Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL (Page 14)

As self-coached athletes (or investors, or parents, or husbands...), I'm not sure that we can ever really get past a lot of the myths, or our habits/patterns.  Best I've managed is figuring out my most common mistakes and doing my best to avoid them - that is what I am always writing about my errors.  

For me, that the #1 benefit of being a teacher, I am affirming, and reminding myself about, the way I want to live/train.

Question, I've heard about the 10% rule, but don't quite understand it fully.  Does that apply to the month?  Can increase miles/min. 10% from previous month or is it week?  And, does this still apply when training by HR?  I missed a run last week, can I add it in this week since my runs are "lighter" in effort cuz I'm going by HR.  Are they really "lighter" in effort or does it just feel that way?  Also does the 10% rule apply to all workouts or just running?  Do you agree with the 10% rule?

Ok, sorry that was more than one question.

Thanks,

Mel

Mel,

Let's wrap some numbers around your situation.

Normal run duration?  

Long run duration?

Years run training?

Running injuries in last year?

+++

Answer those Qs and tell me where you plan on taking your running over the next two months.

g

 Jeff,

 Let's say that we are talking about an Oly Distance athlete.  Projected splits are: Swim 30 Minutes; Bike 90 Minutes; Run 60 Minutes.

 First goal would be to get the athlete, relaxed and efficient so they can go 30/90/60 minutes (separate workouts) in each sport.  If someone is starting from scratch, this will take a while because there is little point in rushing and getting hurt.

 Next goal would be to start working on the endurance to do a three hour event (30+90+60).  Now the athlete might find it overwhelming to do a solo triathlon of those durations.  So we should consider hiking as well as cycling -- safe ways to build the endurance to train for three hours.

 We might rotate weekends.... 

 Weekend One -- long general endurance (hike, bike, or bike then hike)

 Weekend Two -- Swim Bike Run; but shorter than race distance/duration -- goal is to build endurance and pace is easy/steady

 Weekend Three -- cut way back; lower training stress; focus on something other than triathlon but do a little training in something

 The way you lay out the progression over a week/weekend/day.. that looks fine to me.  Remember that this is AEROBIC training -- and -- most will have to go EASY when they are extending their endurance.  We want to build endurance, not deeply fatigue the athlete.  These are some long sessions to wrap your head around when you are ramping up.

 I probably should have said "duration" rather than "time".  Your interpretation is correct, when I say "for time" I am often talking about a TT.  However, in this case, I am talking about building endurance capacity and aerobic economy.

 Please follow up with your follow on questions.  This is a very valuable approach for building triathlon specific endurance.  The best athletes (all distances) apply it but it doesn't get picked up in many discussions.

 Finally, remember not to compromise the next day's training.  There have been times where I got a little too excited in training and "used" fitness rather than building it up.

 g

HELLO GORDO.

could you explain what you meant in more detail, i think i get the gist, but just want to be certain i understand exactly how this should work....im anticipating a point in my trng (end of January) when i want to do some 'SBR for time' but i want to be sure to go about it in the most healthfull/safe manner. 

YOU POSTED:  Training duration -- two things to shoot for here...

swim/bike/run - SBR for TIME the components of your race in a week, then a long weekend, then a weekend, then a day.  This works up to Half IM distance.  So you get your body used to swim, then bike, then run.  You don't need to go fast, or rush transitions.  First, you get yourself used to simply going the distances.

OOOOH.  SEE BELOW.....

JEFF.  seems we both had the same question....

GORDO.  your answer to Jeff answers my question.  no need to address my question seperately.  i get it.

G, Got it thanks.  BTW - does "TT" mean "time trial"?

I'm starting to pick up the lingo (SBW, IM, etc...).  My 16 year old doesn't understand why I don't text message (I can't understand what they are saying!!!!!)  I'll get there one day. 

 TT does = time trial // generally, that means best average pace/power/effort for the distance but not always.  Some folks will see to do an "aerobic" time trial where they either stay under a goal HR, or try to average a heart rate that is under functional threshold (FT).  

I do quite a lot of aerobic benchmarking at 140bpm as well as 150 bpm.  I find there is quite valuable information that can be learned from the heart rate performance curve of an athlete.

 Example of a run Aerobic TT (that the Group could use):

 Warm up with 15-20 minutes of Recovery effort running or cycling

Perform this test at a track (1 lap = 400 meters or ¼ of a mile)

Total test distance is four miles (continuous)

Split the test distance in half with two miles Steady and two miles Mod-Hard

Run two miles with a target heart rate at the bottom of your Steady zone

Run two miles with a target heart rate at the top of your Mod-Hard zone

Track your average pace for each half mile

While the precise heart rate that you use for each leg of the test isn’t important, make sure that you use the SAME heart rate for all your tests.  Also make sure that you don’t exceed your target heart rate.

g

Swim intensity - a tough one for many of us.

 ++

Can you swim for 15 minutes, relaxed. without stopping? 30 min? 45 min? 60 min?

I ask because until we have the ability to go "easy" for an hour at any sport... that should be our #1 priority.

 ++

Can you swim three stroke breathing continuous for 400/1000/1600....?

If you need to go to two stroke breathing, then you are likely over threshold and going hard.

 ++

 How do I learn swim pacing...

 #1 learn how to relax in the water

#2 learn how to use the clock

 ++

 Simple swim pacing exercise... five swims on 10s rest.  Goal is to do each swim slightly faster than the one before.  Let's say you can swim 1000 in a workout.  Then do...

5x200 on 10s rest interval (RI)

 See if you can swim each one faster than the one before.

As your endurance builds, get to 5x500 with the same goal.  

Swimming a set where each interval is faster is called descending.  You get your GordoGoldStar when you can swim each one faster and don't need to go to two-stroke until part way through the 4th interval.  

