Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL (Page 11)

I'm on vacation this week with no bike so running again. I'm going to try and get in the pool later but it's pretty small. At least I can practice my turns...

Controlling effort\heart rate seems to be getting easier.I can feel when I'm going too hard and can dial it back fairly quickly.  Going easy seems to help as well - no pain and I feel ready to do it again in a couple hours...

29:59 - 2.37 miles

g,

I'm about 32 days out from running my first Sprint TRI.  The training is coming along really well (in my mind!!!) and I'm feeling confident about hitting the distances (400 meter swim, 12 mile bike, 2.25 run).  I was out browsing GordoWorld earlier today and under gTips I read your pacing tips for doing the 1/2 IR and IR.  My first Tri will be a much shorter distance than 1/2 IR but should I use a similar strategy that you detailed for the 1/2 IR (i.e.. go out easy on the swim it really does not matter all that much, start slowly during the bike, etc..)?  Obviously I will be monitoring the HR throughout the bike and the run and I believe I know "my" zones (it's interesting now that I find myself playing a HR guessing game when I workout - I'm getting pretty good at hitting the number exactly when working harder - still a little difficult to guess the HR when I cooling down).  Anyway, outside of monitoring the HR is there a gTips pacing guide for the 1st timer Sprint?

Jeff

Jeff,

 Tips for your first sprint... yes, I think caution on the swim start is important.  I can remember my first ever swim start and that advice would have helped make my race more comfortable.

 In terms of how to play it... make sure to enjoy the experience -- there will be plenty of other races (if you like the first) where you can "be serious".  That said, you may be looking for more tips than "have fun".  Here goes...

When thinking about your effort across the race... I find that aiming for your HR to increase by 10 bpm each sport (swim/bike/run) results in excellent pacing.  

So... have an honest chat with yourself in terms of where your average run HR is likely to be and cap yourself 10 bpm under that number for your bike.  Start the bike 15 bpm under your run number, settle, then move to 10 bpm under.

 I will use myself as an example... if I pace well then I can probably run 170 bpm.  So, that implies riding around 160 bpm.  Early in the bike, I would settle to 155 bpm then build to (and hold) 160 bpm.  

After the race, I would review my HR data and see how well I managed to hit averages of 150/160/170 bpm for each of swim/bike/run.  Over time, you will have more knowledge about your body, your training, your racing... and you can fine tune.  It is most difficult to learn how to swim relaxed -- that is a skill that takes a lot of practice when surrounded by people.

 Know that most people struggle with effective pacing and expect that you will get a lot of social feedback that it is OK to hammer early and die on the run.  We've all done it!  However, if you build the experience to be strong at the end... it will serve you well over your tri-career. 

Hope this helps,

g

12/28/08

1250 yrd swim - easy, getting my laps in

30 bike - trainer ride (12-17 mph)

Question: Should I worry about riding in "arrow position" on the trainer?  Or should I just get my time in and spin?

 Getting the time in is most important.  

However, logging time in the TT position is also useful.  Riding TT position on the trainer is less comfortable because we are a lot more static than on the road.  Even when we think we aren't moving (on the road) we are constantly shifting little bits.

 So... if you find that your TT position isn't very comfortable then trainer rides are a good time to dial in a comfortable TT position.  In my experience, bike comfort is a very important consideration for being able run well off the bike.

 For shorter, TT specific sessions, like big gear training... I like using the trainer because I don't have to worry about steering, stopping, etc... 

 So like a lot of areas... it depends! :-)  

Hope this helps,

g

Excellent.  I'll work on dial'n it in over the next few days!  thnx.

Sweet, thanks  

Thanks.  That is exactly what I was looking for.  For the run I'm currently running in the 135-140 bpm range.  On the bike I'm currently training at 125 bpm per your earlier suggestion.  Both of these are really comfortable for me today and I know I can sustain these rates for the entire distance of my first TRI.  So, 120 start to 125 sustained on the bike and 140 on the run are perfect. 

The swim is the only variable that is questionable at this point for me.  Currently I struggle with getting relaxed in the water when I have a lane to myself with nobody else in the pool.  I know I can do the 400 meters in 10-11 minutes but......  As you said I don't want to get all hyped in the pool and not have gas for the rest of the race.  It's good that the swim for my 1st is not OW.  I think eventually I'll be able to relax in the pool.... It's just going to take a little time (i.e... practice). 

Regarding FUN.  That's what it's all about.  This might sound strange but I'm actually having fun training for this thing.

