. I get easily bored running anything over 30min, never mind three times that amount. So to make it more interesting I jumped on some side mountain bike trails for a few miles. It slowed me up a bit but the mental diversion was well worth it. For me boredom is a big issue and sometimes my Ipod just doesn't cover it. I try and switch up the scenery as much as possible to keep myself interested, I also tend to run better when I do this for my long runs. Never mind that it was a perfect day for running! Hope everyone is having a productive day, no matter what your are doing! I think that's a smart idea, even at the sacrifice of a better pace. |
2009-04-21 9:27 AM in reply to: #2098444 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED sleeping_butterflies - 2009-04-20 7:45 PM Hey all! Well, this week is coming along a little better than last week. I was pretty tired then, and I'm still not sure what the right combo to remedy that is yet. However, I did have a 6.2 mile run (I should have clarified that it was 10k distance, not a race....sorry). I made it just fine, so I think maybe having the extra days off was a good thing. I was pretty tight in the legs so yesterday I did yoga. That generally loosens me up pretty good, however I'm still feeling tight. Today I was able to run 5 miles, however due to thinking a few cups of coffee would be good to give me the extra boost, I ended up in the bathroom 4 times!!! Lesson learned. I also needed to re-tape my blister twice..... So I'm not sure on the time. i guesstimated. However, I was able to pick up the pace quite a bit. So that was good. I'm planning on running 3 tomorrow and 5 on Wednesday. We'll see if the legs hold up! Just no more coffee...... I've found that if I take some extra days off that I wasn't planning on, like I just get lazy for whatever reason, I come back stronger. I love, coffee, too. I left for my tri at 3:30 in the morning and was going to pour a bunch of coffee into a travel mug to help keep me awake for the approximate 2 hour drive ahead of me. I decided against it because the "side effects" would have been worse than the cure. |
2009-04-21 9:31 AM in reply to: #2099452 |
Expert 1007 Missouri | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Lora109 - 2009-04-21 8:59 AM soccermom15 - 2009-04-20 12:46 PM Happy Monday ladies! I had a busy weekend so wasn't around much. Congrats to Jen on her second place finish! And to Lora on her tri! I did a 5k myself on Saturday morning and had a really good race - 16 seconds short of a new PR. But I ran well and felt good the whole time. Janet Glad you ended up having a great 5K overall, Janet. Oo, that is a Catch-22 about the bike. You may just want to take it in and see what the problem is and how long they think it'll take to fix it. I would say that if it's anymore than 2 days (you can run or swim at least on those days), then you may have to go as is, though that's pretty unappealing, too. Yikes! Above all else, just please make sure your brakes work! Yeah, brakes work - that was the 1st thing I checked after I dug it out of the garage and dusted it off! I asked my DH last night to take a look at it for me and see if maybe he could figure out what the problem is with the gears (he's much more mechanically inclined than I am). I'm thinking that it may just need a good cleaning and some lube - it seems kind of tight when I try to manually fiddle with the derailleur. If he can't tell, then I'll call the LBS and see if they can at least look at it for me. I'm just afraid that it's going to need to be replaced which I don't really want to do since I'm hoping to get a real road bike in the near future (if I can find one fairly cheap). |
2009-04-21 9:52 AM in reply to: #2098778 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED freeflykami - 2009-04-20 10:32 PM Lora, So I did the Time Trial video and noticed a couple things when I am down in the horns my thighs are buming my stomach, is that normal? it seems like I keep putting pressure on the outside of my feet... Im not sure Im suppossed to be doing that? First off, I gotta give you kudos for being so observant about the details. That perceptiveness will help you to ask these kinds of questions and become a better triathlete in all areas. Second, I would say that it is not normal. Your seat may not be high enough or the frame may be too small. With regard to pressure on the outside of your feet, take a look at this video just released by BT about pedaling technique. Actually, I recommend this to everyone in the group. It's a short, eye-opening lesson on how to pedal more efficiently. You'll love it. At the end, he discusses how the knee should look over the pedal. Understanding this and making any corrections, could help with that problem. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1714 |
