GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring (Page 13)

2009-05-20 9:46 AM

in reply to: #2072085

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Feeling a bit frustrated with my HR when running. I feel like I want to run, do the 5:1 at least but my HR will shoot up sometimes to 155 after like a minute of running. I am trying to be patient with it.

In addition to the HRM on my Garmin I am finding it motivating in a way that I had not anticipated. I like downloading the workout afterwards and seeing the route on the map that I took. When I used to bike/run I would do the same routes EVERY time and I was getting bored. Now that I can see my trip on the map I want to see different routes, so I end up going different places that I have been before. This has made my bike/run much more enjoyable. So, you should all go get a Garmin.

Suzy- what is the temp in the lake you are in? You in a wetsuit?

mtntord

2009-05-20 11:19 AM

in reply to: #2162944

Veteran

187

Northern Virginia

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

SSMinnow - 2009-05-18 8:06 PM

Tonight was the first time I had to swim with 25mph winds and white caps.

I am pretty envious of your access to open water. Sounds like you are really nailing it though, I tried some 55 or so degree water and my face just got really cold and I got tired very very fast. Not sure how better to breath in the open water. I'm looking forward to a few beach trips this summer to work on it.

mtntord

2009-05-20 11:28 AM

in reply to: #2163006

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Northern Virginia

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

cjhild - 2009-05-20 10:46 AM

The Garmin sounds pretty cool. I am scheming about giving my HRM to my wife so I can get one that at least has a lap function.

I am in the same boat with the HR and running. I just want to push myself to my limit. I have been reading some race reports of some of the more experienced guys and gals. They make it seem so elegant to go fast with a low heart rate. Made me realize that I just mashed through it all with my sprint.

SSMinnow

2009-05-20 12:05 PM

in reply to: #2163006

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Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country!

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

cjhild - 2009-05-20 9:46 AM

Hi Justin

I am definitely in a wetsuit! Temps last week were around 50F, but after two days of warm weather they are approaching the upper 50s! Our coach has us do a few drills before we swim to get us used to the cold water. The temps don't bother me too much, but the whitecaps do! Off for another beating over lunch.

By the way, I am working with a new tri coach and am relearning how to stay in Z2 for my ez runs. One thing that I did that helped was set my Garmin to see HR and distance only. That way I don't see how slow it is. It helped me get over the "OMG, I am running a 9:00 minute mile" syndrome!

PS. I had a great swim in the pool this morning. Everything felt pretty smooth and I was faster. I guess after having the crap beat out of me in OW, the pool seems so serene (and CLEAN!).

SSMinnow

2009-05-20 12:15 PM

in reply to: #2163333

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Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country!

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

mtntord - 2009-05-20 11:19 AM

SSMinnow - 2009-05-18 8:06 PM

Tonight was the first time I had to swim with 25mph winds and white caps.

One thing that my coach taught me is to get in the water, go under, burp your wetsuit and then float on your back. It gets your body used to the cold water. Otherwise, your lungs constrict and your breathing is all fouled up. I find it worked wonders for me. I do it every time I OWS.

2009-05-20 1:34 PM

in reply to: #2163006

New user

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

cjhild - 2009-05-20 7:46 AM

Thanks for that post! I am throwing the idea around of getting a Garmin, and the mapping feature is a cool one that would keep things interesting!

I am much like you, a bit frustrated with my running speed:heart rate ratio. That's where I thought the Garmin might be frustrating for me... "Oh, man -- I am running HOW SLOW?" But, I have pretty much learned to accept the fact that I probably only run a 12 or 13 minute mile at ~130BPM (I am 45 years old), and trust in the fact that I am building up my true aerobic base and will be getting faster at that same HR.

So, a couple of things that always affect my heart rate in a negative way: cooked from the day before, overtrained, overstressed, too much coffee, windy day, or just flat tired. Do any of these apply? Maybe you are just running too fast for your aerobic speed right now? Hang in there, I am sure Gordo will have much more to say...

I am relegated to the treadmill tonight. Did not get out to run early this morning (my son's 12th birthday, and he thinks it's Christmas morning, so he was up early) -- so in Phoenix, afternoon/evening runs in 'summer' are best done indoors!

ken

2009-05-20 3:16 PM

in reply to: #2163353

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

mtntord

I just want to push myself to my limit

Exactly. It is such a tough thing for me to balance because I want to go out there and smash it, but I know intellectually that to avoid injury and build fitness I cannot do that. The process continues....

2009-05-20 3:46 PM

in reply to: #2163455

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

SSMinnow -

Temps last week were around 50F

Yikes! That is freezing, you are tough!

set my Garmin to see HR and distance only..."OMG, I am running a 9:00 minute mile" syndrome!

I will have to try that, I am the same way, but I am "OMG, 11:00 minute mile!!!"