Jeff

Thanks.  That is exactly what I was looking for.  For the run I'm currently running in the 135-140 bpm range.  On the bike I'm currently training at 125 bpm per your earlier suggestion.  Both of these are really comfortable for me today and I know I can sustain these rates for the entire distance of my first TRI.  So, 120 start to 125 sustained on the bike and 140 on the run are perfect. 

The swim is the only variable that is questionable at this point for me.  Currently I struggle with getting relaxed in the water when I have a lane to myself with nobody else in the pool.  I know I can do the 400 meters in 10-11 minutes but......  As you said I don't want to get all hyped in the pool and not have gas for the rest of the race.  It's good that the swim for my 1st is not OW.  I think eventually I'll be able to relax in the pool.... It's just going to take a little time (i.e... practice). 

Regarding FUN.  That's what it's all about.  This might sound strange but I'm actually having fun training for this thing.

Jeff

 Thanks for the Bday wishes.  For the swim (and indoor trainer rides)... what really helps me is a written plan, in advance, for me to execute.  When I don't write out my plan, I tend not to be as productive with my time.

 Ideas for you follow, and attached....

 +++

 EC Swim Workouts

Bold need to be defined terms with clickthrough to definition

EC-S1_12345 Swim

4x25

4x50 Easy on 10s rest

4x75 Steady on 10s rest

+++

100 Easy on 10s rest;

200 Steady on 10s rest

300 as 100 Mod-hard, 100 Steady, 100 Easy on 15s rest

400 Alternate 100 Mod-hard with 100 Easy on 20s rest

500 Steady

+++

Optional Additional Main Set

Reverse the first main set, swimming from 500 down to 100

+++

Cool Down

EC-S2_DB Swim

Distance Builder

This entire swim is Easy to Steady effort on 10-15s rest

2x25, 50

2x25, 100

4x25, 2x100

4x25, 2x125

4x25, 2x150

4x25, 200

4x25, 250

4x25, 300

Focus on relaxed swimming with three-stroke breathing.

Swim can be extended by continuing the progression with an extra 50 or 100 added to the continuous swim.

EC-S3_Build Up Swim

This entire swim is Easy to Steady effort on 10-15s rest

2x25, 100

2x25, 200

2x25, 300

2x25, 400

2x25, 500

2x25, 350

2x25, 250

2x25, 150

Focus on relaxed swimming with three-stroke breathing.

Swim can be extended by inserting “2x25, 450” immediately after the 500.

EC-S4_ESE Swim

Early Season Endurance

25s are Easy effort on 5s rest; 100s are Steady effort on 10s rest

4x25, 100

4x25, 2x100

4x25, 3x100

4x25, 2x100

4x25, 100

4x25, 200

4x25, 300

4x25, 200

4x25, 100

This swim can be extended by increasing the top of the 100s pyramid and adding a corresponding increase to the continuous swim.  For example:

4x25, 100

4x25, 2x100

4x25, 3x100

4x25, 4x100

4x25, 3x100

4x25, 2x100

4x25, 100

4x25, 200

4x25, 300

4x25, 400

4x25, 300

4x25, 200

4x25, 100

EC-S5_4321 Swim

4x100 Easy, then 400 Steady

3x100 Easy, then 300 Steady

2x100 Easy, then 200 Steady

100 Easy, then 100 Steady

All done on 10s rest

+++

12x50, on 15s rest

Odds are Easy

Evens are Mod-hard

+++

This swim can be extended by adding a continuous interval following the 50s.  Use three-stroke breathing and change pace between Easy and Steady on each 100.

+++

Cool Down

EC-S6_Continuous Swim 1,000

400 Easy on 15s rest

4x100 Steady on 10s rest

4x50 Descend on 5s rest

200 Easy

+++

1,000 Continuous

Look to Build the swim very gradually.

Overall goal is the distance, not the pace.

This workout is about training your mind as much as your body.

+++

This swim can be extended by adding a set of Easy or Steady 200s before cooling down

+++

Cool Down

EC-S7_Twin Ks Swim

Goal of the entire workout is to swim the second 1,000 faster than the first

+++

400 Easy and relaxed on 15s rest

4x75 Steady with the middle 25 Fast on 10s rest

200 Alternating 50 Steady with 50 Mod-hard on 15s rest

100 easy

+++

1,000 start Easy and build to Steady effort (note time)

4x50 easy and relaxed

1,000 swim faster than the first one (note change in effort required to swim faster)

+++

This swim can be extended by adding a set of Easy or Steady 200s before cooling down

+++

Cool Down

23 min run + 40 mins ST

run breakdown:

AVERAGE HR:  129

PEAK HR:  140

starting HR:  79

10 min walk @ 3.8:  HR 116

increased pace to 4.0

HR @ 4 mins:  131

maintained 4.0 pace

HR @ 9 mins:  131

decreased pace to 3.8

HR @ 10 mins:  118

increased pace to 4.3

HR @ 14 mins:  134

maintained 4.3 pace

HR @ 19 mins:  137

decreased pace to 3.8

HR @ 20 mins:  119

increased pace to 4.3

HR @ 23 mins:  131

decreased pace to 3.8

5 min walk @ 3.8:  111

i 'eliminated' two walking 'intervals' (at 4 min & 14 min), curious to see the difference it would make in my HR.  experimenting a little.  feeling my way.  getting used to paying attention to my HR/effort.

no sharp peaks, slow&'even' increases and decreases.

at times, found myself 'lurching', 'pushing' as if needed to get somewhere soon/quick.  (why?  im on a treadmill....)  this inner 'driveness' certainly translates into my ordinary life.  i talk to myself a lot, 'why in such a rush, all the time?'

learning to be focused, relaxed.  easy, steady pace.  still 'working' but not 'rushing'

a definate shift, but one worth making.

steady as she goes....

G-Man:

Although I swam and biked yesterday, taking the day off from running was as good as a rest day for me....my run went much, much better today (Duh!). 

3 miles    29:44 total    ran last mile in 8's.   Few small hills....and had something left in the tank.

Today's Question:  If I train "extra" in any one category should it be my weakest event or should I put the energy into the swim, bike, run, weights, streaching, cross-training for fun or something else?

Heart Rate Notes from Spin Class Today

(55min w/ stretches)

Part of work out: MinHR-MaxHR
WU/Recoveries: 90-100bmp
Seated Hills: 110-122bmp
Jumps (Sit/Stand): 124-145bpm, Mostly 135-140 range
Single Leg Work: 100-110bpm
Energy Sprints: 110-145bpm

I seem to max out around 145 sprinting and on the jumps. I think I've gone higher on standing hills before, but we didn't do that this time. Maybe tomorrow and then I can compare.

I think a bit extra of any session would be fine.  No fixed rules, there.  Overall, I'd say 3x each sport consistently.  Then go longer once per week (each sport).  Get that rolling for 12-16 weeks and see how things go.

The next step after that is adding an extra session here-and-there // as well as // longer "fun" days when you have the energy and time in your schedule (often these are race days, but they don't have to be races).

g

Mornin all,

Hope everyone had a good christmas.   I'm glad to be home, nothing like sleeping in your own bed.

Question, I'm working on the couck to 5k plan right now, only have a month left.  Hubby and I are planning on doing a 5k race June 6th.  Would it be possible for me to up that to the 10k or is that being too aggresive? 

Mel,

Welcome back.  I think with over 5 months to train going from a 5k to a 10k is possible.  If you only have 1 month left of couch to 5k, I would try to find a local 5k race in the next 2 months and see where you are at in your training.  The race in itself will be a good learning experience.  Then jump on a 10k plan and knock that out in June.  Again, I think you can get it done.

Brian

Sorry I'm a little late to the game with this but here goes.

NAME:  Melissa or Mel

STORY:  Have always wanted to do a tri but like many people didn't realize until a few years ago that there were shorter distance tris out there.  Grew up in the water, swam on teams up through HS team, then after HS didn't do a darn thing.  I was a person (and still am a little) that needed a set time or a team counting on me to get me into gear.  So gained a bunch of weight (having two kids helped add the lbs too).  About a year ago I just got fed up with myself, cuz I knew how I used to look and feel in HS and wanted that back.  So I started to walk/run on the TM and cut my calories way back by writing down everything I ate.  Had to learn what a real serving size is.  The weight started coming off but after a few months my knees gave up cuz I was running WAY to much so soon.  Took a few months off and found this site, signed up and printed off the couch to 5k plan which I put on the fridge and have stuck to.  Now I'm looking forward to this summer and doing that first Tri that I never though I would do but always wanted to.

FAMILY STATUS:  Married with two wee ones.

CURRENT TRAINING:  Last month on the couch to 5k plan then I have to figure it out from there.

2009 RACES:  June 6th 5k or maybe 10k,     June 27 first Sprint Tri,     Aug 17 Sprint Tri,     maybe just maybe Sept 6th Oly Tri

WEIGHT LOSS:  10 maybe 15lbs but would rather trade for muscle so that number would then go out the window

WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD MENTEE:  I love to gather info and I am so excited about this summer and finding out what I can do.  Being a part of a group and able to ask questions will help me stay on track and not do more than I should.

