Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL (Page 13)

Thanks G,

Tomorrow the plan calls for a 20min run and no walk.  So I'll do my warm up then run 20min keeping my HR under 150, no matter the speed correct?  Also since I'm doing this on the TM should I set any kind of incline or just keep it flat?

Happy New Year's everyone!!! Did a 50 min treadmill walk as follows:

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w/u 10 min @ 2, 2.5, 3.0 mph, 0% incline – avg hr 83, max 91

5 min @3.8 mph, 1 % incline – avg hr 111, max 115

30 min @ 4.0 mph, 1 % incline – avg hr 129, max 135

c/d 5 min @ 3.0, 2.5, 2.0 mph, 0% incline

It took a while for my HR to get up to where it should be.  How come my HR while running at 4.0 mph is significantly higher than my HR while walking at the same speed? 

Happy New Year's!  Congrats on all the good workouts yesterday.  You were all much more disciplined than me.  I sat in the cold at the Winter Classic, drank too much beer, and watched my Blackhawks lose.  I will get my 2009 back on track this weekend.

BB

 Don't worry about the speed, warm-up gradually, build the speed gradually.  That should help.

 With the grade, 1% grade is equivalent to flat running outside.

 g

 Remember, your heart doesn't know your running, biking, swimming or walking.  So first thing to remember is that your mode of transport doesn't make a difference in terms of health.

 What I think we are seeing is that you are more relaxed, and efficient, walking than running.  That's normal and let's build your fitness through walking (first) and running (later).

 Things to remember when running -- relaxed full breath, short steps, smooth (don't bounce).

 You are doing well -- this is a good aerobic workout that you did.

 g

Got up at 415 am to get a trainer ride in before work.  As I sit here now, it feels great knowing that it's done for the day and I don't have to worry about it when I get home.  I did 30 min averaging 72 - 79 rpm.  Between minutes 10-20 I did 5 x 30 sec intervals at 90-95 rpm.  Average HR for whole ride was 133 with my max at 150 during my last interval.  Anything I should be doing differently here Gordo?

Decided to increase the distance on my routine run.  Went from 2 miles to 3 miles.  It felt really good and I don't feel like I increased the distance too much.  Used the 8 minute run followed by the 30 second walk routine.  The HR figures were:

@8 run 140  walk 120
@16 run 144  walk 132
@24 run 142  walk 120
@29 run 140

Very pleased with the following 2 items:

1) My endurance has increased a great deal since I started training. 

2)  Even with the walking my pace has increased.  I did this run workout at sub 10 min. pace which is really good for me.

Given my competitive nature the temptation is to increase the distance or pace on the run.  I have to keep reminding myself I'm in this for the long haul not just my 1st TRI in Feb. If I just stick to the plan it will all (longer distances, faster pace, weight loss) happen naturally.

Orange Bowl Update:  Va. Tech HOKIES 20 Cin. 7

YEAH!!!!

 That is a great session.  Good use of the higher cadence work.

 g

 Thanks for sharing your experience.  #2 is common.  For readers that are training for long events (half marathon, marathon, Oly distance tri)... the fact that walking increases average pace will become even more apparent.  

On really long runs (2 hrs +), most my athletes find their average speed higher with walking, even when the initial 10 minutes of walking is included.  As well, the average HR for the (faster) workout is lower.

g

Trip to Chicago.  Wore workout gear on the train and ran on Lake Shore Dr. with the wife while we waited for hotel room set-up.

      -4.36 miles with a few walk breaks (ice).  You got me focused and motivated G-man! 

Did a 21 min swim, a 17 min run and 30 mins of ST....not a typical day for me.  when im following the training plan 'as is' cycling and swimming are paired on the same days, and running is stand alone on the opposing days, and i couple my runs with strength trng.

before i give my HR data, GORDO I HAVE A QUESTION.  im fitting in two classes into my training schedule and in order to do that, i needed to shuffle some things around, nothing dramatic, but....my question is this:

is there an advantage to pairing 2 of the 3 disciplines on the same day?  is there any disadvantage to any pairs?

AND A SECOND QUESTION: 

on the trng schedules here on the site (which im using) theres an increase of time for each of the workouts over the course of the week, starting w the shortest times at the beginning of the week, and ending w the longest amt of time at the end of the week....

is there an advantage in maintaining this progression SHORT TO LONG, or is it OK to switch the workouts around a bit if/when necessary?   [i DO try and keep a short workout w a short workout, a long workout w a long workout, and a rest day placed near a long workout]

for example this my workout for next week:

runs are 17, 23 and 29 mins respectively

swims, 21, 28, 35 mins

bike, 42, 56, and 70 mins

mon - 17 min run and ST

tues - 21 min swim

wed - 23 min run and ST

thurs - 56 min bike (in am) and 28 min + 35 min swim COMBINED (1 hr class - in pm)

fri - 29 min run and ST*

sat - 70 min + 42 min bike COMBINED (2 hr endurance spin class - in am)

sun - OFF*

* i have the option of switching FRI and SUN if/when necessary....

the times will change as the weeks progress, but this will be my schedule, from now until at least the beginning of March.

any suggestions/advice/feedback you'd like to offer?  im all ears.

