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2009-06-08 8:13 AM
in reply to: #2099961

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Elite
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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!

During my race on Saturday I decided to try being at the front. I consider myself a pretty good, strong swimmer. Usually I stay towards the back or the sides.  I have never been punched, kicked or scratched like this in a race ever.  At one point I had two swimmers on either side of my shoulders swimming over me and pushing me under. At that point I held back and let them go, I caught them however at the 1st buoy and by then everyone is spread out so I had more room to go for it, which I did.  



2009-06-08 9:19 AM
in reply to: #2201428

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
brick94513 - 2009-06-08 6:07 AM I don't think its so much about swimming in the suit, but rather being comfortable in the open water.  The suit will provide greater bouyancy, glide, and even catch as some suits have ribbed panels on the arms.  However, if you've never worn a wetsuit, it is important to be familar with the fit, tightness, and how to remove the suit quickly.  It would be important to at least practice the transition before your race.

In my limited experience with OWS in the ocean, its going to be more important to work on using landmarks to stay on coarse, incorporating site breathing into your normal cadence, and be able to get clean breath strokes with chop and waves. 


x2 - i think that the suit helps, and its great to try and get used to the suit - but really what takes time is getting used to swimming in open water.  at first, it does throw you off, because in a pool you don't have to sight and you can see where you are going very easily.  in a lake - not so much.
2009-06-08 10:24 AM
in reply to: #2201689

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
It's strange that the swim in open water isn't what scares me.  Could it be that I'm used to swimming in lakes?  Or the fact that this lake is not too big (i.e., you can see the other side clearly)?  Obviously, I won't have to worry about chop, currents and boat traffic.  I'm more worried about the other people than anything the lake can throw at me.

As soon as it gets warm enough, I'll start training in a smaller lake where the water warms early.  There's nothing out there but swimmers and turtles.

Question to those of you who are experienced:  I am a strong breaststroke swimmer, but I know it's not very cool to do breaststroke during the race.  But I have better sight and breath control with breaststroke.  I plan to start BOP with freestyle, but will likely have to switch to breaststroke as I fatigue.  Will other racers care what stroke I do? 
2009-06-08 10:47 AM
in reply to: #2099961

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Master
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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Laura - you will be fine doing breast stroke.  you will likely so others, at some point in the race, doing freestyle, breaststroke, backstroke, floating around. . etc.  Nobody will call you out for not doing freestyle .  that being said, freestyle is the fastest for most people, so 95%+ will be doing freestyle
2009-06-08 11:13 AM
in reply to: #2099961

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Elite
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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!

I've seen allsorts. Backstroke, sidestroke, breastroke.  All of it really.

2009-06-08 12:20 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
I plan on using breaststroke when i get really tired or disoriented in a race.   


2009-06-08 12:35 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Elite
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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!

Lots of people do. I did get kicked by a breastroker however. 

2009-06-08 3:35 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Master
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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!

Well my race is approaching at the end of the month!  Curious how important do you think it is to tamper?  And, if you think it is an important aspect, when and how should I start? 

2009-06-08 3:49 PM
in reply to: #2203131

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
brick94513 - 2009-06-08 1:35 PM

Well my race is approaching at the end of the month!  Curious how important do you think it is to tamper?  And, if you think it is an important aspect, when and how should I start? 



how long is the race (sprint, OLY, etc)?  I think if you are doing one of those two distances, with your volumes, you won't need much of a taper.  Probably just cut down on volume a little bit the week of the race, and then take thursday off, friday - one short, very easy workout (20 min easy run or swim) just to keep the legs moving. 
2009-06-08 6:59 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Mike, it will be a sprint distance Xterra (600m-13mile-3mile).  I was thinking along the same lines (1 to 2 days rest).  I want to keep my volume up for longer races to come, but still want to be fresh on race day.
2009-06-08 8:40 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Yea, i know what you mean Tim.  i would say, with your volume, you can do it no problem on a couple days rest.  the last sprint i did (only tri of this year so far), which i think was in late april or early may or something - i did a 77 mile/6 mile brick the day before (first long ride of the season too!). . my race was definitly effected, but i was still able to put out a pretty solid effort.  however, i don't recommend this for a race that you want to do your best at!