So thank you to everybody in advance (HUGE Thank you to Gordo), I'm so excited to be a part of this group and a part of everyones journey.  I can't wait till we can start compairing stories about our first Tri experiences.

Thanks Brian!  I'll have to see if there are any races around here (I don't think so, probably would have to head more your way).  There really is not a whole lot this time of year (or really anytime of year) in northern Indy.  Where have you found is the best place to look for local races?  Is there a good site that collects all race info?

 Where have you found is the best place to look for local races?  Is there a good site that collects all race info?

There are a lot of good sources to find races.  BT site under races is one.  I usually find local running races under CARA website (Chicago running website, but also have Indy races listed) and Runners World website under race finder.  You can find triathlons under trifind.com.  That should be a decent start.  You can always Google local 5k.

BB

Mel,

 I'd back Brian's advice as well.

 A general point for all of us to be aware of... when things are "going well" we will all have a tendency to push ourselves -- with more training; with faster training; with tougher goals.  This is natural.  Be aware of this natural urge to make things tough on ourselves (not sure where it comes from, advertising & media?).  The reason it is important to watch is that longer, faster, tougher... do not always result in more satisfaction.  In our busy lives, even a little too much, can limit the satisfaction, and stress release, we get from athletics.

 With regard to racing... if performance is your goal then you will find that you perform best at a distance that is under your endurance.  In other words, race shorter than your longest training sessions.

 That said... for things like Half Ironman and Ironman racing... it can be difficult to train longer than the event.  In that case, remember that it isn't a "race" in the normal sense of the word -- the event is more about going the distance and will require a different mindset to when we "race".

 When I started... a sprint tri was a lot like that... my only goal was to finish.  I couldn't even wrap my head around the concept of an olympic distance race.

 g

I haven’t posted in a few days due to Christmas but I did manage to get in a ride on Christmas Eve, a run on Christmas Day and another run on Saturday while in Alabama visiting my in-laws. My run in Alabama was really challenging, since it was impossible to find someplace close to the house that was flat!  While my HR was higher than normal due to the hills the weather was 75 degrees and made the effort worthwhile.    I also got a Forerunner 305 for Christmas and let me tell you this thing is amazing!  I’m still learning how to use it and have a question about setting up the HR zones.  Based on Gordo’s formula, my Easy zone is 127, Steady is 137 and Moderately-Hard is 147.  Therefore I set the zones (see below)… do these ranges make sense (the threshold and VO2 are the default settings)?  Do most people use the same zones for running and cycling? If not what is the general rule for setting cycling zones based on the running zones if any?

  Gordo, when is the second edition of Going Long going to hit stores?  Is it significantly different from the 1^st ed?  I want to buy the book, but not sure its worth waiting for the 2^nd ed to come out….. 

Doug

first spin w HR data

58 MIN TOTAL

AVG HR 135

PEAK HR  172

START:  98

10 min:  124

20 mins:  143

30 mins:  124

40 mins:  147

50 mins:  120

58 mins:  116

i also did a 28 min swim....

mindful in my workouts today as i did in my run yesturday, the tendency to drive myself, working unnecessarily 'hard'. 

learning how to work steady, efficiently, wout 'taxing' myself unnecessarily. 

its a shift...the HR data is much more accurate in providing OBJECTIVE feedback for my level of effort/stress, than my subjective assessment (estimate of perceived exertion) ever was.

for me, i could easily convince myself that i could/should be working harder...

now consistent, steady effort is what matters most.

im starting to 'get it'

Hi Doug,

I find that it works best if you think about being "around" the point, rather than across a continuous zone.  So, based on your numbers...

Easy is under 125; Steady is 125-130; mod-hard is 143-147 // you will see that there are gaps // the gaps are your endurance grey zones.  For example, sitting at 138... harder that required for 'steady' adaptations, not hard enough for 'mod-hard' adaptations.

Try the same zones for the bike and see how they feel.  Some folks need to adjust downwards by up to 10bpm, mainly for flat cycling.  You'll find that your zones riding uphill are a lot closer to running, especially if you stand up.

 Spoke to my publisher this morning and she is anticipating 2nd edition books being ready early Feb.  We added quite a bit of new material -- so probably worth waiting a month.  In early Jan, my sig file will change with a link to my new site.  There will be a free library there -- that can provide reading material for January while we wait for the 2nd edition to be printed.

 g

That is great to read.  You are a fast learner!

 g