17 min run HR data

start:  88 pace 3.8

10 min @ 3.8:  115 increased pace to 4.0

4 min:  129 decreased pace to 3.8

5 min:  118 increased pace to 4.3

9 min:  132 decreased pace to 3.8

10 min:  120  increased pace to 4.5

14 min:  137  decreased pace to 3.8

15 min:  125 increased pace to 4.5

17 min:  137  decreased pace to 3.8

18 min:  120 continued pace at 3.8

4 min:  102

STILL, STEADY AS SHE GOES.

Hey all,

Ok didn't get carried away on the tm today singing and all.   First straight run for me today, 20min total.  Longest I have ever been able to go without walking, and keeping my HR where it should be it felt GREAT!!!  I really felt good and like I could have gone longer (but I didn't).  Here are my #'s:

Starting HR (63)  WA .5mi @ 3.5 (102)

5min @ 5.0 (144)

10min @ 5.0 (150)

15min @ 4.8 (148)

20min @ 4.8 (149)

WD .5mi @ 3.5 (119) then .25mi @3.0 (114)

Couple questions,  I think I remember you asking us to copy our previous numbers to top of next post so you can compare, am I right or am I just making this up?  Would it be helpful for you?  When is it good to be adding in the walk breaks? 

Thanks for the help,

Mel

45 min treadmill walk before work:

w/u 10 min @ 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5 mph, 0 % incline - avg hr 84, max 102

15 min @ 4 mph, 1 % incline - avg hr 122, max 129

15 min @ 4 mph, 1.5 % incline - avg hr 132, max 139

c/d 5 min @ 3, 2.5 2 mph

HR data for 2 hr spin class 1/3

START:  88

10 min:  119

20 min:  130

30 min:  138

40 min:  132

50 min:  138

60 min:  133

70 min:  135

80 min:  128

90 min:  143

1 hr 40 min:  127

1 hr 50 min:  141

2 hr:  136

END:  106

i was very mindful (again) in this workout of my tendency to push and work too hard, unnecessarily.

steady, consistent effort. 

i think the 'proof' is in the numbers.

still steady as she goes.

 Jeff,

 No need to apologise for the questions... I'm really enjoying our group.

 The run:walk was taught to me by Bobby McGee (www.BobbyMcGee.com) a running coach that has helped me with my running when really broke through and started running my fastest splits.  Like a lot of things in triathlon... I didn't believe him at first and it took me a couple of years until I actually applied his advice.

 One of the nice things about a sprint tri, or Olympic distance, is that you can keep you week very similar.  If you are following a plan that has been built with your race in mind then follow the plan -- sounds simple but we are all tempted to do something silly in the last couple days.  Must be nerves.

 If you don't have a specific plan to follow then here is a good way to play it.

Keep your normal schedule right up to race day.

Starting weekend before, cut your bike and run workouts durations in half.  Make sure that you include some race intensity work at least every 3rd day.  Important to be honest about your likely race intensity - my first sprint tri took me about 90 minutes.  So my race intensity work would be under Functional Threshold.  It's tempting to want to do a lot of VO2max training -- that will just make you tired.  

I also like to include some alactic speed skills each day during race week -- strides (run), spin-ups (bike) and short sprints (swim).  Just a little bit to keep everything firing quickly.

You can swim "normally" right up to race day - if swimming really tires you out (and that is normal if it does) then cut your swim workout duration in half starting three days out.  However, this isn't necessary for experienced swimmers.  As an aside, I have always had my best short course swims when I have kept the swim going run up until the day before.  All my swim PBs have been set at the end of big swimming blocks, with minimal rest.  My best 400 yard time was set in the final workout of a swim week that was over 75,000 yards.

 ++

 Training durations and long day structure - great question.

 Training duration -- two things to shoot for here...

 A - swim/bike/run - SBR for TIME the components of your race in a week, then a long weekend, then a weekend, then a day.  This works up to Half IM distance.  So you get your body used to swim, then bike, then run.  You don't need to go fast, or rush transitions.  First, you get yourself used to simply going the distances.

 B - The Bike for Duration Training - To give your mind, and body, an idea what it will be like to race for the duration of your triathlon, build your long ride (as continuous as possible) up to the total expected race duration.  This is the safest place to build the endurance/stamina for your event.  This is why, my view, a short course athlete can really benefit from a ride duration that is much longer than their event.  For example, if you are training for a race that will likely take you three hours to complete, then building up to a three-hour long ride offers a safe (and effective) way to train for the duration of your event.

 The methods above are also how I use multisport to safely train runners for marathons.  It greatly reduces the risk of injury.  For example, for someone that really wants to "run" three hours (I don't advise this); you can go 90/90 (bike/run) and get a much higher quality run workout.