2009-05-20 3:49 PM

in reply to: #2163776

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Ken in AZ

Maybe you are just running too fast for your aerobic speed right now?

DING, DING, DING...we have a winner. I think that's it, I am working on my patience, something I have to work on in many aspects of my life, tri training is but another.

2009-05-20 4:37 PM

in reply to: #2164255

New user

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

I am working on my patience

One of the many humbling lessons triathlon affords us!

BabsVa

2009-05-21 7:27 AM

in reply to: #2072085

Expert

626

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

... Where's Gordo?

Oh there he is. Off on a hike.

Edited by BabsVa 2009-05-21 7:29 AM

mtntord

2009-05-21 8:17 AM

in reply to: #2072085

Veteran

187

Northern Virginia

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

That gave me good chuckle.

SSMinnow

2009-05-21 8:38 AM

in reply to: #2165189

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Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country!

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

BabsVa - 2009-05-21 7:27 AM

... Where's Gordo?

Oh there he is. Off on a hike.

I'm not sure he would go with that striped sweater!

No More Excuses

2009-05-21 9:14 AM

in reply to: #2159452

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

SSMinnow - 2009-05-18 7:10 PM

Glad to see you are finally coming home! If I were you, I would buy the bike and transport it in your car. The summer is too nice not to have wheels!

Suzy

BabsVa - 2009-05-20 8:42 AM

The answer to that is always yes :-) and the sooner the better

"Never postpone joy"

(full of quotes today)

I thought about trying to transport it in my car but I don't think there will be any room with all the stuff I have to bring with me. Also looks like I'll probably be getting back a couple of weeks later than before.
As much as I want to buy a bike right away when I get back I'm not sure if it's really worth it. The first two to three weeks after I get back will be pretty busy and by the time I get a chance to buy a bike I'll probably only have a week or so before block leave. Then I'll be gone for a month on leave and right after getting back going into a class for two weeks that will prohibit me from doing any tri training. After that I'll (hopefully) be moving again.

If I do get a bike right after I get back I can maybe get about 3 weeks of use over about a 3 month period before moving. It's better than nothing and would be nice, but still leaves the issue of safely transporting it. Hopefully I won't have any problems with finding someplace in California to buy a bike if I don't get one in Texas.

BabsVa

2009-05-21 11:04 AM

in reply to: #2072085

Expert

626

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Teehee! I sure hope G think's we're funny. I know I crack myself up :-D

Hey dudes check out books on running like by Ken Mierke or Jack Daniels (yes, I am not kidding that is his name) about running and paces and HR and stuff like that.

2009-05-21 4:00 PM

in reply to: #2159446

Extreme Veteran

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Boulder, CO

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

SSMinnow - 2009-05-18 6:06 PM G

Tonight was the first time I had to swim with 25mph winds and white caps. You can imagine how much I enjoyed that! The first drill was swimming directly into the waves and then back towards shore. I was getting hammered. About every second or third time I tried to take a breath, I was slammed by a wave, swallowed H20 and coughed like a maniac. Is there a technique to think about when swimming into the chop? away from it? what is the best way to regain composure?

I also found that when swimming parellel to the shore, if I stayed on my side too long the same thing happened. The wave crashes over you and gets you on its rebound. This is so counter intuitive to what people have been drilling in my head in the pool--stay on your side longer, glide, etc. Is OWS supposed to have a higher rate of turnover than pool swimming?

Suzy

Well, if you were able to even swim in those conditions then I'd say you have conquered your concerns over the water. I use the same technique myself -- go well past my comfort zone and hope that I can deal with it. Not exactly text book sports psychology but works for me.

Stroke rate -- in chop, there will be no glide -- so, yes, your rate could increase a bit. This is where the straight arm recovery is great because you are less likely to hit a wave when recovering.

Breathing side -- it's never going to be great swimming parallel to the waves -- I prefer out/back to 45 degrees at the most. One of those things where you have to deal with it. If you have made a habit of three stroke in the pool then going to two-stroke a missing a couple of breaths won't be a problem. You'll be used to coping.

So, to wrap up, as a smaller lady, you are going to be tossed each time you swim in 25 mph waves and white caps -- that's physics -- by practicing you'll learn to cope. We're all in the same boat in those conditions -- coping is much more likely than controlling.

Regain compose -- relaxed backstroke -- my go-to-stroke for settling down -- in a race, people have to swim around you. If you go-to breast then much easier for people to get on top of you.

Hope this helps,
g

2009-05-21 4:07 PM

in reply to: #2163006

Extreme Veteran

680

Boulder, CO

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

cjhild - 2009-05-20 8:46 AM

Pace -- personally, I never focused on pace/speed when I was early in my career -- it can be INCREDIBLY draining to have an athletic life built around target power/pace. Sucks the fun right out of it for many people.

