Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED (Page 13)

Just wanted to say Steve is awesome...you guys are in good hands and he has some solid advice.  Ok, I won't troll in your group.  Good luck everybody.

I love the activity of this group! I had a busy day getting a seafood dinner on the table for our families annual New Years Eve celebration. That's done and all cleaned up but now we're going to watch a movie and ring in 2011 by watching the ball drop on TV. Excitement abounds! I'll need to spend some time catching up with everyone's posts, but wanted to drop a note to wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR!! I'm looking forward to learning from you all and sharing in your adventures.

LAURA -

Outstanding! However, i wasn't able to make the link work. this is probably just me being cyber-stupid, and I will poke around later and see if I can find it -- somehow, somewhere.

Without the report at hand.....how did you find it? Is it a distance to which you might want top return, maybe even frequently....or at least sporadically?

I hope your nap was sound, and that you are refreshed and ready to enjoy the evening. And may the race champage be every bit as good as your accomplishment in having done it. Wear that feather in your cap proudly!

RESOLUTION RUN 10km "Race" Report


This is a high-key/low-key event. The Running Room, a huge chain of running stores across Canada, puts this on every Dec. 31. Smaler cities have just a 5km, larger ones such as Ottawa have both a 5km and a 10km. About 2000 people were at the Ottawa one tonight, and I would guess that at least 2/3 were in the 5km; maybe slightly more. that is the high-key part --- lots and lots of participants! the low-key part is that it is not chip-timed, and the only acknowledgement of time istwo clocks at the finish line, one for each event.

I went into this somewhat seriously, and for a kind of meaningless run I got some good lessons from it; I will mention these in the post following this one. My goal here was to run as best I could, while recognizing that my volume has been dramatically reduce since Oct. 23, to the tune of maybe 10 runs, maybe totalling about 75 km (45 miles).

Finish time: 47:50
2.5km splits:
12:01
12:13
11:54
11:44
(Those reflect a gradual ascent into a slight wind on the way out, and a welcome reverse of it coming back.)

I was really hoping to hit the 2.5km marker at about 11:30, but was 31" off. My sweet goal for this was sub-47, so when I hit the turnaround at 24:14, i corected figured that the goal was going to be missed. Shucks! But noit surprising, either, as I will mention in the next post.

Overall, I'm okay with it. I dressed wisely -- tri shorts, long-sleeve tech top with flimsy vest atop that, a lightweight touque, running gloves....and no socks. i wore them walking from the car to the start, and then on a brief two-minte warm-up, and then deciided to ditch 'em. My feet were never cold, and my body was fine once I got moving. Temp was about 5C (42F?), slight wind, drizzle from 6km to the finish....overall very pleasant!

Nice event, would've liked chip-timing but what the heck. For $50 I got an awesome tech running jacket, bright coral/orange. maybve 60% of the particpants were wearing theirs, and it kind of looked like an army of pylons or road cones, gone rampant!

Shannen --
Thanks for the input, I am hoping that my lessons will help me with the breathing as well.  In terms of the bike, since I haven't really ever "raced" I am not certain how to increase bike speed.  I know for leg strength, I do squats and lungs.  One thing I was told was hill intervals and sprint intervals are helpful.  I am sure that the more experience racers here will have better insight in to improving bike speed.

Alex 

WORTHWHILE LESSONS FROM THE OTTAWA RESOLUTION RUN 10KM(see above):

(1) You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Meaning: great results won't come from less-than-stellar training. As I said above, my volume was way down leading into this; intensity also. Knowing this, I have no right to expect a great race, nor should I bat up on myself and feel the sky is falling. I ned to keep hat perspective in mind!

(2) Training and racing are not always linear. Meaning: performance never continues to improve and improve and improve, and this can happen for all sorts of reasons -- substandard training (as above), poor nutrition, weather, just plain old flatness. It is always good to try to figure out why one training day or race was below hopes and expectations, as there is usually a reason for it other than (a) thinking the end is nigh, (b) that you have permanently lost your edge, or (c) that you will never do well again.