2009-06-08 10:40 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
^^Ummm... I wasn't planning on anything like that!  Mike, that's crazy.  I was just wanting to keep up with my current plan and not cut any time or mileage.  Luckily, the day before the race will be a travel day and that will force me to relax and not train.
2009-06-08 11:13 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
yeah, i thought it was crazy too, but that is what the coach had on the plan, so i said ok!   are you doing any other races this year?  do you have a road/tri bike as well as a mtn bike?
2009-06-09 8:15 AM
in reply to: #2099961

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Mike, when training with your coach, what are some of the indicators that you look for for signs of improvement? I am looking to get more involved with monitoring my workouts as a form of tracking my progress, as opposed to just relying on race day efforts as I have in the past.
2009-06-09 8:29 AM
in reply to: #2204443

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Great question, Stuart.  I would also be interested in this.  I'm both a gadget person and pretty competitive, so I would like to be able to measure improvement with more accuracy than just knowing that I completed my weekly workouts.
2009-06-09 10:32 AM
in reply to: #2204080

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
ultrahip_00 - 2009-06-08 11:13 PM yeah, i thought it was crazy too, but that is what the coach had on the plan, so i said ok!   are you doing any other races this year?  do you have a road/tri bike as well as a mtn bike?


For now, the Xterra Tahoe is it.  In August, I have to decide between an Olympic distance Xterra or a 170 mile stage mountain bike race.  I'm leaning toward the bike race since I've never got a chance to ride in Utah.  Then, the Clif Bar Challenge MTB race in September.

I've been thinking of buying a tri-bike.  I would like to do a HIM (maybe the Wildflower).  I wish they would do an Xterra at that length.


2009-06-09 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
nevergivin - 2009-06-09 8:15 AM Mike, when training with your coach, what are some of the indicators that you look for for signs of improvement? I am looking to get more involved with monitoring my workouts as a form of tracking my progress, as opposed to just relying on race day efforts as I have in the past.


Also interested if you have done the VO2 max test?
2009-06-09 10:46 AM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Can you guys point me towards the best tri bike sizing chart. I dont have a good bike shop close to me and i really want to start looking on ebay and such for used bikes in my size.

I'm 6'0 but my legs are short - like 31.5-32" inseam.
2009-06-09 11:04 AM
in reply to: #2204982

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
brick94513 - 2009-06-09 8:44 AM
nevergivin - 2009-06-09 8:15 AM Mike, when training with your coach, what are some of the indicators that you look for for signs of improvement? I am looking to get more involved with monitoring my workouts as a form of tracking my progress, as opposed to just relying on race day efforts as I have in the past.


Also interested if you have done the VO2 max test?


my training levels are based on HR - and to get my HR levels i did a 30 min test where i basically pushed it as hard as i could, but kept a consistent speed - hit lap button after 10 mins on my watch, and my avg HR for the last 20 mins is my threshold, or 85% HR.  my Run and bike were pretty close, right around 180-181.  That puts most of my training around 160 HR - which is 75%, but lots of intervals around 175-185.  when i am fatigued (almost all the time, other then rest/taper weeks), i have a hell of a time getting up above upper 170's. 

I have not done a V02 max test, nor have i rechecked my HR levels/paces since i started working with a coach (a little over 2 months ago).  basically, i was so close to Boise when i started working with a coach, that the last two months have been a crash course of large volume, varying intensity workouts.  the structure has been good, as far as improvement but can be tough mentally. 

As far as seeing improvement, i have seen it in several ways - i can go the same speed or faster for longer distances.  and/or i recover so much quicker.  i used to get pretty sore/tired after a 10 mile run. . my plan consistently had me doing a 10 mile AM run, 1.5 - 2 hr PM bike, then a track workout (7-9 miles, 4ish at fast pace) the following PM.  recovery become huge once you start pushing your volume up
2009-06-09 11:16 AM
in reply to: #2204992

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Ringo311 - 2009-06-09 10:46 AM Can you guys point me towards the best tri bike sizing chart. I dont have a good bike shop close to me and i really want to start looking on ebay and such for used bikes in my size.

I'm 6'0 but my legs are short - like 31.5-32" inseam.


