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2010-01-20 2:19 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
go4girl - 2010-01-20 5:57 PM

Hello....I know I don't say much on this forum, but I want you all to know I read what you're all talking about almost daily. My training is off to a slow start due to illness, myself and family, so I'm fitting in practices when I can right now. I've found the website to be very helpful with swim programs...month by month practices building week by week. I too have an issue breathing on the left side and have found the side kick extention drill has really helped with that. I have a question about bikes. You all seem to be very keen on road bikes. Do you think it will be possible for me to complete a sprint using my mountain bike? I'm not looking to break any speed records, I just want to cross the finish line alive. In the summer I was riding 20 to 25k with out any problem, mind you I wasn't racing or training, just riding around.



Hi, sorry to hear about the difficulties you're having getting training time in - any little blocks at the beginning you can fit in will benefit you down the line when you are able to dedicate more time so keep at it.

Re your question re the bike - yes you can do a sprint on the MTB - 20k is not too far. Without a doubt you will do better on a roadie and probably enjoy it more but yes MTB's are fine. As i said in a previous post, if you do choose a MTB at least try and get slicks on - it will make a heap of difference. Also, as some of the other guys have said, your legs will be more tired after the bike leg than on a roadie therefore possibly making the run harder.

When i was considering my first 160k bike ride a guy i worked with was telling me he'd done it 5 times - 3 of those on a MTB. And he told me he enjoyed the event more on it. He wasn't talking about beating times etc, just taking in the event and enjoying it.

So yes, you can of course use your MTB in a sprint. Here in NZ, triathlon is the biggest growing sport and most people first try it out using what kit they have - i've not actually been in one yet but have watched an event and there were plenty of people on MTB's.

Go for it! And good luck with your training!

Lewis.

Edited by lbishop 2010-01-20 2:53 AM


2010-01-20 7:05 AM
in reply to: #2623289

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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

go4girl - 2010-01-19 11:57 PM

Hello....I know I don't say much on this forum, but I want you all to know I read what you're all talking about almost daily. My training is off to a slow start due to illness, myself and family, so I'm fitting in practices when I can right now. I've found the website to be very helpful with swim programs...month by month practices building week by week. I too have an issue breathing on the left side and have found the side kick extention drill has really helped with that. I have a question about bikes. You all seem to be very keen on road bikes. Do you think it will be possible for me to complete a sprint using my mountain bike? I'm not looking to break any speed records, I just want to cross the finish line alive. In the summer I was riding 20 to 25k with out any problem, mind you I wasn't racing or training, just riding around.

Good to have you with us!  Hopefully the winter illnesses will stay away from you and your family!!

As Lewis has said, and others in earlier posts, there will be plenty of people doing sprints on mtb!  My advice would be if the only reason you will be riding this summer is to complete the sprint, it obviously doesn't make sense to spend a lot on a bike.  Making the mtb as comfortable for road use with road tires is probably the best money spent, unless you have a friend or family member you can borrow a road bike from!  You will be better prepared for the run coming off a road/tri bike than a mtb!  But, those that race on mtb have just as big a smile on their face crossing the finish line as those with big $$$ bikes!  (Sometimes a bigger smile!)

My hope, and the reason I like mentoring, is that you will see the benefit of tri training for your health, weight and overall fitness and after (or even before) you get to your first race you will fall in love with the sport!  Then you can more than justify the expense of either a road bike or tri bike or both!  Because you will get up before everyone else in the house or stay up after everyone has gone to bed to get your workouts in because you want to, not because you have to! 

2010-01-20 7:15 AM
in reply to: #2578675

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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Good advice Doug on everyone getting to the pool!!!

As far as kicking goes, doing kick drills and kicking better will make you a better swimmer overall.  Tri specific swimming usually minimizes the kicking to save the legs some, plus you will find that in the open water with the wet suit on your legs will float more and you really don't need the kick to keep the legs out of the water.  But, I wouldn't shy away from improving your kick, or learning other strokes as well if you have the time in the pool.  The value of knowing other strokes and kicking well just adds to your comfort and balance in the water.

I wouldn't get overly worked up over bi-lateral breathing (breathing from both sides).  It is something you should work towards learning, but until you get to a point where swimming is not difficult and you have the endurance to get from the start to finish of your tri, this should not be a worry.  That said, those that bi-lateral breath well do so because they have good balance in the water and are very comfortable with their stroke.  Obviously something that would benefit us all, but even with good stroke basics, time in the water is big part of reaching this comfort level. 