(3) When we take a break (injury, or off-season rest, or vacation), we cannot realistically expect to jump right back in where we were when we were training regularly. My last three 10km race-runs were 45:31 (olympic tri, Sept 18), 47:26 (oly tri, Sept 25) and 44:02 (stand-alone run, Oct 17). Then I did a half-marathon the following week, did a couple more runs, and then took a full month off from running between Nov 3 and Dec 4. Since then I have done about 4 or 5 runs, is all, so to expect to come close to those times is really very unrealistic -- the work wasn't there! (see #1).

(4) Loss of running fitness can come fairly quickly in the wake of a break, and this is perfectly normal and to be expected. For me tonight, the telling symptom is my calves -- they are howling at me already, and will raise a full-throttle din by tomorrow. I didn't feel anything untoward during the run itself, but literally within two minutes of finishing they started to hurt. This is a sure sign that (a) I had lost some fitness ,and (b) I had pushed it too hard, considering my less-than-intense work regimen leading up to tonight. My calves will be fine by maybe Sunday, but had I tweaked my achilles or a hamstring, that would be a different story altogether!



---- It's not often that a race can produce some good reminders and/or learning moments, but this one did. I hope some of those points are useful to some of you, and if not then at least it was good for me to type them out and commit the lessons better to memory. For as long as I've been doing this stuff, I still make mistakes and lose my perspective on what I am capable of, given recent training and other considerations. DOH!

For triathlon, you need to build muscular endurance, not weight lifting strength. 
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/strengthening/a/aa123098a.htm

The link above coincides with numerous other studies that I have read on the subject.

Roger

Edited by bhc 2010-12-31 8:32 PM

CRAIG -

Welcome back, and glad to see you; I was getting worried!

You have some company with the later New Year's. You are joined by Melinda and Johanne and Daniel from California, and Whato from British Columbia. Also joining you is Gene from Wsahington, but he hasn't returned since the first day of the group -- another person for mother hen here to worry about. Bruck, bruck!







Edited by stevebradley 2010-12-31 8:30 PM

SHANNEN -

First, good to have you back!
Second, nice photo! (Who are the accessories?)
Third, great post.....which I will now address!

Fortunate are the meagre few who embark on swimming as adults and find quick success. Most of us have done it your way, which is gradually and via a long succession of baby steps. It is the equally rare person who does a ton of work and yet never gets comfortable or competent in the water, and that's good news because for the vast majority of us......it happens!

I posted to Alex and Ellen earlier that swimming is complex, and often requires a mental checklist to go over all of the fine points that are involved in successfully and relatively effortlessly navigating a given distance. You say the same thing in your post, referring to breathing, and then arsm, and then the sinking tokhis, and then kicking. Swimming is one big kinesiological (sp?) chain, and as we all know -- chain is only as strong as its weakest link. It is those weak links, of course, that slow our desired progress, and as you have learned, it i often difficult to pinpoint exactly where the problem(s) lie.

And you're right -- your speed will indeed improve over time, but with more endurance and also with on-going skill and technique refinements. The swim is my weakest area, but i have spent hundreds of hours working on it. I like to say that when I started swimming seriously in '00 I made a meteoric rise to mediocrity...... and that since then my progress has been as leisurely as the drifting of the continents. (Why I like to say that, I do not know. Maybe laughing just to keep from crying? )

I self-deprecate some there, and really -- I do continue to improve, albeit very slowly. Baby steps! I still hope for leaps and bounds, still work at achieving the One Definitive Step, but so far.....just baby steps.

You have been wise to do lessons, and it is obvious that you have benefitted from them. Do you continue to do them as long as time and money allow, or diod you figure you have enough of the basics now to work things through on your own. Just curious!

As for your bike question, see the next post!

SHANNEN again -

Did you get a chance to look at the link Roger posted. That is some excellent advice, and I quite agree with it. Roger's summation of what you hould be after -- "muscular endurance" -- is right on, and all you need to do is watch professional cyclists to see that 98% of them do not have massive quads and bulging calves.

I like to refer to my strength work as "functional strength". That is, i am not lifting in order to become "shredded" or even anything close to that, but rather to just add some subtle strength.

BUT --

I have not done ANY lower-body work since early '06, when I tore my meniscus. That didn't happen from lifting, but the fear of it recurring has been enough to keep me completely away from some of the supposed standard lower-body exercises for cyclists and other endurance types, such as squats and leg presses. And despite that, my cycling has improved dramatically in the past few seasons, as has my ability to run in general and, more pleasingly, to run well off the bike in triathlons. And in my case, this has all happened in the absence of any lower-body stregth work.