So you might turn your pace display off and focus on enjoying the run. Sounds like the mapping feature is fun for you -- I know it would be fun for me as well. Remember you don't need to run to enjoy the mapping. At your current fitness level, hikes are an excellent way to build endurance and aerobic capacity. I did a TON of that sort of training before I ever started "training"... if you know what I mean. It's fun and very useful exercise.

As for knowing that you "ought" to do it certain way and still feeling frustration -- that's probably because you don't fully believe in the process. Natural thing, you are new to the process. With time you'll have results and set-backs that will help you fit in what you think works for you. Endurance sanity becomes easier as we experience both the highs and lows.

Hope this helps,
g

2009-05-23 10:19 AM

in reply to: #2072085

New user

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Felt Justin's pain this morning. Had a horrible 45 minute run, could not keep my HR under 135. Did a lot of walking and shuffling. Kind of discouraged...

But, my lessons from this are.... (Gordo please validate) -- 1. No more treadmill runs. Run outside whenever possible. This means early early runs in Phoenix from here through September. Run 3X a week. Normally I have been trying to hit "something" every day, whether it's weights, bike, elliptical, treadmill, etc. I feel that now I would like to try to get each sport in 2X a week, run 3.

2. Work on my psychology. I am fully aware that stress has a negative impact on my performance and my physiology. I received a legal letter last night (battling in an intense lawsuit right now, and it's ugly and involved family) that is weighing on my mind, so I think that had a lot to do with crappy run.

3. Take whatever the day gives me and call it good. Don't stress about not being able to run at my HR. Easier said than done while out there (and the frustration usually does not help the HR any)... but feel OK about getting out there and doing it.

On with the day... still would like to get a strength session in (abbreviated) and have my son's 12th birthday pool party with 15 kids.... WOO HOO!

Have a great weekend folks...

ken

2009-05-23 5:18 PM

in reply to: #2169605

Extreme Veteran

680

Boulder, CO

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Ken,

That all sounds good -- another thing that I'd add is to warm-up. A mellow opening ten minute walk, then a gentle first five minutes of the run goes a LONG way for helping you out overall. An early spike (if you are stressed, or even felling great) can impact an entire workout.

The something-every-day is really what it's about. Especially when life stress is high, the release from some form of morning movement is highly valuable.

g

2009-05-23 6:50 PM

in reply to: #2166790

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

GordoByrn

Hope this helps

Every time. Thanks G.

2009-05-23 6:58 PM

in reply to: #2072085

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

I have had a cold the last couple days, very good ride on Thursday but I've been relaxing since that. I have my local 5k tomorrow that I wanted to go for a PB in, but I will just be looking to finish it since I have been under the weather.

What are you guys up to for the holiday? I have a kids b-day pool party/BBQ on Monday, so we won't be doing anything BIG.

2009-05-23 7:00 PM

in reply to: #2165881

Extreme Veteran

566

Southern California

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

BabsVa

Ken Mierke...(yes, I am not kidding that is his name)

I kind of like the name Ken.

BabsVa

2009-05-24 6:43 AM

in reply to: #2072085

Expert

626

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Rode 50 miles yesterday, took about 3 hours. Hilly! and now the quads won't let me forget it. Rode with a very good cyclist for a bit, drafted off him and watched him shoot down the hills at must be close to 45 mph. Or more. It was big fun. Brick run after.

Today family hike on the Appalachian Trail to the waterfall, then strawberry picking.

Tomorrow swim with my training bud who is prego - we saw the ultrasound yesterday - I'm gonna be an 'auntie!'

There is an Olympic tri 6/28 near where we will be visiting family so I'm gonna do that! It will be a great diversion from the drama (Ken, can you relate?) but I need to figure out training for the next month in order to be ready for it.

Happy Memorial Day, all.

2009-05-24 11:29 AM

in reply to: #2170442

New user

Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

BabsVa - 2009-05-24 4:43 AM

(Ken, can you relate?)

I can totally relate, I just wish my 'drama' wasn't so expensive! My next hurdle is to learn to quiet my mind while out on the bike and run.... swimming I somehow can shut it off (maybe it's the lap counting).... Looking forward to finally getting back to Masters next week.

Second the book by Ken Mierke. Great guy. Gordo -- can you weigh in on footstrike for running? I am a heel striker, but I run so darned slow that I am not sure running midfoot would help.

Just got back from a nice 2 hour bike. A little stiff in my back and neck still, but kept my HR around 130-135 the whole ride. Hoping to relax the rest of the day and maybe start reading "The Primal Blueprint," which I just got in the mail yesterday. Book by Mark Sisson - former world class marathoner and Ironman triathlete (owner of Primal Nutrition - "Damage Control Master Formula" vitamins)... should be a good read.

Have a great weekend everyone...

ken