I should do a better job of practicing what I preach and get a little purple in my graphs!

2010-01-20 2:46 PM
in reply to: #2578675

Subject: a wasted day
i missed a day of workout due to working late last night (I work a late 2nd shift) and then not getting up on time. now im feeling a bit guilty.
2010-01-20 3:57 PM
in reply to: #2624730

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Subject: RE: a wasted day
I just take that as your body telling you you needed a break for a day.  Back on the train tomorrow!  Im off for day 2 week 4 C25K.
2010-01-20 6:41 PM
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Subject: RE: a wasted day

DougJ - 2010-01-20 3:46 PM i missed a day of workout due to working late last night (I work a late 2nd shift) and then not getting up on time. now im feeling a bit guilty.

None of us do this for a living, and probably all of us have things that take priority from time to time.  Although I am a big proponant of scheduling time for yourself each day, sometimes life just gets in the way!  Come race day, if you have hit 80% of your workouts as scheduled, you won't have any worries about a couple of missed workouts! 

 



2010-01-20 7:29 PM
in reply to: #2625175

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Subject: RE: a wasted day
Hey everyone! Sorry it has been so long. I didn't end up running in Indiana mainly because I was sick and also busy visiting family. Now I'm back on track and doing my workouts. I missed quite a few while I was gone and I'm thinking about doubling up on some days. I completed the couch to 5K about two months ago, and then took some time off (still ran and biked, but didn't do it with the same dedication as when I had a plan). January I started the last month of the couch to 5K again to get me going before I start the 20 week sprint training. I have 4 bikes and 4 runs to make up. Is it worth trying to double up? Should I just skip ahead if I can do the times successfully? Thanks
2010-01-20 8:14 PM
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Subject: RE: a wasted day
We do this for fun not to find another way to beat ourselves up.  The mental game is as important as all the rest.  Stay positive.  So you missed a day.  So what.  Rest days are important too. 

As for making up missed workouts, my coach says there is no such thing.  Pick up where you left off and get back on the horse.  This is so much fun, isn't  it?

2010-01-20 8:41 PM
in reply to: #2625352

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Subject: RE: a wasted day
IceManScott - 2010-01-21 3:14 PM We do this for fun not to find another way to beat ourselves up.  The mental game is as important as all the rest.  Stay positive.  So you missed a day.  So what.  Rest days are important too. 

As for making up missed workouts, my coach says there is no such thing.  Pick up where you left off and get back on the horse.  This is so much fun, isn't  it?



Agreed. Don't try and fit in extra workouts - you'll risk over-training or worse, injury. You can if you feel so inclined miss a week here and there as you progress to 'catch up' but as soon as you feel the week's are too hard bring it down a notch again.

For example, if you're on a 16 week plan and miss weeks 4,5 & 6, pick up with 4 & 5, then maybe the next week go straight to 7, 8 (missing 6) then to 10... you get the idea. Otherwise just understand that at week 16 you may only be up to week 13. One important thing though would be make sure you're following proven methods such as build, build, peak, rest and especially tapering towards the end. If you don't 'play catchup' your week 13 (when your race may be scheduled) may not be a taper week and it's unlikely to be in this example.

Me personally, i would try the catch up method described above as long as the missed weeks were not significant enough to make the next workout too hard. This is so that once i got into the right week i could be confident the plan was back on track. Well done for getting back at it though.

Lewis.

Edited by lbishop 2010-01-20 8:43 PM
2010-01-20 10:06 PM
in reply to: #2578675

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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Quick question...internet is obviously full of info. We have some great info about swimming and such, but I wondered what everyone has found for the correct form for cycling and running. The youtube vids for swimming look so smooth. It makes it seem like it is so easy, even though I know it took time to learn. Good inspiration!
2010-01-20 10:55 PM
in reply to: #2625581

Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I believe as IceMan has said, swimming is a learned ability. If you learn bad technique and stay with it you will have a harder time correcting it. However I don't feel that way on running. Once a body gets to a certain point/age, motor skills dictate movement. Then we have to adapt to that. Biking is a learned skill too. Most my (little) bike knowledge comes from reading (magazines, internet), watching (videos, televised events) and asking questions (at bike events, organized rides through the club). not real sure if this is what you were looking for, but there it is.