HOWEVER --

If you didn't yet see Roger's link, here is what is in the first paragraph under the section "What's the Answer", as it applies to cyclistsand runners and othere endurance-based athletes:
"If you look at the subjects in the different studies, it becomes evident that those who benefit from strength training are individuals who are relatively new to the sport and not highly trained. These untrained individuals will beneft from any increase in general fitness, be it an improvement in strength or endurance. This explains why the greater muscle strength increases endurance performance in these individuals."
There is more in the whole article, and it is really worth reading. I think I will point it out to the group-at-large.

So........
If you want to weight-train to help with your cycling, focus on low eight and high(er) reps. Think about tone rather than bulk. Many of the cyclists to whom I refer above are quite scrawny, really, with no immeidate jaw-dropping muscular at all visible (in fact, it's not here, period). What they do have is vast experience, and with it awesome technique. There is a bundle of aspects to this, too, and much of it focuses on pedal-stroke mechanics; it's almost as complex as swimming! I will introduce some of this later; if it doesn't appear within a week or two, rattle my cage to remind me!

One final thought for now is your fit on the bike. There is a good chance that you aren't positioned well on your bike, so for any number of fit-related reasons you aren't able to access the greatest amount of power, and maybe not even close to it. i see scores of people at any given race who obviously have a poor position on their bike, and I'd love for each and every one of them to scramble to their nearest competent bike fitter and get themselves fit properly to their bike. Did you ever get a comprehensive fitting for your bike? If not, that might be a good deal of the frustration you are feeling with your cycling performances. Let me know, okay?

DUNCAN -

Has Little Miss Newborn made her grand appearance yet? If so, has she sufficiently wowed her fan base? I'll bet she has!

I hope all three of you are doing great. What a truly fabulous way to begin a year!

GANG!

Please have a look at he link Roger has posted, seventh one from the top of this page. This is especially useful for those of you who do strength work somewhat regularly.

GANG again!

I have to split the scene here now, freeing up the phone line so jane and Peter can call and wish their dear old dad a happy new year. (At least that's my hope! )

So, I might not be back until tomorrow, when 2010 is almost a distant memory.

Bye for now!

I have been using a HRM for the past year.  I started out with a $75 Nike that I gave to my wife when i upgraded to aTimex IM from REI for $125 or so; works great, even in the pool.  I always use it when I run, but truth be told I could do just as well with perceived exertion level, especially now that I have used the HRM for awhile.  that being said I'll stick with the HRM, it's a bit of a security blanket.



























 

I hadn't checked the site for a few days, not since I signed up, I'm a little surprised and impressed with the volume.  everything has been very inspirational.  I was standing outside my Y at 4:55 this morning in 14 new inches of snow and -10 degrees, and had a great swim, needless to say the pool wasn't very crowded.

Strength training vs endurance strength training

I come from a family of bodybuilders and Power Lifters.  I am neither.  I went the endurance route.  My family and I have discussed this issue many many many times over Thanksgiving dinner and other get togethers.  My sister has been on the cover of Powerlifting Magazine and we disagree on what is more important.  Just for reference, she is 115 lbs and can squat 520lbs.  I have no idea how much I can squat since that is not part of my training.  She blows me away in lifting but she struggles to keep up with me on endurance sports.  She does pretty well in 5K's but struggles in anything more than that.  Doing less reps and heavier weights has a different effect on your muscles than more reps but lower weights. 

Have you ever noticed sprinters have really high and tight calf muscles were marathon runners have long calf muscles?  The muscles are built differently on short, quick acceleration vs long endurance runs. 

I won't argue that strength training helps with endurance sports.  I agree with that but the kind of strength training you do should target the kind of results you want to have.  This is what we disagree on.  I am not saying I am right, just have found this to be true for me.  I do not have a medical degree or anything close, just going off my own personal experience. 

Edited by jslacker 2011-01-01 6:00 AM

My running club (Wabash River Runners Club) is putting on a "Run in the New Years" run today.  Its a great way to get the community out and running the first of the year.   After the run, the Hilton has a great breakfast set up for us and we sit around talking about this year's goals.  I have picked up a lot of great information about Triathlons from these talks.  