 In terms of over distance, the answer is VERY dependent on your personal history.  Guys like Phelps are training up to 100K per week for 2-4 minute events -- extreme over-distance.  So one needs to consider your background.

Everyone on this thread is limited much more by the realities of our lives, than optimal rules of thumb.  So best to determine, what level of training suits your life.  That is what you've got to work with.  Then focus on hitting that training daily and eating right.  When I look at the best working athletes... that is how they do it.  They don't worry about what might be... they simple focus on getting the best out of what is possible.

g

 Multiple sports on the same day -- yes very beneficial if convenient.  You will find that biking after swimming, and running after biking... are different than doing when fresh.  A lot of "strange" data from race day is actually a normal response to swim-bike-run.

 See my reply one above this one, for some specific tips/thoughts.  The main disadvantage is that you can overload yourself -- remember my advice to never compromise tomorrow's training.  When you extend your endurance, you need to be very careful with intensity.

 Absolutely OK to shift the workouts around with your schedule, and for mental variety.

g

Morning everyone!

My resting heart rate was back to normal (47) when I woke up so I appear to be recovered. I never would have guessed that 5 mile run would take 2 days to recover.

Got registered for my first 2 tris! Can't wait. Valdese NC, April 4 will be my first! I'm starting the 12 week beginner sprint program on the 12th. Second one registered for is the Lake Logan oly in August. After Valdese I'll start on the sprint to oly bridge program. I'm going to add a couple more sprint in there as well.

Today: 2.37miles 29:20. Felt easy. Same route as Tuesday but did it 11 seconds faster at 4bpm less average heart rate. 

 Mel,  

First up - congrats on building your aerobic capacity and learning "gears".  This is a big step.

With tracking the data and your progression -- I would like everyone to be aware of their logs/history.  The reason is that if you apply my tips consistently then they are going to work.  When you can see that your program is working, your belief in your plan increases... all very good things for motivating us to keep on trucking...

 Two things with the walking... #1 The walking is good for any session over 30 minutes - you'll probably find that you use for everything once you build the habit. #2 You need to train your walking.  With practice, you will find that you can "walk" at the same pace that a lot of people are running - this is absolutely true uphill.  So... you want to build your skills as a walker.  I can make my running partners break stride during our walking "breaks" and, my run coach is even faster than me.

g

 That is one tough endurance session!

Lake Shore Drive - run #2 - around Navy Pier. 

3.2 miles of pure wind and cold.     Ready from some pool time G-man! 

Question:   Outline an ideal taper prior to a race.  You are big on training thru (before and after a race) but we should take it down a notch or two as a taper, right?

 Have a read through my thoughts above and let me know if you have specific follow-ups.  In general, while normal, we place too much emphasis on the taper.  If you've done the work then the main thing is to turn up and "push play".  Do what you've practiced in training.

 If your preparations have not been ideal, or if you are new to the distance, then give yourself ample room to speed up in the second half of the race, as well as, each leg.

 Watching the snow fall in Boulder...

 Looks like I'm off to the pool for an indoor day...

g

G-thanks so much for your response (and the response to the above post, i garnered a lot of really good tips from there as well)

the info is certainly helpful as i move forward into the new year of trng.  im super excited launching into 2009.

as for the spin class.  a tough endurance session.  yep-a-roo. 

its a goodie - i look forward to that class all week - not only is it a great workout, but there is a regular group of people who take the class, and they are really fun to workout with.  my own version of a cycling club, albeit indoors.  [many of the participants train/ride together for the MS150 so theres a 'method to my madness']

and that particular class is SO different than the other classes offerred at the Y i think in large part due to the fact that the instructor is herself a multisport endurance athlete.  its obvious, she brings that experience to 'the table' as opposed to the other spin classes offerred during the week that have more of a fitness focus.

not that theres anything wrong w that, but i definately feel that i get a workout that is more 'supportive' of my goals (tris and the MS150) taking that particular class [though now that i changed up my schedule, i did find an comparable instructor on tues and thurs]

im so fortunate to have such a stellar facility in such close proximity to my home, and that they have some really top-notch instructors....

ttow!

 Have a read through my thoughts above and let me know if you have specific follow-ups.  In general, while normal, we place too much emphasis on the taper.  If you've done the work then the main thing is to turn up and "push play".  Do what you've practiced in training.

 If your preparations have not been ideal, or if you are new to the distance, then give yourself ample room to speed up in the second half of the race, as well as, each leg.

Okay!  I'm putting things together.  Cutting the bike and run duration but not the swim makes perfect sense to me.  That's the answer I needed.  No problem training thru...just wasn't sure about the training load (number of minutes) staying the same throughout.  I have raced for several years and, upon reflection, have had my best efforts when the training was consistent.  I think the "train smart - train less" thing (quality over quantity) seen on the cover of many publications/articles has created some confusion on my part.  

I am in process of slaughtering some long held tri-training myths, I guess.