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Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - CLOSED (Page 12)
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 2014-02-06 4:33 PM in reply to: JeffY |
Veteran  498   Redding, CA |  Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPENOriginally posted by JeffY ] Way to go Kung Fu master! That old-school conditioning stuff can be brutal. Plus most of that is a type of conditioning that triathletes don't have.  Well, I'm definetly no master yet, but the training is a lot of fun, and maybe after another 20 years or so... About the conditioning; I remember in my first week of Kung Fu I had just finished a sprint tri a week or two before and I was thinking I was in pretty good shape. I started taking Kung Fu as a way to cross train a bit. After my first couple of nights in class I was so sore that I was having serious second thoughts about continuing the training. It definetly uses completly different muscle groups that Tri training. |
| 2014-02-06 5:08 PM in reply to: DirkP |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP Originally posted by Jo63 Trainer road question..... My IM 30 week plan starts Monday. for the bike i start out at 2 hrs a week and gradually add to 5 hrs a week at week 10 and they are all easy rides After seeing my HR compared to the rest of yours I feel I am dong something wrong? So, I am looking at doing The Intermediate Base 1 plan. For those of you on TR if you get a chance could you look and see if that a good plan for me to use or would you recommend something else? On HR: Are you concerned that you aren't working hard enough based on what you see in mine and other's workouts? Each person has a very individualized HR so it's not something to compare to any one else. If you're worried about whether you're working hard enough then you have to gauge that a little on your own. Another way to see if you are doing some hard work is by checking the TSS (Training Stress Score) for the individual workouts you have done vs. others. When looking at the workouts you've completed this far, excluding the 20 minute test, you are in the moderate TSS range over all. But how did they feel? That's a bigger question. Intermediate Base 1: I think this plan would be a much better plan to work up to where you can begin to pick up hours later. I don't know what IM plan you're using but increasing the time on the bike now will support a better bike later, thereby giving you a stronger, more solid bike fitness overall for IM. Given that both the Intermediate plans are of similar time per week, you could give plan 2 a look to develop a stronger bike early. But it will be a little harder when looking only at the TSS. Don't be afraid to suffer. If you're going to suffer and develop a stronger cycling ability I suggest you make the worst of the suffering early as opposed to later in the training. So.....I guess I wasn't comparing my HR to you guys, it was just an observation that my HR is way high compared to my effort, not that iam not working hard .....where as you all are putting out way more effort with a pretty low HR. Everyone in my family has or had heart problems except for me so I worry more than I should when it's comes to my HR. Anyway, as far as the plan of not enough time, that was my concern with Ironfit, that's why I was thinking I should use TR on the scheduled bike days for the first 10 weeks to work harder and put in more time. and it would just be easier for me to pick a plan rather than trying to figure out which rides I should do. I will defefnitly look at plan 2 Thanks you guys for the input! |
| 2014-02-06 5:15 PM in reply to: Jo63 |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN |
| 2014-02-06 11:41 PM in reply to: Jo63 |
Extreme Veteran 872 Tx | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN ugh, still sick w/ this stomach bug... everything I eat feels like it stays in my chest and if I burp, I basically throw up in my mouth a little bit... TMI? lol. I have managed to suffer through a couple hours of WO;s this week, but missing most of my WO's is tearing me up... ugh! |
| 2014-02-07 4:41 AM in reply to: pistuo |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by pistuo ugh, still sick w/ this stomach bug... everything I eat feels like it stays in my chest and if I burp, I basically throw up in my mouth a little bit... TMI? lol. I have managed to suffer through a couple hours of WO;s this week, but missing most of my WO's is tearing me up... ugh! Will you will recover quicker if you rest and stop doing your WO's the flu is different than a cold......try some chicken soup and rest, rest, rest !!!! oh and yes TMI feel better soon! |
| 2014-02-07 5:26 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Sorry you're still not feeling well, WILL. At least the girls of your family are back feeling well and can give you tender loving care.. Quick question - my last swim had a buoy set and I was faster using the buoy then on the regular swim set. DINA saw in my log post that I'd wondered about it and thought it was because my legs sink and become a drag. That makes sense. Any other thoughts? And if that's the case, how do you correct leg drag? I already put my head down pretty far so I don't think it's head position.