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2009-04-21 9:58 AM in reply to: #2099569 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED soccermom15 - 2009-04-21 10:31 AM Lora109 - 2009-04-21 8:59 AM soccermom15 - 2009-04-20 12:46 PM Happy Monday ladies! I had a busy weekend so wasn't around much. Congrats to Jen on her second place finish! And to Lora on her tri! I did a 5k myself on Saturday morning and had a really good race - 16 seconds short of a new PR. But I ran well and felt good the whole time. Janet Glad you ended up having a great 5K overall, Janet. Oo, that is a Catch-22 about the bike. You may just want to take it in and see what the problem is and how long they think it'll take to fix it. I would say that if it's anymore than 2 days (you can run or swim at least on those days), then you may have to go as is, though that's pretty unappealing, too. Yikes! Above all else, just please make sure your brakes work! Yeah, brakes work - that was the 1st thing I checked after I dug it out of the garage and dusted it off! I asked my DH last night to take a look at it for me and see if maybe he could figure out what the problem is with the gears (he's much more mechanically inclined than I am). I'm thinking that it may just need a good cleaning and some lube - it seems kind of tight when I try to manually fiddle with the derailleur. If he can't tell, then I'll call the LBS and see if they can at least look at it for me. I'm just afraid that it's going to need to be replaced which I don't really want to do since I'm hoping to get a real road bike in the near future (if I can find one fairly cheap). Glad the brakes are in good working order. I completely understand about not wanting to put money in something that you're going to be replacing soon anyway. Soooo frustrating. Let us know what DH does and, if you end up needing to go to the LBS, what they say. |
2009-04-21 10:51 AM in reply to: #2099440 |
Master 1734 On a lake in the Adirondacks in NY | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Lora109 - 2009-04-21 9:54 AM YES! I wondered if I was the only one. I couldn't have cared less about Lance Armstrong or the Olympics even, to be perfectly frank. Now I follow Lance on Twitter and loved watching the swimming and biking in the Olympics this past year! So then I don't have to be embarrassed to admit how many years of Kona coverage I've watched online while riding on the trainer? I also watched swimming in the Olympics. And the longer running events. Funny, though, that I couldn't get my husband interested in anything but beach volleyball...hmmm... |
2009-04-21 11:14 AM in reply to: #2068936 |
New user 8 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED No 5K race for me. It is with sadness I report that I am not going to enter the 5K race that I planned to do the first week in May. My time to propel myself this distance is still just about an hour and I don't feel up to being one of the very last to cross the line. The longest time last year was about this and it was billed as a run walk then. I think that if I had not sprained my ankle in March I would be in better shape to do this race. I am still gung ho for the sprints in July and Septemeber and the big swim in May. I may look for another 5k to do in June. I will continue to work on running which is by far my weakest part. Theresa |
2009-04-21 11:54 AM in reply to: #2099852 |
Regular 99 West Fargo | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED trigrrltri - 2009-04-21 11:14 AM No 5K race for me. It is with sadness I report that I am not going to enter the 5K race that I planned to do the first week in May. My time to propel myself this distance is still just about an hour and I don't feel up to being one of the very last to cross the line. The longest time last year was about this and it was billed as a run walk then. I think that if I had not sprained my ankle in March I would be in better shape to do this race. I am still gung ho for the sprints in July and Septemeber and the big swim in May. I may look for another 5k to do in June. I will continue to work on running which is by far my weakest part. Theresa Don't get discouraged! Running is my weakest too! That's why I signed up for the half marathon on May 9th. I have no choice but to focus on running. And believe me, I am SLOW! But for me, it's about finishing. Even if I come in last, I can say I did it. But do listen to your body. One of my biggest fears is taking on too much to fast and getting an injury. If your body needs rest from something, give it so that you don't risk losing those long term goals! I love this new quote I found... "I want to be all that I am capable of becoming." -- Katherine Mansfield I know it won't happen over night, but I know by working on it, it is inevitable. Good luck on those swims, and I'm sure that ankle will be ready to get back in action soon! |
2009-04-21 12:33 PM in reply to: #2099794 |
Veteran 153 Northern VA | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED serendipity - 2009-04-21 11:51 AM I also watched swimming in the Olympics. And the longer running events. Funny, though, that I couldn't get my husband interested in anything but beach volleyball...hmmm... I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to watch swimming (and beach volleyball)! I almost cried when Michael Phelps out touched that guy in the Fly! I cheer for swimming like a lot of guys cheer for football. Good stuff! |
