Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 117)

Allison, I love the compassion for your dog.  Even though we have kids, I still consider our pup a key part of the family.  And yes, you are loaded with positives.  I remember so well the first time you set the baby down, and he doesn't stay in one place.  And then walking takes that to an entirely new level.  Then you blink, and they're off to high school.  Savor the everyday moments.

Jonathan - great to hear from you.  The day is fast approaching!  I know from meeting there is nothing which you could wear that I could fit into, but thanks for the offer.

Jeff, your weekly load is awesome, no wonder you hit top 20 in the COUNTRY!  Jeez.

I'm doing another relay Sunday, this one a sprint with my two oldest sons (15 and 14).  It looks like we're gonna get some rain and very high winds, so we'll see if the swim happens.  It's a short ocean swim, and my oldest is doing it.  He's a pretty strong swimmer but not an ocean swimmer.  The bay is usually fairly calm, but with 20 mph winds it might get choppy.  I'm actually already enjoying my post race season hiatus, so I 'm not expecting much on my bike leg.

To those racing this weekend, good luck and I'll try to follow you online as possible.  Keep it under control, until it's time not to keep it under control.

Jeff that is very solid week of training  especially considering that you are in fact racing this weekend. I agree with Warren it's no wonder why you're ranked so high.

Jonathan that is very cool of you to offer up some of your unused Tri gear and apparel. It is also appreciated that you would give the group the first shot at it. My problem is that I lost so much weight from all the training I have been doing to prepare to do Tri's that I am down to small and medium sizes. I've been just trying to maintain at this point so I don't have to buy new Tri apparel. However I do need to get a new wetsuit myself it's just too big on me now. My problem has always been gaining weight now I have trouble keeping it on lol.

Warren I think that is great that you are going to be doing a relay with your boys. I hope the weather holds out for you guys especially your son doing the swim. Good luck and have fun.

JoAnne good luck and have a safe trip to Madison. Make the most of this and enjoy every moment you can.

Thanks Jeff for your response on the thread.  Honestly, I was very worried.  After I noticed it I was riding in fear the whole time that my tire was going to explode or something.  With no triathlons left this year, I really was not counting on having to spend anything on the bike in the upcoming months since with winter coming I wouldn't be riding it at all.  And honestly I don't know if I'd want to as it would just be for 1-2 months, depending on how quickly the cold weather hits us.  Which means the alternative would have been no riding at all, which would frankly I think make me sad.

Have an awesome time out there.  We'll all be with you in spirit!  Stay in the box.

Good luck!  Don't forget to have fun.  We can't wait to hear all about your experience.

Jo I'll be stalking you all day on my computer. I'll give you my IM cheers from volunteering at IM LOU last summer:

DIG DEEP! NEVER GIVE UP! and of course a good old WHOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

MUCH cooler!!  The forecast for Sunday as of right now in Sandusky is  partly cloudy and 67 with Saturday's overnight low being 56.  The last race had temps approaching 90 and higher humidity levels with little wind and all sunshine.

I have also had the opportunity to review my nutrition a little more in depth and I think I could use a few more calories for the run.  I hope to catch a few more on the bike, as outlined above, and get a little bit more on the run early.  I figure it took me almost 2 years to get some solid race planning and efforts down for the short course racing and imagine it will be the same for the long course stuff too.

What are your thoughts on my plan?  To aggressive?

I'm interested.  What kind of price is he talking?  You can PM me if you like.

Best of luck to you!!! Wake up with a smile on race day and you'll do great!

Hey I'm glad you got the 14 miles in!  The way your story started off I thought you were going to say those stings turned into something catastrophic and forced you to stop after 3 miles.  Therefore, 14 miles- wow-  you exceeded my expectations! 

Don't worry about the slower than usual miles.  It's bound to happen when you're putting in a good amount a mileage- especially when you've got swimming and biking mixed in there.

Anyway sounds to me like you had fun  ....and uh yeah, I can't believe how early it gets dark now!!!  I remember the days not too long ago when there was still a little bit of light to be seen approaching 10pm...