When you can swim each one faster then #2 is "steady" pace.  When we are new to swimming, we tend to convince ourselves that we are going easier than we think.  The long swim TTs as well as sets (like 5x500 descend on short rest) where you have to get faster at the end... these workouts help us to train our minds.  

If we can't control ourselves in training then we will go absolutely BANANAS when it comes to a race (you can easily see that in HR data).  Early lactate spiking impairs endurance performance (and fat metabolism).

 g

 PS -- a favorite for Ironman training is to build up to 5x1000 descend on 20s RI; that is a tough set to do well.  You can find more swim workout ideas here - http://www.endurancecorner.com/library/swimming/workouts

30 min trainer ride - avg 75-80 rpm, 5 x 30 sec intervals 90-95 rpm between 10-20 minutes, avg hr 127, max 148

Gordo, is it normal for HR to be slightly lower while riding in aero on the trainer?

 Yes, that is completely normal -- when I was starting out the gap between road:trainer for the same perceived effort was close to 10 bpm.

Hey G quick question for you.

Did my long slow run saturday aiming to keep HR under 155 so did walking warm up then gentle running. My HR went straight up to 168 after 4 minutes even though I wasn't at all pushing it and could breathe through my nose comfortably. after 6 minutes it was down to 155 and stayed between 145-155 the remaining 40 minutes.

Is that normal ? I feel I cant go any slower without losing run form and just bouncing up and down which is not good for my knees. I have found running with the ipod on using a "podrunner" mix at 165bpm is perfect for my long slow runs and recommend them to all. www.djsteveboy.com

dave

New year, back at home, and time to get back in the saddle. Last 10 days were running only. So today I did an easy 30 minutes bike on the trainer. I could tell it had been 10 days off.

Heart Rate data

Gordo,

I like the new website.

Brian

Brian,

 Thanks.  Our group is providing me a great refresher course in the issues facing new triathletes.  I should be able to write a few articles that help get people started.

g

 Dave,

Qs... how long did you walk to warm-up?  Did you walk with a purpose to get yourself moving?  Did it "feel" like your HR was 168?  Any transmission lines or other potential sources of HR interference?  Sometimes, we can get strange HR readings with interference as well as before we crack a sweat.

 You are smart to avoid bouncing.  [By the way, we had a Q about HR differences at same pace run vs walk -- bouncing could be the cause of higher HR when run]

What you might consider is ten minutes of walking to kick off and walking with a purpose.  I was experimenting on my treadmill this weekend (living la vida loca...) and found that I could hold a pretty good clip while power walking.  I have an idea for a YouTube clip on run form and walking -- will let the group know when it is live.

 g

Thanks G answers to your qs

warm up walk was about 1km and was fast walking (about 7km/h). HR didn't feel like 168 at all in fact it felt same as when it showed 148-150 on the monitor so could be interferance. I read in the manual sometimes static from nylon tops can affect the reading. Most "whicking" tops are mainly man made fibres so probably got something to do with it although it is strange it then settles. might be that once I get a bit sweaty the sensors get a stronger reading and the interferance is not picked up.

I will try a longer warmup walk and see how that goes. Let you know tomorrow

Dave

17 min run on TM today, and ST

cruisin' right along, but i had a strange number come up at the end of my wrkout (see below)

w the talk of 'interference' i wonder if that might be the cause of this odd number, but then TM HR monitor had the same reading (it picks up my HR strap and reads it out on the display....)

the number caught my attn cuz it seems out of the ordinary.  i had another low HR number come up once - 46 - but i had been laying down, stretching on the mat, as soon as i sat up the number 'perked' right up....

i doesnt have me overly concerned, my resting HR is about 55-65 typically...BUT when i got this 'low' i certainly wasnt resting.  i was walking at 3.8, comfortably, but still walking, and just completed my run.  interesting.....

HR rate data 17 min run 1/5

START:  81  increased pace to 3.8

10 min:  114  increased pace to 4.0

4 min:  125/115 after 1 min walking at 3.8, increased pace to 4.5

9 min:  134/120, increased pace to 5.0

14 min:  141/125, increased pace to 5.0

17 min:  139/126, maintained walking pace 3.8

4 min:  56*

GORDO, YOU POSTED....

'Can you swim three stroke breathing continuous for 400/1000/1600....?

If you need to go to two stroke breathing, then you are likely over threshold and going hard.'

i know this will be really beneficial to me to keep me from the tendency to work unnecessarily hard....thanks.

i know i can go 15 mins and swim continuously as far as relaxed, still working on that one

as for 30, 60, 90 mins ive never attempted it.....yet.

as for the 3 stroke breathing ive gone as far as 200 yds wout falling into 2 stroke breathing.

my trng plan that im using for swimming has me doing 25, 50, 100 yd drills w 10s rest in between....

since ive been following the plan, i havent had  much opportunity to swim longer....YET.  a longer endurance swim drill is coming up...next week in fact.  im swimming 300 yds. 

my focus will be (as you suggested)  to relax. 3 stroke breathing. learn how to use the clock.  CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THAT?  for the 300 what would be the best use of the clock for that particular swim?  anything to do/keep in mind that would be benficial?

and as i suggested, reminding myself to resist the 'urge' to push/rush/work unnecessarily 'hard'

steady as she goes.....

and your 'descending' 1000m drill sounds like a great one to do!  ill be sure to file that one away to do on a later date.  thanks for the link too.

ttow!

Woohoo I have some exciting news for myself.  I finally bought my first road bike. I get to pick it up on Wednesday.  So excited and great movitation for going a little harder since I have some decent equipment now. Pictures will come after I get it.

 Giant OCR A0