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2009-04-21 4:05 PM in reply to: #2099852 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED trigrrltri - 2009-04-21 12:14 PM No 5K race for me. It is with sadness I report that I am not going to enter the 5K race that I planned to do the first week in May. My time to propel myself this distance is still just about an hour and I don't feel up to being one of the very last to cross the line. The longest time last year was about this and it was billed as a run walk then. I think that if I had not sprained my ankle in March I would be in better shape to do this race. I am still gung ho for the sprints in July and Septemeber and the big swim in May. I may look for another 5k to do in June. I will continue to work on running which is by far my weakest part. Theresa I understand the sadness you feel. The good news is that it's not like you're never going to do one again. You're already scouting out other races and your goal is still intact. Oh, yeah, and you're training to be a triathlete. See. All good news! |
2009-04-21 5:57 PM in reply to: #2068936 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED TIP OF THE WHEN I THINK OF IT Get properly fitted for a running shoe. Wearing an inproperly-fitted running shoe can lead to many injuries. Wearing a properly-fitted running shoe can help prevent them. WHERE I love, love, LOVE DSW, but that is not the place to buy a pair of running shoes. Find a running store (it'll typically be a small business) and do your shopping there. They specialize in finding the right shoe for you. They can analyze your gait, determine where you put pressure, etc. and match you up with shoes that work with your problem areas to make them not so problematic. They should watch you run in them and some even take video analysis. I would even recommend staying away from a Dick's. Gasp! STYLE Let go of the ego and just get the ones that fit. Even if they're orange and purple mixed with green, if they fit, buy them. PRICE Have a budget in mind, but expect to pay around 100 bucks starting out. Don't let the difference of 20 or even 30 dollars force you to get a pair that just fits "good enough" when you could have one that fits "perfectly" for that extra money. I understand budgets are tight these days, but please save-up enough so that you don't have to compromise. OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER When you do go, be sure to bring along your old pair of running shoes - even if you bought them at DSW 2 years ago because they looked cool. This will also aid them in their analysis. Wear clean socks (of course). Make sure you shave your legs. If you're wearing pants, you may need to roll them up so they can get a good look at your lower leg. Be prepared to try on multiple pairs of shoes. It's worth it. CONCLUSION This is the most important money you'll spend starting out. If it comes down to only having money for a trisuit or running shoes, get the running shoes. If it comes down to only having money for a heart rate monitor or running shoes, get the running shoes. If it comes down to only having money for the registration fee for a triathlon or running shoes, yep, get the running shoes and pick another tri. It's that important. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions. |
2009-04-22 9:20 AM in reply to: #2099852 |
Extreme Veteran 996 Minnesota | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED trigrrltri - 2009-04-21 11:14 AM No 5K race for me. It is with sadness I report that I am not going to enter the 5K race that I planned to do the first week in May. My time to propel myself this distance is still just about an hour and I don't feel up to being one of the very last to cross the line. The longest time last year was about this and it was billed as a run walk then. I think that if I had not sprained my ankle in March I would be in better shape to do this race. I am still gung ho for the sprints in July and Septemeber and the big swim in May. I may look for another 5k to do in June. I will continue to work on running which is by far my weakest part. Theresa Reminded me of my 1st 5k several years ago. I was dead last for 2 miles, then managed to pass one person in the last mile. I was so pumped. I bet I was happier finishing 2nd to last than the winner was getting 1st. But even when I thought I was going to finish last, I was really proud of myself just for doing it. The next year I ran the same 5k and came in back-end of middle-of the-pack. I was happy I improved, but it wasn't nearly as much fun as the 1st time. That said, if you're not feeling good about this 5k, don't do it. Move on to your next goal as long as you've got something to work towards it doesn't matter if it's Plan B or Plan C or Plan R. LadyNorth |
2009-04-22 9:35 AM in reply to: #2068936 |
Master 1734 On a lake in the Adirondacks in NY | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Lora, thanks for the tips on buying running shoes. I've considered going into a running store, but I hate walking into places not knowing what I'm doing. I will do that when I buy the next pair. |
2009-04-22 9:40 AM in reply to: #2099852 |