Jeff, CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Also a good week training, way to be smart.  Looking forward to your answer of Matt's question too.

Tony, do you just feel lucky...stings... yea figure out where they are and go after them.

Well I went to the physical therapist for my IT band and he released me...yea but I did ask that he keep my file open until after my tri's coming up.  I did run 40 minutes today and have been running 25 - 35 every day, still taking it easy, but it is a little tender today.

Wife rode Bronco yesterday for the 1st time in about 3 weeks due to her having a horrible cold.  She rode 25 minutes on relatively flat ground and came in smiling and huffing, she didn't fall but her heart rate was up to 176 and she only went a few miles.  I think you just mention Bronco to her and her heart rate jumps to 130.

My son now in 9th grade used to be an excellent cross country runner.  In 6th grade he was running 2 miles cross country in 12 min 13 seconds.  Well he got burned out and quit after 7th grade.  Wife signed up for a 5k this weekend just as a charity thing and he asked if he could run it.  He has NOT trained at all.  We'll see, maybe he will get interested, I did get him to swim w/ me for the 1st time a few days ago.

The best for last....  Jo, good luck in your IM, Brenda and Dirk, good Luck in the Rev and Jeff, good luck in your tri and anyone else racing, GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff, your workout schedule wears me out just reading about it. I hope the heel pain clears up quickly. I know exactly what your talking about waking up with leg fatigue. That can really make the morning run feel terrible. Good luck with your race! What are you racing?

I had a run in the rain on Sunday and also enjoyed splashing in the puddles. My only problem was it was on a trail so I had to be a little careful not to wipe out! I know the people packing up their picnics were looking at me like  I was nuts . The best part was I did 2 laps of the trail, when I turned around on the second loop there was a rainbow stretching across the lake.

This brings me to a training issue. I've been working on the 5 days a week running. Last week I did 1@ 3.5 miles, 2@ 2 miles, [email protected] miles. All went well. My run on Sunday was my 5th day of running in a row which should have been fine but as I said I went to the trail for this run then did 2 laps which put me at 4.5 miles for that run. That ticked off my achilles again and I had an increase in other random aches and pains the following couple of days. Everything is working itself out as I've been diligent about staying off the trails the rest of this week, hitting the treadmill and careful with intensity. Now my question is which of the weekly runs can I add distance too? Or should I just add a little to a couple of different runs? I really don't want to add another day at this point. My brain needs the mental rest of not thinking about a run again if that makes sense.

Thanks in advance, I know that was kind of long!

Karl glad to hear that you are starting to turn the corner with those IT issues and it's good to hear that your wife is having a better time riding Bronco. Hopefully she can keep are HR down before she gets on the bike. Also good to see your son getting back into running.

Best of luck to all the Junkies racing this weekend. It looks like this is a big weekend. Brenda and Dirk at Rev3 Cedar Point, Jeff racing his sprint, Warren and his boys doing the relay and Allison and her husband running that 5 miler this weekend. Last but not least JoAnne doing IMWI. Go Junkies! Be safe, have fun and represent well for the Junkies this weekend! Hoping everyone else has a great weekend.

It sounds like quite an experience on that run.  My guess is the you may have been running over the top of a ground bee's nest and they weren't particularly appreciative.

It's great that you stuck in and were able to complete a solid 14 miles for the run.  There are a couple of things that you should keep in mind when it comes to your long runs.

1. Long runs should leave your legs feeling slightly fatigued from the distance and not the effort.  You should not feel overly tired from a cardio standpoint like you might from a tempo training session.  Your breathing should be in a sort of regular pattern without a lot of deeper breaths.  The key to long running is slow and easy as this helps develop endurance.
2. Ber careful you don't over do the long runs.  Make sure you have a good base for running.  You should have a slow build to your long runs which include a slow build of the shorter distance runs.  Both trainings need to be used in conjunction with one another, so one week you might add a mile to a shorter run then the next week one or two to the long run and so on.  Going longer than you have a base for can lead to injuries over the long haul; Things that will pop up seemingly out of no where.  Make sure you have 3 separate distances that you run each week.  You should have a short runs of 3-5 miles, moderate runs of 7-10 miles and then your long run. 