Edited by bswcpa 2014-02-07 5:26 AM |
| 2014-02-07 5:38 AM in reply to: wbayek |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by wbayek Originally posted by Jo63 Trainer road question..... My IM 30 week plan starts Monday. for the bike i start out at 2 hrs a week and gradually add to 5 hrs a week at week 10 and they are all easy rides After seeing my HR compared to the rest of yours I feel I am dong something wrong? So, I am looking at doing The Intermediate Base 1 plan. For those of you on TR if you get a chance could you look and see if that a good plan for me to use or would you recommend something else? I'll add to Dirk's comments. I'm not sure what you're concerned about in regards to your HR. HR is extremely personal, and for a given individual it tends to lower as we age. So we "older" folks **** in general **** have lower HRs. But, Dirk is right that HR is just a measure of effort and it's always a good idea to use several methods, ie RPE (perceived effort), pace (for running and pool swimming), and power (for the bike, if available). Maybe if you describe your session from the plan's perspective, what you feel and what your HR is, what your threshold HR is, we can help out some more. As far as using TR with your plan. I would be cautious changing a plan you're on. It's easy enough to create your own TR workouts which would be the rides your plan is specifying. We can help with that. However, I'm with Tony and Dirk that 2-5 hours sounds pretty light for riding for IM training. Are those weekly totals or long ride durations. Warren, those are weekly totals for the first 10 weeks, so week 1 looks like this wed 30 min z2 thurs 30 min z1 and sat 1:30 z2. This is why I am looking at something more for the bike I just don't feel it is enough and this is the competitive program for Ironfit even the build phase starts at 5 hrs per week and goes to 7 and most of the riding in the build phase is z2 with a few minutes of z4 thrown in a couple times a week. During my current rides I feel like I am working hard but, even last night I know could have worked a little harder, so I will retest again next week. Thresold is 168, last nights highest went to 165 but.....I seldom feel out of breath. Hope this all makes sense Iam trying to get it written quick before I have to get ready for work So with all that said I am thinking I will do the intermediate 2 and add a long ride on Sunday. My work schedule is busy, so I need a definite plan to follow cuz trying to figure out which ride to do will make me crazy I am also thinking to then add the build phase 2 for weeks 11-20 with the long rides outside if it is warm by then |
| 2014-02-07 5:54 AM in reply to: bswcpa |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by bswcpa Sorry you're still not feeling well, WILL. At least the girls of your family are back feeling well and can give you tender loving care.. Quick question - my last swim had a buoy set and I was faster using the buoy then on the regular swim set. DINA saw in my log post that I'd wondered about it and thought it was because my legs sink and become a drag. That makes sense. Any other thoughts? And if that's the case, how do you correct leg drag? I already put my head down pretty far so I don't think it's head position.