Master 1734 On a lake in the Adirondacks in NY | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED trigrrltri - 2009-04-21 12:14 PM No 5K race for me. It is with sadness I report that I am not going to enter the 5K race that I planned to do the first week in May. My time to propel myself this distance is still just about an hour and I don't feel up to being one of the very last to cross the line. The longest time last year was about this and it was billed as a run walk then. I think that if I had not sprained my ankle in March I would be in better shape to do this race. I am still gung ho for the sprints in July and Septemeber and the big swim in May. I may look for another 5k to do in June. I will continue to work on running which is by far my weakest part. Theresa It's probably good to put it off if you aren't feeling ready. This is supposed to be fun, not stressful! One thing I've found, though, is that my race pace tends to be faster than my training pace. I think just being in a group and pacing myself with them gets me to push alittle harder than I would on my own. So, when you do that 5K in June, you might surprise yourself. |
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2009-04-22 9:53 AM in reply to: #2068936 |
Master 1734 On a lake in the Adirondacks in NY | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED I have been having some really good swims lately. This morning was my "long" swim, but it is a recovery week for me so it was only 21 minutes. I got in the pool thinking I would do an easy 500 (since I can do that now), then just do some shorter swims to finish the time. I ended up doing 500 yds in less than 10 minutes and was able to do a second 500 and squeeze in a quick 50 before my 21 minutes were up. This was definitely my fastest swim ever, and I wasn't trying to be fast. I was just relaxing and enjoying the swim. Hmmm...maybe that's the trick? Oh, and another first for today - I passed the guy I was sharing the lane with. Okay, so he was old and was doing that old-fashioned backstroke (and not using his legs) at the time, but I passed him anyway. |
2009-04-22 12:44 PM in reply to: #2102402 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED serendipity - 2009-04-22 10:53 AM I have been having some really good swims lately. This morning was my "long" swim, but it is a recovery week for me so it was only 21 minutes. I got in the pool thinking I would do an easy 500 (since I can do that now), then just do some shorter swims to finish the time. I ended up doing 500 yds in less than 10 minutes and was able to do a second 500 and squeeze in a quick 50 before my 21 minutes were up. This was definitely my fastest swim ever, and I wasn't trying to be fast. I was just relaxing and enjoying the swim. Hmmm...maybe that's the trick? Oh, and another first for today - I passed the guy I was sharing the lane with. Okay, so he was old and was doing that old-fashioned backstroke (and not using his legs) at the time, but I passed him anyway. Woo hoo! I love personal bests. Congrats to you! Relaxing is the key, though it really is counter-intuitive. Glad the running shoe advice was helpful. Definitely go there next time you buy a pair. |
2009-04-22 1:18 PM in reply to: #2102402 |
Veteran 153 Northern VA | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED serendipity - 2009-04-22 10:53 AM This was definitely my fastest swim ever, and I wasn't trying to be fast. I was just relaxing and enjoying the swim. Hmmm...maybe that's the trick? QUOTE] Swim is sooo about technique, a lot of it isn't moving your arms faster or kicking your feet faster, its about being more effecient. Some of my PBs I was sure were not. My best 50 fly I swear I swolled the pool on my turn, but beat my old PB by 3 sec. ! That is a ton in a 50! Congrats on the great swim! |
2009-04-22 2:01 PM in reply to: #2068936 |
Regular 99 West Fargo | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Today I was REALLY lacking in motivation. Training schedule has me running 5 miles today. I had myself convinced that skipping it would better prepare me for Saturday's 9 miles. So I called my Hubby to get some motivation. That was a bust. He gave the line, "Your 36 years old, I don't need to tell you what to do. You know when the marathon is, and either you run today or you don't". WHAT THE HECK??? Thanx a million babe. Funny, as I hung up the phone and started to drive back from dropping my daughter off at school, the car in front of me had a license plate holder that said "Marathoner. I run 26.2" So, there it was. I'm talking myself out of 5? It could be 26.2. Just do it. So I did. Whew! Now it feels good to have it done. Took me 59.2 minutes, but it's done!!! Woohoo! Now I just hope I have the energy for tonights volleyball games. Quick question. Is it a problem that I'm in the "Cardio Zone" for heart rate zone for 50 of 59 minutes that I'm running? I know that for weight loss I should be in the 128-146 range. Today when I tried to slow my pace for the jog, it was harder...... Weight from last week: 175.5 weight this week: 174 At least it's moving down! Lets see if it keeps creeping next week! |