2010-01-20 11:04 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
On the right track but I was curious more as to the resources you were using. You mentioned some reads and internet material for cycling. Scott gave us the swimming and I just wondered what you found for running and cycling that is similar to that.
2010-01-21 7:36 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Sources I've found include:

- Check out Chi Running, the book and the videos.  Examples on youtube.com   It is a method to use posture and technique to reduce or eliminate injury and run easier longer.  Really works.  I'd love to get to one of his workshops.

- Biking is included included in the Triathlete's Bible.  Good information there on choosing the right bike, making it and yourself more aero, cadence, power, training with heart rate, etc.    Bicycling magazine has a good email newsletter.  Also every Thursday roadbikerider.com produces a really good biking newsletter for free.  Great information on distance biking, sprinting, training, bike maintenance, etc.  Get it.   

- Swimming.  Masters Asso and Total Immersion books and vids. 

All those sources are helping me so much along with my coach.  Coaches are pricey but they are priceless when you find the right one. I wouldn't be where I am if not for him.  I only got him because I'm 58, got started late in life and want to race an IronMan someday.  I have to use the time I have efficiently and he is helping do it.   It's a stretch for a working guy, but I've given up lots of other things so spending wise it was a wash.  My wife is incredibly supportive.  I think it keeps me out of her hair.

The best magazines I've found anywhere for any sport are Triathlete and Triathlete Life (which comes with your USAT membership.)  They have usable beginning to expert articles that are well written and adaptable.



  

2010-01-21 8:51 AM
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Subject: RE: a wasted day

lbishop - 2010-01-20 9:41 PM
IceManScott - 2010-01-21 3:14 PM We do this for fun not to find another way to beat ourselves up.  The mental game is as important as all the rest.  Stay positive.  So you missed a day.  So what.  Rest days are important too. 

As for making up missed workouts, my coach says there is no such thing.  Pick up where you left off and get back on the horse.  This is so much fun, isn't  it?



Agreed. Don't try and fit in extra workouts - you'll risk over-training or worse, injury. You can if you feel so inclined miss a week here and there as you progress to 'catch up' but as soon as you feel the week's are too hard bring it down a notch again.

For example, if you're on a 16 week plan and miss weeks 4,5 & 6, pick up with 4 & 5, then maybe the next week go straight to 7, 8 (missing 6) then to 10... you get the idea. Otherwise just understand that at week 16 you may only be up to week 13. One important thing though would be make sure you're following proven methods such as build, build, peak, rest and especially tapering towards the end. If you don't 'play catchup' your week 13 (when your race may be scheduled) may not be a taper week and it's unlikely to be in this example.

Me personally, i would try the catch up method described above as long as the missed weeks were not significant enough to make the next workout too hard. This is so that once i got into the right week i could be confident the plan was back on track. Well done for getting back at it though.

Lewis.

You are right Lewis, if missing several weeks of a training plan most people shouldn't just skip the weeks.  Especially since missing that much of a plan was probably caused by an injury. 

The only thing I would add, if you miss a workout and you have a rest day you could switch the rest day with the missed workout!  However, most plans would have the rest day before key workouts or long days.  So it would not be wise to put a hard workout into a rest day before a long run or bike. 

2010-01-21 8:56 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

selonimes - 2010-01-21 12:04 AM On the right track but I was curious more as to the resources you were using. You mentioned some reads and internet material for cycling. Scott gave us the swimming and I just wondered what you found for running and cycling that is similar to that.

I have gotten the bulk of my run/bike knowledge from reading the forums here on BT, reading Triathlon, Running Times and Runners World magazines and their respective websites.  Some of the info in the forums have lead me to other resources and websites.  The trouble with all of this info is that it is generally opinion based by the writers.  Figuring out what is best for you can be confusing.  Nothing wrong with trying new things if you are careful and don't go to extremes.  For me, I try to keep all this stuff as simple as possible, but I do have a weakness when it comes to gadgets!

Another plug for the resources here on BT, look through the articles.  Some of them are written by members sharing thier experiences, others are by respected coachs, physicians and nutritionists. 



Edited by kenj 2010-01-21 8:57 AM
2010-01-21 8:58 AM
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Subject: RE: a wasted day

geoffgm - 2010-01-20 8:29 PM Hey everyone! Sorry it has been so long. I didn't end up running in Indiana mainly because I was sick and also busy visiting family. Now I'm back on track and doing my workouts. I missed quite a few while I was gone and I'm thinking about doubling up on some days. I completed the couch to 5K about two months ago, and then took some time off (still ran and biked, but didn't do it with the same dedication as when I had a plan). January I started the last month of the couch to 5K again to get me going before I start the 20 week sprint training. I have 4 bikes and 4 runs to make up. Is it worth trying to double up? Should I just skip ahead if I can do the times successfully? Thanks

Good to see you back Geoff!  Too bad about being sick while traveling and visiting family!!!