GENE -

Great! You're still here! You were another of the ones I was worried about, as I knew you hdn't returned since page 1 (believe it or not, I'm keeping track!).

The way you refer to your HRM -- "security blanket" -- is good. I haven't ever thought of it that way, but back in the days I was loyal to mine, that was the how it worked for me. I think I abandoned it when I stopped wanting the security and just wanted to go fast without any reins. And yet, I see many faster-than-I-am triathletes wearing their HRM at races, so the reining-in aspect obviously doesn't affect them. Hmmmm.

Curiously, I found my HRM most useful when I was NOT trying to rein myslf in, which was killer sessions on the treadmill. Here, its function was to assure me that what I was going through was not at my limits, even though it sure felt that way. That is, if my max was 187bpm and I was dying, but my HRM said 173........I knew I could keep on without fear of exploding or imploding. I guess, though, that is just a different degree of security, kind of "reverse security"?

Kudos to you for being up and about and fully functional at 4:55a.m. -- AND in cold temps ad deep snow! Do you normally do your workouts in the early morning, or is that just the time you can get to the pool. Our pools in Ottawa were closed yesterday, and today as well, so at least for yesterday Spokane was much more triathlete-friendly. I'm keen on a swim tomorrow, but so will xxx others, so it'll be a zoo. I will get there at 11:30 sharp ans swim until there are seven others in my lane. Then I'm outta there!

Do you follow the Chiefs at all? That is, Spokane hockey, as opposed to K.C. football. Just curious!

JOHN -

I've owed you a response or two for a while now, beyond the initial one which was before your bio was posted.

Second things first -- the meniscus. Mine tore in March '06, and it took several months to schedule a comprehensive MRI. that showed the tear to be what is called "longitudinal" meaning it ran along the long axis of the meniscus. my sports doc told me that surgery would be risky, in the sense that too much cartilege would nedd to be removed, and that further down the road I was highly likely to have severe problems with it. Most meniscus tears can be surgical fixed by excising the "flap" that has torn loose and is somewhat exposed, but that's not trhe case with longitudinal tears. So, for me it was just waiting for it to heal on its own -- no timeline, really, and no guarantees.

I was extremely smart with my recovery, which is something I've gotten pretty good at over the years (it doidn't use to be that way.... ). By the time I did my first aquabikes with it, I was at least able to semi-run from the water to the bike; well, maybe "shuffle" is more like it. And then in my last aqbk of theat season, which was about Sept 6, I ran quite briskly a few hundred yards to T1; that was the first proof I had that I was pretty much healed. I think I took another month or so off from running, just to be safe; my competitive season was over anyhow, so why push it?

All of that is just to say to be careful with yours. But if you are back running on it and do okay except for needing post-run icing, you may be past any danger points. I sure hope so!

If any serious injury can have good aspects to it, it is in allowing us to spend time on other areas -- in your case, the swim. For me it was both the swim and the bike, and later on I will tell you how doing those aquabike events allowed me to "turn the corner" on my performances. My first "best bad injury" was a tibila stress fracture in esarly '00 that got me into triathlon from just straight running. the second "best bad injury" was the meniscus, which taught me how to ride HARD. But more on that later!

Anyhow, you can see why I wrote to Shannen and Roger that I stay way clear of things like squats and leg presses using those big platforms to push up against. It is remarkable what your sister can squat; she must have massive quads! I too have noticed sprinter musculature, and so many of them feature massive quads, along with the distinctive calf structure you mention. Physiognomies never cease to amaze me!

You mention going from sprints to Ironman, and also that you hope to do an oly and a half-iron in there. I definitely support that idea, if you can swing it, just so you can get a better idea of your nutritional needs while working hard for 5-6 hours. There are other benefits to having at least one HIM under your belt before Louisville, but to my mind that's the biggest.

Is Muncie an option for you? it's kind of too bad that it is now an "official" 70.3 race, as that dramatically increases the likelihood it will fill up before you are maybe ready to sign up for it. I did it in '03, and while the bike was quite flat, there were a few climbs in there. I think the course has changed a few times since '03, so if there is any substantial topography in that area......maybe they have located it for the course!