2009-04-22 2:34 PM in reply to: #2103190 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED sleeping_butterflies - 2009-04-22 3:01 PM Today I was REALLY lacking in motivation. Training schedule has me running 5 miles today. I had myself convinced that skipping it would better prepare me for Saturday's 9 miles. So I called my Hubby to get some motivation. That was a bust. He gave the line, "Your 36 years old, I don't need to tell you what to do. You know when the marathon is, and either you run today or you don't". WHAT THE HECK??? Thanx a million babe. Funny, as I hung up the phone and started to drive back from dropping my daughter off at school, the car in front of me had a license plate holder that said "Marathoner. I run 26.2" So, there it was. I'm talking myself out of 5? It could be 26.2. Just do it. So I did. Whew! Now it feels good to have it done. Took me 59.2 minutes, but it's done!!! Woohoo! Now I just hope I have the energy for tonights volleyball games. Quick question. Is it a problem that I'm in the "Cardio Zone" for heart rate zone for 50 of 59 minutes that I'm running? I know that for weight loss I should be in the 128-146 range. Today when I tried to slow my pace for the jog, it was harder...... Weight from last week: 175.5 weight this week: 174 At least it's moving down! Lets see if it keeps creeping next week! Shannon, I'm so glad to hear you were able to go out and just do it. Congrats on the weight loss, too. Down is down! I have trouble getting my HR down, too. If I cut my speed in half, it only goes down a few beats per minute! I'm not sure how you're defining your zones, but here is a link on BT from a tri coach that tells us the correct way to do it. It can be a little overwhelming at first, but I encourage everyone to read and re-read his post carefully. It's just really great stuff. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1 |
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2009-04-22 3:15 PM in reply to: #2103288 |
Member 52 | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Lora109 - 2009-04-22 3:34 PM Shannon, I'm so glad to hear you were able to go out and just do it. Congrats on the weight loss, too. Down is down! I have trouble getting my HR down, too. If I cut my speed in half, it only goes down a few beats per minute! I'm not sure how you're defining your zones, but here is a link on BT from a tri coach that tells us the correct way to do it. It can be a little overwhelming at first, but I encourage everyone to read and re-read his post carefully. It's just really great stuff. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1 Thanks, I was wondering about this too as 220-age = 196 which is too low for a max for me. One question though, what's a "TT"? Edited by XcaliburGirl 2009-04-22 3:15 PM |
2009-04-22 4:02 PM in reply to: #2103396 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED XcaliburGirl - 2009-04-22 4:15 PM Lora109 - 2009-04-22 3:34 PM Shannon, I'm so glad to hear you were able to go out and just do it. Congrats on the weight loss, too. Down is down! I have trouble getting my HR down, too. If I cut my speed in half, it only goes down a few beats per minute! I'm not sure how you're defining your zones, but here is a link on BT from a tri coach that tells us the correct way to do it. It can be a little overwhelming at first, but I encourage everyone to read and re-read his post carefully. It's just really great stuff. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1 Thanks, I was wondering about this too as 220-age = 196 which is too low for a max for me. One question though, what's a "TT"? Hey, Alicia. Glad it could help. "TT" stands for time trial. |
2009-04-22 4:44 PM in reply to: #2068936 |
New user 29 | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Sorry I haven't posted in a few days. I've been reading as I get the chance. I think I warned all of you work was going to be crazy for me this week! Question, I'm reading about everyone swimming 500's etc...how do you keep track of how far you swim? I think at the pool that I go to it's 25 yards long. I think I'll lose count of how many times I go back and forth. I'm getting ready to leave work now and my bf just called and said that our Golden has diarreah (sp?). I was planning to go to the gym on my way home to lift legs and run my planned 3.5 miles for today. I'm lacking motivation so was going to use the dog being sick as an excuse to go home and be lazy. I just got on here and read about what everyone else is doing and have decided to go home, let the dog out while I change, and run from home so I won't be gone as long. I'll lift legs at the gym another day this week. Thanks for the motivation everyone!! Now hopefully this rain holds off long enough for me to get out there and get back! |
2009-04-22 5:21 PM in reply to: #2103591 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Lora's First-Timers Women's Group - CLOSED Hey, Maggie. Sorry to hear about your pup's #2 issues, but way to adjust to your new circumstances. You just gave me an idea for a Tip of the When I Think of It! Stay tuned... |
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