When adding miles to a full running plan (ie. not able to add more days), then I recommend adding mileage to the short runs first.  So that would mean increasing the 1.5 mile runs.  Be as gradual as you want, perhaps just up to 1.75 at first if you don't want to bring them right up to 2.0 miles.

Treat your achilles with respect.  As for the other general aches and pains, I recommend a good non-running warmup before your runs.  I happen to have at least 5 of my runs each week preceded by either swimming or cycling which helps a lot.  In your case, for instance, try a stationary bike before a treadmill run (if you are in a gym).  I would say that 10 minutes is good.  If at home, take the bicycle out for 10 minutes before running.

It is always true that what is gentlest on your body is to spread out your weekly mileage as thinly as possible (meaning evenly).  That's why adding mileage is best done by adding days, then by adding distance to the short runs.  And when I say it's best, I mean that it's best in terms of injury avoidance, not necessarily 'best' in preparing you for a particular race from a conditioning standpoint.

I would keep everything in check right now.  Make sure that nothing comes of the pain you're experiencing now at the current run lengths.  Do this for another week or two before picking up the mileage.  Once you have settled that you are not headed down the same road with injuries feel free to add miles but I would put them into the shorter runs in small increments, slowly to make sure nothing crops up.

Also, is there a reason you are wanting to ramp up the mileage?  You are currently in a pretty good place to maintain a solid fitness for Oly's next season and as the season approaches you can pick the mileage up then.  I would suggest that if you have no plans for a HM or other long distance event that you maintain your current level of running throughout the winter, leaving you with a rock solid base to begin next year's training season.

Do you have other goals that would suggest you increase your mileage?

No, the better weather will make an incredible difference!  But if your plan is to increase your perceived effort some % over what you did before (or heartrate) then you might not do well.  The cooler weather will make you faster at the same perceived effort, so if you just go out and 'feel' the same through the bike and early run then you will be much faster in theory.

So if the 'faster' or 'harder' plan is based on actual speed I think it's likely to work out well!

I was just reading some research on hydration in sport.  I found something interesting.  The amount of carbs in your fluid (they call it substrate) makes a difference in how effectively it rehydrates you.  There is a limit in the carb to liquid ratio that they call 'isotonic'.  Below that level and the intake of the carbs is slowed and the intake of the fluid is maximized.  Above that level and the intake of the carbs is maximized but the intake of fluid is minimized.

So it may be best to have 2 different nutrition plans, one for hot weather where hydration is the number 1 goal and another for cooler races where carbs can be the primary goal.

The recommendation was to have no more than 100 calories per 8 oz of fluid to remain below the isotonic level (maximize rehydration).  So that's what I would do for hot weather races.  For cool weather you can go higher.  And keep in mind that this needs to also include solid food and GUs taken in.  There should be 8 oz of water taken for every 100 calories taken if you are maximizing hydration.  Now that recommendation is good for your last race....for the one to come, more calories should be OK.

There's no performance hit to fluid losses up to 2.5% of your body weight.  More than that and performance begins to suffer.

They also said that there is no need to replenish electrolytes during exercise until you go over 3 hrs (in extreme heat) or 5 hrs (in cooler weather).  You just can't deplete your body's stores of electrolytes until then.  So for your HIM, you should seek some electrolytes, but won't need to come anywhere near close to trying to replenish everything you are sweating out.  That's good news.

And when supplementing them, of all the electrolytes only sodium and potassium need to be replenished during your effort.

Have fun!

I have to weigh in on the Achilles issue.  Listen to Jeff.  We all know that we can’t slow down or stop training at every niggle or we’d never train.  But one very important skill to learn is when it’s ok to carry on, and when it’s time to change things up or give the body part some rest.  It sounds like you may already be doing it, but be very careful with an Achilles.  Unlike many running pains, the Achilles will not tolerate “running through it”.

