The "No Kids Club" (Page 11)

My point was nothing about the whole concept of we pay in now, and what we reap is what was paid in before type theory.

My only point was, (to the poster), one can't say "My value to this world is more because I produced life." First, the value we bring to the world, like I said, is our own. Until we DO something with ourselves, we are just a consumer of resources. 

That's exactly my point. It's what the child DOES that adds value to the world as a whole. 

I'm interested to know how many people (either with children or without) are either an "Acquieser" themselves, or have a partner who is?

Although many parents have with all sincerity told me that there is nothing like their love for their child and my parents feel very cheated for not being made grandparents, I am more and more frequently thankful that my husband of 11 years and I have not had children.

I view it as ultimately my decision since he has very little biological control of the situation, but I respect/love him too much to "force" him into fatherhood. "Accidental" pregnancies don't exist from my perspective with the availability of modern science.

At 30, time is perhaps slipping away, but I just can't commit to children knowing the emotional and financial strain they cause. Fear of lifetime commitment I guess. At 23, the idea was dreamy, but now I think I just know too much. Look at the number of single parents! I'd rather be happily married without children than a single parent.

Could be my profession too. I work with kids 11-14. I enjoy them for the most part, but many of their parents either don't want much to do with them or have a warped perspective of their children's complete and utter perfection.

Andrew, I don't take your shared perspective as an attack. It seemed that some people misconstrued "People who don't like kids" with something I didn't say and don't mean. Hence, my reiteration. I see this as simply conversation.

You ask if there are individuals I don't like. Of course! But that is SPECIFIC - an individual, I sized 'em up and I found them lacking so they are removed from my society. We make decisions like this all the time. "Children" is non-specific - it's an entire generation of people.  I don't see it as any different from making generalizations about ethnic groups, old people, races, sedentary folk, NASCAR fans, the Irish, or carnies.

I'm not asking you to defend your likes and dislikes - I hope you didn't take my post that way because I certainly didn't intend it that way.  I also don't take your comments or responses personally - they are about YOUR views and values. That's not hard to see.

I do disagree with your definition of a misanthrope. Most misanthropes wouldn't call themselves misanthropes. They think they have valid reasons for hating everyone. They don't look at themselves and say "I just hate people for no reason." They look for and find excuses to hate others. I knew a misanthrope; he is under the impression that he is a really nice guy.

I don't really follow your "I love humanity" thought process. Do you love humanity in the abstract? Or in a real, I am my brothers-keeper, hands-on way? Somewhere in between? That's a big question for anyone to answer, so I'll understand if you want to take a pass.

ETA: Removed repetitive quotes.

Good question mmrocker.  I truly believe the world is made a less perfect place when an adult reproduces as the result of an "acquiescense."  The very thought makes me sad.

No kids here, haven't been 'trying' but me and wife don't use anything and haven't for 8 years and nada.   We're okay with it though she wants kids. 

Kids love me because I tend to ignore them.  I'm paranoid of them because parents are overly protective.   When I was 8 a guy at a party hugged me.  I didn't think nothing of it but told my mom, she flipped out, called the police actually carted him off (I think for being drunk).  The story from some of his friends was that he had a son that died and hasn't been the same since (i.e. a drunk).  My sister in law has the same irrational behavior; nephew stays over, we don't give him dessert, she's screaming at my wife about us starving her son.

Anyway, that's all I had to add.  I'm not sure what debate is going on but it appears fairly uncivil for bt.

Well, I only use that term since it was in the article. But while I think in some cases, it ends up with an unhappy party--it can also end up with two happy parties. I know more than one person who said, "eh, I didn't plan to have kids, but I guess if you want them..." and end up very happy. And vice versa.

I'm just curious how many couples would say "yeah, I didn't want or not want. But he/she did...so we do/don't"

I can see why this might make you sad, but it doesn't make me sad.

My father kept having kids because he wanted a son and kept getting daughters (HAHA!). Some might say he had 5 children for the wrong reasons. But the fact is that my life with my father was made much more tolerable and HAPPY because of my sisters. So, I'm thankful that my father had children for the wrong reasons. It made life with him bearable.

We are brought into this world without our consent. We are raised in families that we don't get to choose. What we do with our lives is up to us. The love we create is up to us. It's only 18 years or so with our parents; the rest is all on us.

No!  You will receive far more than you paid in, more than is accounted for even by a reasonable interest rate, that is a fact.  Secondly why does no one connect the education they received with the taxes they now pay but they always seem to connect the taxes they now pay with the SS they will receive?

Really other than abstinance can tell me of a birth control method that is 100% effective??? The odds may be low but they still exist.

I hear ya Renee.  Nice post.  That said, our ability to create that love is based on (to a certain degree that is ultimately debatable) on our parent or parents.  Genes and environment.  nature-nurture.  Children that are abused and/or neglected (yes, extreme examples, but very prevalent) might argue the point that everything they do in their lives is "up to them."    

That said, I don't see your parents decision to have more kids as a situation involving "acquiescense."  In fact, from studies I've read recently, if your parents stayed together through having all those daughters, they weren't the norm! ...sounds like a lot of love.  The rate of divorce in families with only female offspring is higher around the globe...and increases with the addition of each little girl.  

Not to bring this thread down, but I came out of an abusive household and feel entitled to argue that point.

I clearly remember the purple bruises on my 3 year old bottom when my mother put me in an ice bath after my father whipped me with a leather belt. Earliest memory I have. It went on for years. I was 21 the last time my father struck me.

Everything I do in my life is up to me.

My childhood wasn't ideal, but it is over. It ended a long time ago. I am an adult and I get to decide who I am and what kind of person I will be. I am accountable for who I am; I won't shift blame to others or hold tightly to resentments. It only holds me back and makes me small. My father got to control me to an extent, but he lost ultimate control when I was 7 and developed critical thinking skills. It was then that I realized he was the problem and not me. From then on, I protected my mental well-being and prepared myself for the day I would leave my home and be free of his irrational raging. As an adult, I was more of a parent to him than he was to me when I was a child. That's the way I'm wired - I have strong parenting instincts. And I am loving to the point of what some might consider folly. That isn't wiring - that is choice. Deliberate, conscious, hard fought for choice. Love is a deliberate act, a choice.

But back to my point - no it wasn't acquiescence on my father's part. It was acquiescence on my mother's part. It was also the case of children brought into the world for what some might consider the wrong reasons (gender roulette). And despite my father's questionable motivation, I am grateful for my siblings. I love them dearly, just as I love their beautiful children.

You have kids, you roll the dice. You try to be the best parent you can. Some people's best is excruciatingly wanting. Some people are boundlessly loving and nurturing. Most are somewhere in between. In the end, the child gets to decide who they will be.

Have kids, don't have kids, I don't care. But to argue that kids are a problem or to suggest that kids brought into this world due to acquiescence is sad ... I am deaf to that kind of thinking. Life is beautiful and children are beautiful and adults are beautiful. We're all broken in some way; that's life. Let's get on with it.

Never responded to this thread, but I did read most of the posts and I have strong opionion on this subject.  What Yeats said is how I feel, too.  For some reason I just don't identify with them and I find myself naturally avoiding situations where kids would be a large part in them.  My brother is the same way so I don't have nieces/nephews to deal with.  But some people just get all angry when they hear me say that. 

My take is, this is how I choose to live my life, without children.  If you like kids and you are doing a good job as a parent, good for you, and thank you for raising your kids right.  But no one is going to tell me how I should live MY LIFE. 

I think that is what I said.

Well now you do.  I got pregnant using an IUD