That makes sense to me....I am no expert but one of the things I miss understood was in order to save your legs you don't want to hardly kick.....wrong one of the interesting things in the book swim speed secrets is the leg positioning on the kick and ankle flexibility pg150 |
| 2014-02-07 6:14 AM in reply to: Jo63 |
| Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Thanks, JOANNE - heading to page 150 now.... |
| 2014-02-07 8:20 AM in reply to: bswcpa |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Will I hope you are feeling better soon. I agree with JoAnne maybe it's better to just get some rest and get healthly instead of suffering through the few workouts you've been trying to get in. Brenda I'm not going to be any help with the swim. I have the same issues plus my kick is very poor to non existent. I think the problem you describe sounds like balance and body position in the water but I defer to folks here who know how to swim  JoAnne you are probably better off using the TR plan for the bike for the first 10 weeks instead of the build phase of the IronFit plan for the bike. If you are already doing as many hours or more then the plan calls for you will be good to go when you start the base phase. I think they assume that you don't have much of a base. I know I was doing more training then what the plans base phase called for when I used the plan last year. I got my first indoor flat last night. I was getting ready to knock out my hour of VO2 intervals and go to pump up the tire and I hear a big whooshing noise. Air is coming out of the tire faster than I can pump it in lol. The valve broke so I had to change the tube which was a huge pain in the butt. It set me back about 30 minutes becuase I had to set everything back up again. Needless to say I was not very happy but I channeled my fustration into my workout and I had a really good workout. So it didn't start very well but it did end well. |
| 2014-02-07 10:16 AM in reply to: Jo63 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by Jo63 During my current rides I feel like I am working hard but, even last night I know could have worked a little harder, so I will retest again next week. Thresold is 168, last nights highest went to 165 but.....I seldom feel out of breath. Hope this all makes sense Iam trying to get it written quick before I have to get ready for work So with all that said I am thinking I will do the intermediate 2 and add a long ride on Sunday. My work schedule is busy, so I need a definite plan to follow cuz trying to figure out which ride to do will make me crazy I am also thinking to then add the build phase 2 for weeks 11-20 with the long rides outside if it is warm by then If your threshold is 168, then easy rides should be significantly lower than 165. Aerobic base building should be more in the zone 2 to lower zone 3 range, so maybe 140-155. And yes, this riding should feel rather easy. It's a hard, hard, thing for type As like us to accept that you don't have to feel trashed every day to actually be benefiting from training. The adaptations which are happening from the zone 2 work are not enhanced by going faster (unless you go really hard). But there is a pile of evidence that increasing effort from the "relatively easy" level to anything much below threshold really doesn't do a lot more than make you more tired. In order to get great benefits from harder riding, you really have to get very close to threshold and above. Threshold riding can be a very effective way to increase your threshold power, which is a key indicator of riding speed at all distances. That's sort of the EN approach Tony is embracing, though even they back down to mostly zone 2 work as the race date approaches. The advantage is that you can train "shorter", but if you've ever done their workouts they are a bear! FWIW, I tend to do these types of workouts, for instance even adding in 2x15-20 minute threshold intervals even on a 3 hour long ride. I know I bounced around bit, but hopefully this helps. In general, remember the true saying. Most of us go too hard on easy days and too easy on hard days. |
| 2014-02-08 7:12 AM in reply to: wbayek |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Just a little selfish proclamation coming.....Or maybe some selfish justification. You all can decide.... I skipped a workout opportunity this week on Wednesday, which many of you know almost never happens (unless a funnel cloud has been sighted directly over my house). I chose to skip the workout because I was tired and my back has been sore recently. I can't imagine why my back has been sore either. With record January (29.9 inches) snowfalls and having only a snow shovel to clear my driveway and sidewalks, I am in complete bewilderment. (I have also helped the elderly lady across the street a few times and shoveled the community mailbox to make sure we get our mail.) The soreness has been muscular and has likely been compounded by all of the riding in aero for the past 6 weeks. My weekly average riding right now is 7.02 hours but that's being dragged down slightly because I haven't figured in todays 2 hour ride. Toss in today's upcoming ride and I'm at 7.4 for my weekly saddle time. Anyway, I decided I could handle the day off and get back on track Thursday and ride another ride yesterday and still get 7.5 hours in the saddle this week........And then!! A call came in yesterday morning at 6:45 that nearly an entire county was out of power and it was time to go to work. There had been no real weather issues move through other than bitter cold (-12 and -30 wind chills). The winds had been relatively calm to normal 10 MPH. Without going into gross detail about how everything played out, what I thought might have been a couple of hour job turned into nearly 12 hours for me, on a normally scheduled off day. Nad no workouts again yesterday. I also had a swim scheduled for yesterday morning that was missed. I cannot make up the swim today because the pool is closed for a swim sectionals meet all day today. So, is anyone shedding a tear with me this morning? |