If whatever you are doing is exacerbating the Achilles, make adjustments.  It sounds like you have already started doing that, and I urge you to stay that course.  I’ll give my experience so hopefully you don’t have to learn first-hand.

When I had a minor Achilles tweak two springs ago getting ready for an HM, I largely ignored it and tried to finish the plan and it ended up costing me running most of the summer.  Jeff gave me some great advice about backing off (which I initially ignored at my own peril) and then some great advice on how to ease back into running.  Essentially he had me doing a lot of treadmill running, avoiding hills as much as possible when outside, backing the pace off substantially, and a slightly adjusted running style which doesn’t stress the calves/Achilles as much.  Here’s to a healthy fall running season.

mambos - 2012-09-06 9:31 PM I have a question about the 2 runs per day section, what benefit do you feel you gain from this? Additional milage? Teaching the legs to run when tired? Last year you challenged several of us to reach 50 miles/wk and the highest I could get was around 35-38. I am starting to go into another run focus and want to increase the run milage. I do not have the time available to have extremely long runs, but may be able to get 3 miles in the am and then 6 miles in the evening. Would this be beneficial? I plan on having at least 1 long run each week that starts at 10 miles and increases up to 14-15. On a run focus, how many days should or could be a "double-up" day? I would think no more than every other and that's probably quite a bit! My goal is to run my next HM under 1:45, little over 6 weeks from now! Oh, I have also targeted running a 5k in a time around 21:30 on October 14th, this would be almost a full minute off my PR that was set earlier this year. Not trying to put any pressure on myself, but you have to have goals right!

The benefit I gain from 2 run days is that I get to do a run with my daughter that evening and I get more miles.  So from the training side of things, it's just that I get more miles.  My morning workout is full with swim practice and 6 miles of run...can't go further because I have to get to work.

But it is gentlest on your body to spread out the stress evenly.  If you wanted to run a 50 mile week then the safest way to do it, without regard to other training, is to run 7 miles per day with one day being 8.  And the safest way to run 8 one day is to do 2 4-mile runs separated by 10 or more hours....

When you ask if it's too hard on the legs to do 2 runs every day, the answer is "NO!", but I'm assuming you are running the same amount and splitting each day in to 2 smaller runs....you were probably thinking about each additional run as increased mileage over your current....so absolutely it will be hard on the legs.

If you are going in to a run focus, then you need to start with your current weekly mileage, then organize it the way you want....so let's say you will continue with a longer run on the weekend with the other weekend day being off (from running at least).  That leaves you with 5 other days of running and that is how much?  In your recent training I see some weeks as high as 20ish miles.  So let's say you have a 5 mile run on the weekend (for now) and have 15 miles to run M-F. 

So start with the 3 miles every morning that you say you can find time for.  Your run focus begins with a 20 mile week.

You can increase your weekend run distance as your weekly total mileage increases.  But don't let it become more than 20% of your total for the week.  So if weekday runs get to 6 miles per day I wouldn't be going more than 10 miles on that weekend run...

Obviously once you are running those 3 miles each weekday that's all your time allows in the morning.  But I'd start with that discipline rather than adding in morning runs after you have topped out your evenings.  I suggest that just because I know it's what would work best for me.  The evening runs, when you start them feel like extra credit, like icing on the cake and it's much more motivating.

Start those evening runs with just 1 mile.  You probably won't need to do them every day.  In fact, your life schedule may not allow for an evening run every day.  But do what you can.  If you are eventually able to put in the 5x3 in the mornings M-F and up to a 10 on Saturday and then 5x4 in the evenings M-F you will have a 45 mile week! 

And there are many, many other decent ways to organize a training schedule, so there is no imperative to do it the way I just described.  It's just an idea.  But just know that the value in a training plan is almost entirely in the total weekly mileage and never in any 1 particular workout.  There is no need to have a plan that requires a super long run and rest days.  That's just one way of dealing with a crowded schedule, it doesn't magically make you a better endurance athlete because you depleted your body once per week.