I have couple guys at my work that used to be professional road cyclists.  I asked them the same question in regards to a tri bike.  They stressed the importance of having the bike professionally fit.  Besides frame size, there are several factors that will contribute to proper fit: saddle height, saddle fore-aft positioning, stem size and angle, bar rise-drop, etc, etc.  Not to mention, personal preference to riding position.  There are places that will do the fit and provide you with all of these measurements, then you can look for a used bike that will fit the bill for you.
2009-06-09 11:21 AM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Mike, recovery is where I've seen my biggest improvement.  Lately, I've noticed that most of my bike rides I stay in Zones 3  and 4 and only make zone 5 on hard, sustained climbs.  But, afterwards, my heart rate immediately drops down.  The other day after a 35 mile ride, I only logged 2 minutes in zone 5.

Edited by brick94513 2009-06-09 11:23 AM


2009-06-09 11:37 AM
in reply to: #2205091

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
Do you all use the HR monitor with your Garmin when you train?  I forget to put it on, not really knowing my true HR zones, but used it the other day when I was biking.  My HR was between 135-155 which is between zones 3-4 for me.  Where should I be training to give myself a pretty good push?  I've been tired after each of my training days, but still able to get up and go again the next day.
2009-06-09 12:37 PM
in reply to: #2099961

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!

I use mine. It's always very high when I run but I put that down to just giving up smoking.

 

I bought a HR Zone training book too. Confuddled.

2009-06-09 1:03 PM
in reply to: #2205145

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Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
fleetfeet_ch - 2009-06-09 9:37 AM Do you all use the HR monitor with your Garmin when you train?  I forget to put it on, not really knowing my true HR zones, but used it the other day when I was biking.  My HR was between 135-155 which is between zones 3-4 for me.  Where should I be training to give myself a pretty good push?  I've been tired after each of my training days, but still able to get up and go again the next day.


Laura - it really varies from person to person.  if you do a similar test that i described earlier (while brutal), you can get an accurate number to go off of.  I think you have enough of a running background to do the test - those who haven't ran much will not want to push that hard for that long, for risk of injury. 

My HR zones that i train in vary quite a bit from workout to workout but generally are something like this:
warm up - 10 to 15 mins - gradually getting to 65-70% (155ish)
Main set - some sort of short or long intervals - 75% (160) if long intervals, up to 85-90% (180-185) if short

CD - get back down to 65 and below % 

for long rides, i typically just WU, and then ride around 150-155 for the whole time. 

as you get more miles under your belt, you will be able to push harder for longer and be less tired.
2009-06-09 2:36 PM
in reply to: #2205046

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: ultrahip_00's Mentor Group - Closed Again!
ultrahip_00 - 2009-06-09 9:04 AM
brick94513 - 2009-06-09 8:44 AM
nevergivin - 2009-06-09 8:15 AM Mike, when training with your coach, what are some of the indicators that you look for for signs of improvement? I am looking to get more involved with monitoring my workouts as a form of tracking my progress, as opposed to just relying on race day efforts as I have in the past.


Also interested if you have done the VO2 max test?


my training levels are based on HR - and to get my HR levels i did a 30 min test where i basically pushed it as hard as i could, but kept a consistent speed - hit lap button after 10 mins on my watch, and my avg HR for the last 20 mins is my threshold, or 85% HR.  my Run and bike were pretty close, right around 180-181.  That puts most of my training around 160 HR - which is 75%, but lots of intervals around 175-185.  when i am fatigued (almost all the time, other then rest/taper weeks), i have a hell of a time getting up above upper 170's. 

I have not done a V02 max test, nor have i rechecked my HR levels/paces since i started working with a coach (a little over 2 months ago).  basically, i was so close to Boise when i started working with a coach, that the last two months have been a crash course of large volume, varying intensity workouts.  the structure has been good, as far as improvement but can be tough mentally. 

As far as seeing improvement, i have seen it in several ways - i can go the same speed or faster for longer distances.  and/or i recover so much quicker.  i used to get pretty sore/tired after a 10 mile run. . my plan consistently had me doing a 10 mile AM run, 1.5 - 2 hr PM bike, then a track workout (7-9 miles, 4ish at fast pace) the following PM.  recovery become huge once you start pushing your volume up


Thanks Mike,when I am doing a program I do monthly threshhold tests, sorry, It never occured to me to compare HR levels when performing tests. I guess this would be an accurate indicator of my fitness.  Maybe what I was trying to ask is how do you calculate your pacing on your tempo runs and bike, is that strickly done on RPE or HR or do you have or are you trying to maintain a certain speed?
I use spinervals on the bike to do my bike test, and D3 article for the run,I dont bother for the swim.
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