| 2014-02-08 9:06 AM in reply to: bswcpa |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by bswcpa Sorry you're still not feeling well, WILL. At least the girls of your family are back feeling well and can give you tender loving care.. Quick question - my last swim had a buoy set and I was faster using the buoy then on the regular swim set. DINA saw in my log post that I'd wondered about it and thought it was because my legs sink and become a drag. That makes sense. Any other thoughts? And if that's the case, how do you correct leg drag? I already put my head down pretty far so I don't think it's head position. It is likely Dina is correct. Part of the principle behind using the pull buoy is to help develop a feel for the water while using it. It places your hips where they are supposed to be, near the water's surface. With your hips nearest the surface your body creates less drag because your body is horizontal in the water rather than having a downward angle. Think of it like riding your bike in the aero position. When you are upright you are creating more drag because of the frontal exposure the wind. When you get into the aero position you have the ability to go as fast with less power output. It's the same principle in water. Another thing a pull buoy can develop (or help develop) is a better stroke. When you use the buoy you can mentally focus on your stroke itself rather than trying to put all of it together. This is one of the reason I sue the pull buoy a lot. Some swim coaches and instructors don't like the pull buoy because they know the mental benefits of using it. People feel faster with a buoy and want to use it all of the time and this is the wrong approach. I would say that the buoy is not a crutch for me as others (not in our group) may sometimes argue. (My swimming, without the buoy, seems to hold that point up well.) There are a couple of things you can do to develop a better position in the water. Drills are going to be the best way to learn to keep your hips high.
Here is a longer video that helps put it all together. Learn to develop these high hips and you should begin to see some immediate results in how much more quickly you can move through the water. Remember repetition will put this into muscle memory and make it a response rather than an uncommon occurrence. Practice, practice, practice. |
| 2014-02-08 9:23 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Dirk I do sympathize with you especially on the weather and the work situation. I too have had enough of snow shoveling for the next 5 years. It sounds like you ran into a life happens week this week. I know how much it pains you to miss a few workouts but seriously don't get stressed over that. You have been putting in alot of hours already so it won't affect your fitness as you already know and in the long run the off days will probably help you. I know you already know this and I'm same way when it comes to missing workouts but I've gotten a little better at accepting the missed workouts and getting back on track for the next workout. Hope you have a better weekend. I've got a 2 hour workout planned for this morning, 90 minutes of bike threshold intervals follwed by a 30 minute run. I've also got an outdoor run planned for tomorrow. I'm hoping for about 90 minutes as I'll be running with some friends. I missed last weekend's group run due to work so I'm looking forward to running outdoors for a change. There is snow in the forecast though I think for Sunday we could get a couple more inches. Man I can't take this weather anymore! The other thing that is killing me is the pool schedule. They closed this past Monday due to weather, they are closed this Monday for maintenance and the following Monday they are closed for the holiday. Monday is the best day to swim as there are no classes all day so morning or evenings are great, no big crowds. I swim every Monday evening I consider that my priority swim day. What really sucks for me is I really can't find another good time to go in my schedule so I'll probably be swimming just on Friday's for the next 3 weeks. I'm not happy about that but there is not much I can do about it, bummer. |
| 2014-02-08 10:32 AM in reply to: DirkP |
| Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Thanks for the video links, DIRK. I just got back from the pool so I'll look forward to implementing them on Tuesday when I go again. I'd never heard of the pencil drill and think that one will be good to help me figure out the best body position. I forgot that Friday was your day off so I didn't shed a tear but I did pray for you when I saw the posts on Facebook from my Columbia City friends saying they had no power. And you're still getting in over 7 hours on the trainer? Geez O Peez! Hope your brick workout this morn goes well, TONY. Sorry about your frustration over the pool. You'll just have to make the most of the time you get there on Fridays. JOANNE - I need a massage after shoveling too much snow this week like Dirk. Although the drive would be too long to your salon I wondered if you found someone? Have a great weekend everyone!