I'm also a very big fan of "test-driving" an IM or HIM course before race day, so if you can get to Louisville and ride the bike course, that would help you immensely. I understand that the LOO bike is deceptively tricky, and that wind on the final long run back to T2 can be a big factor. But the swim and run are very straightforward, with the swim involving no wetsuit and tighty-packed quaters for the first third of it, in skanky water, and the run being flat and HOT. Heck, you can train well for the LOO run just staying at home and suffering in the heat throughout July and August. Piece of cake!

Excellent commitment to training right now, with each discipline at 2 times a week - especially with your family structure. Three kids at those ages make for a major commitment to the family!

And REALLY excellent commitment to Yoga and stretching!! I am very slack at that sort of thing.....which is why I continue to be on the Top 100 Most Inflexible People on the Planet lists. Each year I rsolve to be better......and each year I foresake it. I'm great at doing lifting, but addressing flexibility issues...........sigh.

Finally, and getting away from you for a moment, if your wife continues to struggle with PF I can try to describe a very simple taping procedure I used when I had mine in '08. It is deceptively simple, but worked really well. That, combined with wearing one of those boots while sleeping, kept me going in '08. The boot can be viewed at www.injurybegone.com, the website for Pro-Tec products. I am a terrible sleeper even at the best of times, and I was worried that wearing that boot would make a bad sleep-situation worse. But it is very lightweight and has enough soft padding to it that it really didn't affect my sleep, and also didn't bruise the other foot by clunking against it! It serves to keep the foot in dorsiflexion while sleeping, and that is one of the best things that can happen for the fasciia.

HNY!

JOHN again -

After the loooooong last one, just a quickie for now.

I am envious of your run/breakfast/gabfest with the WRRC this morning. That sounds wonderful, and then some.

Ae you a Purdue boy? Poor Kyle Orton -- looks like he's been "Tebowed" out of a position in Denver. He started off the season putting up some amssive numbers, and then it has all just crumbled around him........

Yes, I am a Purdue guy!  I have a lot of running friends that work for Purdue.  This allows me access to their facilities.  The indoor track is really nice for speed work during the winter. 

Thanks for the PF info.  I will take any information on it I can get.  My wife has tried the boot, sock, icing, and breaking up the scar tissue with a hard ball.  I have looked into tapes but haven't tried anything for her on this yet. 

I know going from a spring to an IM is a big step but I use to do 24-36 hour adventure races.  I learned a lot about what I need during those races.  If I messed up on my calorie intake, I bonked.  I did Adventure races because I couldn't swim.  I am hoping to change that.  Also the Adventure races had mountain biking instead of tri bikes.  Most of the races were off road and I love to trail run.  We did have support crews that took care of us so being self sufficent will be a challenge. 

Off to the run and BREAKFAST.   I run so I can eat!!!!!!

I definitely agree about the differences in muscle comp.  I also stay away for pure strength training, most everything I do is body weight exercises for my lower body, squats/lunges etc... I also do Tae Kwon Do which helps in the strength area but we don't focus on lifting strength as much as functional strength - and of course flexibility...

Alex

JOHN -

Oh! Adventure races of THAT length! Well, you should have a huge leg up on the nutrition for IMLOO. Seriously!

I have a few problems with WTC, but in general the M-dots work well to ensure that participants aren't all that self-sufficient. The aid stations are abundant, and usually stay well-stocked. i think there was a problem at some of the run stations ai this past IMLOO, but tha is the exception rather than the rule.

It is very helpful to have the special needs bags on both the bike and run. I have used these to pretty good effect at both of my irons, and if you really olan it right you can do yourself a huge favor by having some really desirable items in them. It is amazing the cravings one develops during an iron, so lots of people stock their s.n. bags with stuff they would ordinarily NEVER think of consuming during a race or lengthy training session. The true exotics should be restricted to the bike s.n. bag, as if nasties like bad cramps develop, it is best to deal with them on the bike than on the run. Urp!

Well, that's just a preview of coming attractions -- there's still roughly 240 days until you stand on the edge of the Ohio and take the plunge!

Congrats Laura!  I'll get to reading your race report soon, but until then, great job finishing your 10k!