2010-01-21 10:50 AM
in reply to: #2625983

Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
+1



kenj - 2010-01-21 9:56 AM

,but I do have a weakness when it comes to gadgets!

2010-01-22 1:31 AM
in reply to: #2578675

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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Well i'm signing out for a while now, got a late xmas/new year vacation week with the family before school for the kids re-starts in February. I'll still be fitting in some runs with the dog, swims (including trying out the wetsuit) and some core work but it'll pretty much be a rest week for me.

Time for a challenge after the 1st one at New Year (which is the ONLY reason i did my run that day - thank you!!!). I challenge everyone in the group to do at least half of their planned workouts for the next week - if you don't feel you can do the complete sessions at least do what you can!

Look forward to getting back next week and see what's been going on! Have a good week all.

Lewis.

Edited by lbishop 2010-01-22 2:45 AM
2010-01-22 7:27 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

lbishop - 2010-01-22 2:31 AM Well i'm signing out for a while now, got a late xmas/new year vacation week with the family before school for the kids re-starts in February. I'll still be fitting in some runs with the dog, swims (including trying out the wetsuit) and some core work but it'll pretty much be a rest week for me.

Time for a challenge after the 1st one at New Year (which is the ONLY reason i did my run that day - thank you!!!). I challenge everyone in the group to do at least half of their planned workouts for the next week - if you don't feel you can do the complete sessions at least do what you can!

Look forward to getting back next week and see what's been going on! Have a good week all.

Lewis.

Great challenge Lewis!!!! 

Have a great vacation!!!

2010-01-22 12:08 PM
in reply to: #2578675

Subject: Treadmill
I run all my treadmill runs at a 2% incline as a base. I may go up for a bit of strengthening, but never less than 2%. My thought behind this is, road running and treadmill are two different types of running and maybe a 2%incline would more simulate a road run.Any thoughts from the masses?
2010-01-22 12:37 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I do 99.9 % of my planned workouts.  I pay good money to have a guy lay them out...skipping would be the same as tossing the cash on a bonfire. 

I don't run on treadmills.  I read they are bad for your knees.  I do indoor tracks when I can't get outdoors.  Also, treadmills are dangerous for me.  I have a habit of running and meditating at the same time...I could zip right off the back of one of those suckers.  :/


2010-01-22 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill

DougJ - 2010-01-22 1:08 PM I run all my treadmill runs at a 2% incline as a base. I may go up for a bit of strengthening, but never less than 2%. My thought behind this is, road running and treadmill are two different types of running and maybe a 2%incline would more simulate a road run.Any thoughts from the masses?

I've read that 1% simulates outside flat ground.  But if you are doing 2, you are that much ahead of the game! 

I hadn't heard that about knees and treadmills Scott, I've been fortunate that I do a lot of my off season training on the treadmill and haven't had any problems. 

2010-01-22 2:04 PM
in reply to: #2629161

Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Not a Dr. but I don't quite understand the logic behind the treadmill/knee thing. I would think that a treadmill would be more forgiving than a road or trail due to the springiness on the tread. Very similar to the "shox" type of running shoes that were made. But then again, only 2 more months of this crap (weather) and I should be able to find a day or so a week to get outside.
2010-01-22 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

I certainly prefer the outside like most.  This time of year it is tough to get outside during the week.  Frustrating this week that I am in an area I should and have in the past gotten outside even before daylight, but there have been record rains and wind storms since I got here! Maybe it will clear up this weekend!!!

 

2010-01-22 5:10 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
DougJ - 2010-01-22 3:04 PM Very similar to the "shox" type of running shoes that were made.
Funny enough Doug when I went to a running shop they said that Nike Shox, and other sneakers like that are horrible for your knees. I think the main thing is that you have a bounce that has to be absorbed, and what happens is that it is your knees and ankles that absorb the bounce back up. So instead of your body just taking the beating on the road, you get a double whammy. Think of it like running on a trampoline. That of course is extreme but you see what I mean. Speaking of knees lol...I had an off day today. Tried to do my run but it was in the middle of the day for one, not used to the heat, and two I did not have enough to eat. So I learned two things today all good things. The knee issue though is that I notice that behind my knee it a tad sore and I wondered if besides stretching it out if those knee band things actually work. Thanks for the input and have a great night.
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