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| 2014-02-08 2:52 PM in reply to: bswcpa |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Thanks Brenda, you're right not much I can do about the pool situation other than make the most of the days I can get there. I hope those drills help you with your swimming. I really need to be doing the same. I think my biggest problem is my balance and until I can correct that I probably won't be making any gains in my swimming. I hope that you see some good results with all the work you're putting into your swimming. Brick workout completed! It was a good one now I'm hoping I get a good run in outdoors tomorrow. |
| 2014-02-08 6:10 PM in reply to: strikyr |
Extreme Veteran 1123 Sidney, Ohio | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN So it has taken a bit, but I was finally able to record my bike set-up and post it online. If you recall my original problem was sliding forward in my seat. I took a look at my post and was able to move my seat forward a little bit more and do not feel as if I am falling forward..as much. Since I have changed so much this winter with the new shoes/pedals and new seat I was hoping the bike gurus could take a look and let me know what you think. Top keep from having to watch the entire 3 1/2 minutes the camera position changes around the 2 minute mark. |
| 2014-02-09 7:29 AM in reply to: mambos |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Jeff is certainly the best one to comment to your overall bike fit questions but I might be able to give some ideas
I suggest letting Jeff take a look and make his recommendations before doing much of anything. If you decide to make some adjustments, mark everything well so you can put it back if needed. |
| 2014-02-10 7:06 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Looks like a quite weekend with the Junkies! So today begins my 10 week base. I have been so ready to get to the program, these past couple weeks I have been working hard on the bike i got a pretty good ride in yesterday on TR called Madison that i thought was appropriate and am looking forward to finally see big improvements when Iam able to get outside, thanks everyone for all your help with this! I need some prayers.....my sister who i am closet with of all my siblings called over the weekend, as I had mentioned earlier everyone in the family has heart issues, anyway she is only 60 and has congestive heart failure, well she started filling up with fluids again, so was admitted to the hospital, only to discover her kidneys are not good she's down to 10% function and will have to do dialysis 3 x a week. With all of this though I have another sister who has been a mess since my mom died and she finally reached out to me to help her so I think I have talked her into signing up for IronGirl its in August and i told her i would do it with her, she has gained a lot of weight and also has heart stuff and literally lays on the couch in all her off time, we will start with some walking, her 12 week training will start May 18th so I think this is doable!! Have a great Monday!!!! |
| 2014-02-10 7:30 AM in reply to: Jo63 |
Veteran 271 Ft. Lauderdale | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Fresh back from Ragnar Miami-Key West.. The last post I read was Dirk going out in sub arctic temperatures to save the town..... and for several moments i was envious and could have used the cold. the heat index was in the mid 90s for us. they had to keep putting out water stations along each of the legs. there was no relief form the sun and only a slight breeze. however, the scenery and the company was magnificent. I've been to the keys many times, but never this close up for such a long distance. it's a pretty incredible location. The Ragnar experience is incomparable to anything I've done before. I was more exhausted that during long triathlons..... it is definitely an experience I'd like to do again. The comaraderie and teamwork creates a truly amazing experience. attached is a photo taken just before the 7 mile bridge. (next up... Ironhorse 50 mile run on 2/15) (20140208_112531_resized.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 20140208_112531_resized.jpg (723KB - 4 downloads) |
| 2014-02-10 8:38 AM in reply to: tmoons |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN JoAnne sounds like you're making good progress with your biking and glad to hear you are getting ready to kick off your training for IMWI. I'm sorry to hear about your sister and will certainly keep her in my thoughts and prayers. I think it's great that you are going to do the Iron girl tri with your other sister and that you're going to help her in getting ready for that. Terry sounds like you had great time at Ragnar. I can understand from the picture why you enjoyed being there, it looks great. I'm sure I'm not the only one who envies you. The way you feel about the heat is exactly how I'm feeling about the cold these days. I wish we we had a little warmer weather and we could get rid of this snow. We had a few more inches of snow last night. It's really getting quite old now. I did get outdoors for a run yesterday morning and while it was chilly and a little windy it really was a beautiful day with the sun out. I almost forgot what it was like to run outdoors so it was nice to get out there and get 8 miles in with a small group of friends. Rest day today, the pool is supposed to be closed as there were signs posted there when I went Friday but I've seen no updates on their website. I'll talk their word for it I'm really tired anyway and could use a day off. |
| 2014-02-10 1:26 PM in reply to: Jo63 |
Veteran 498 Redding, CA | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN JoAnne, My prayers are going out for you and both your sisters. Will, I hope you were able to get healthy again over the weekend. Terry, Ragnar sounds like it was awesome. Tony, Hopefully the weather/maintenance etc. cooperates with your swim schedule to get you back in the water soon. Enjoy the day off today.
I'll be getting back over to the YMCA either late this month or early next to start my swim training again. I'm hoping to get my swims in early mornings if I can work out the schedule with the office here. |
| 2014-02-10 8:51 PM in reply to: DirkP |
| 21 | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - CLOSED I am reading, just not posting much. I am swimming way too much, still trying improve my stroke, so I am swimming lots of drills and really concentrating on form, it feels unnatural, but I think it is getting better. Last week: 4 runs for 22.01 miles 2 spinning sessions 5 swimming sessions Olympic note... How about that downhill slope! |
| 2014-02-10 9:18 PM in reply to: Captain_Chris |
 Bronze member | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - CLOSED Hello to all the new faces (to me) in the group. I've been around with the Junkies a while but personal stuff currently has me side lined. Just wanted to let you all know I'm still here and gaining a little momentum. Today was the first day in weeks that I have not had a headache, stomach ache, felt achy all over or needed a nap. I think the fog might be lifting a little. Thanks to everyone who was praying or thinking of me and my family. I've remained active through all of this but workouts were an emotional outlet more than anything else. Today I actually strapped on my HR monitor, turned on my Garmin and a Sufferfest download (HHNF) and caused myself some serious discomfort |
| 2014-02-11 4:46 AM in reply to: trigal38 |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - CLOSED Dina, I'm so glad to see you posting. I've been wondering how things have been going for you. I've almost sent you a FB message a couple of times but I thought it might be better to allow you to make it back to the Junkies without the pressure of someone hounding you. Still, you and your family have been thought and prayed for over these couple of weeks. I'm equally as happy to see that you have been able to channel your stress into some workouts. Terry, Ragnar sounds like it was a good race for you although the heat would have been more brutal to us northerners, especially right now. With the severely cold temps up here over this winter coming to Florida and racing in that kind of heat would have had many of us suffering from heat related stress. I admire your dedication to your sports too. You seem to have allowed a competitive edge to motivate you to work long and hard hours toward some extreme races over a short period of time. Congrats! Tony, You mention running on snow covered trails or roads. I am not sure the last time I have even seen asphalt to run on here. I have been running on ice or packed snow for weeks and weeks it seems. I have also been running outside for all of my run as well. The temps have been what's been brutal for me when running, not the snow. I have yet to run on a treadmill this winter but all of my runs have been short by comparison too. If I were running longer stuff, 5-6 miles I would have to wear more clothes and thicker socks. The ventilation in running shoes normally has been okay through winter running but NOT this year. My toes have been really cold to hurting badly from being cold much of this winter................I sold my treadmill last summer. Maybe not such good timing? Chris, Stay with the swimming! Over time it will be what makes the biggest difference in where you want to go. I'll also applaud you for sticking to swimming that frequently and using so many drills. Many of us, especially me, aren't mentally capable of drilling that much and that's bad for us. |
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