Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 14)

Joan: Just read your RR.  Congratulations and awesome display of toughness and perserverance.  Great job!!!

-Mitch

Ernesto, if I may distract you for a moment from your upcoming race...

I did a tempo run this morning of 2 miles and was pretty happy with the 8:43 pace I got (best mile ever).  I'm not sure if that's a good distance for this kind of run, but it felt good, and at this point I couldn't have done more.  But now that I'm getting heart rate info from the Garmin, I wonder if I have the zones set correctly.

I set my run HR zones based on advice from a previous mentor, but he subsequently dropped off the forums inexplicably and I couldn't really follow up on if I had it right.  My zones and the time I was in them in this run were as follows:

This was based on a resting heart rate of 62 but I think that should be more like 60 now.  Are these set right, and what would you make of the results here?

Also, I'd like to set some zones for the bike now that I can measure them.  Would they be the same as the run?

Thanks for any input,

Mike

Thanks Chris.  I read up on it first.  I started out with 1/4 mile and am up to a mile now.  I do it at the end when I'm cooling down, partly running and then walking.  I also have been walking around barefoot at home a lot more, even though I've always done that.  Since I'm not fast and don't log a lot of miles yet, I decide to try the transition sooner rather than later.  I'm two hours away from the nearest running shoe store, so I've just been doing barefoot either on the newly paved asphalt that's very smooth or the green grass that doesn't pinch, until I can get to the store.

What I recommend is that you change your settings in the heart rate zones to Maffetone's heart rate table and delete the one you have right now (Karvonen). The reason is simple, you lack an aerobic base. I know you're eager to get fast but the best way to get fast is to run slow (I know, I know). You must think I'm nuts.

Here's the theory: 95% of the time you run on your aerobic system (recruiting red muscle fibers). You want to train in that zone to teach your body efficiency, after all the only difference between a Kenyan and yourself is running economy. This means that at the same effort his output is much faster than you or me.

Training doing tempos and intervals is ABSOLUTELY necessary to teach your body to go fast but 70% of your training should be focused on slower runs where proper form, running economy and low heart rates are the three legs sustaining you pace.

All this said, you should be pursuing to maintain a heart rate of 180 minus your age, regardless of the pace that it yields. Keep in mind that this may even be a fast walk.  The longer you train at that heart rate, the faster you will run. At the beginning of this training it will be slow, after a few months it will mean a LOT more speed relative to the effort.

Also remember that progress in endurance sports in measured in years, not days. Patience and determination, brother. That's all it takes!

You know what? our running pace is IDENTICAL, we're twins Chris! haha.

Mike,

Ernesto made me a believer in Maffetone.  His website has a lot of good information.  www.philmaffetone.com.  Go back and read the archives for our mentoring group and get the book.

I remember complaining to Ernesto that I had to walk because the heart rate monitor kept beeping at me when I was over my aerobic HR threshold.  It really seemed frustrating because it was so slow.  I wasn't that fast to begin with, but walking felt like I was going backwards.  Then, a few months later, I had to do some running just to get my heart rate up to the threshold.  It works just like Ernesto and the book said!  Wish everything in life was that way.

Ernesto,

What is your bib number for the race this weekend?

Also, I saw the settings for the Garmin for the bike.  What are the settings for the run?

My bib will be 1513 and the progress can be tracked at www.ironmanlive.com

As far as the settings for the run:

Top left Time elapsed, top right AVERAGE pace, bottom left distance and bottom right heart rate.

I've been looking at your log and comparing notes, the progress is obvious but as soon as the school year is over you need to start ramping up mileage.

Ernesto,

Funny to you! You had the :59 and I had the :01!  But actually, we aren't identical.  If Dec 5, 2010 is your PR, that's 1:02 better than mine, not :02.  So there's something for me to strive for.  

And as for Garmin running settings, I have exactly what you recommend to Jackie with one exception. That is, I have elapsed time (upper left), total distance (bottom left) and heart rate (bottom right), but on the upper right I have LAP pace instead of AVERAGE pace (where my lap is set to automatically be a mile).   Lap pace is pretty inaccurate for about the first 30 seconds, but after that it is pretty accurate and I find having the lap pace there gives me something to do - try to get this 1 mile to be what I set out for it to be.  

I'm curious.  Why do you prefer average pace?

caint believe how cold the water is in MAY! back to swimming inside in may in nw florida!

any friends on facebook [email protected].  Whats your first mile time off the bike?? mine is terrible 10 min  then gets better from there.

<Knee Update>

So, approx. 1 week ago I tried to run and within 1/2 mile felt pain so I stoped and walked home - boy that sucked.  Did a bunch of research and am guessing that I have Patella Tendinitis.  I recognize self-diagnosis is not an exact science.  I ran later last week pushing my 15 month old in our jogging stroller - and felt pretty good.  Couple instances of pain but I am beginning to focus on stride and notice heel striking exacerbates the problem while stiking mid to for foot feels fine.  I didn't do any runs over the weekend as much as it killed me not to.  I ran 5 miles this morning and felt no pain while running.  A bit of soreness near the end and its a bit sore right now.  My pace was fater than it should have been - but after not running for while it just felt good to run.  My HR was definitely elevated over where it should have been - I am unsure if that is due to no real cardio for a couple weeks or something else.  Tomorrow I have a 45 min tempo run schedule - I am inclinded to not push the pace much more than 8:00 mile (normally would get to 10-k pace of about 7:45.

I ordered a Patella Strap - if anyone has experience with these please chime in.

For the record, I don't think you're nuts!    And to be clear, I'm eager to get progress, I'm just using speed as an indicator.  If I need to slow down to speed up, I can do that.  It's the old typing analogy: You can type fast with 2 fingers, but if you slow down and learn to type with all 10 fingers, you'll achieve a greater success.  I looked for the book a couple of weeks ago, but it wasn't in the nearby bookstore.  I'll find it, though and start working through it.

One thing, though.  On what are you basing your assertion that I lack an aerobic base?  I'm not arguing the point, but the HR info I gave was only one 2 mile sprint, which you would expect to be anaerobic, right?  I've been running for almost two years, and it sure seems like that's long enough to have an aerobic base from which to build speed.

No disrespect O great Ernesto-san, I'm just a skeptic by trade and I question everything! 

Mike

If you had an aerobic base your heart rates wouldn't be as high. The bigger your aerobic engine, the tighter the span between aerobic and anaerobic.

Mike - Have you completed a Lactate threshold (LT) test for running?  I think part of the issue anyone would have looking at the HR zones you posted is that there is no explanation of how they were derived.  Is that 100% of LT or 100% of max HR?  How was either number arrived at and what does resting HR or max HR have to do with any of it.  To me, the key is understanding (within a smallish range) what my LT HR is for running and train accordingly (which I admit I don't do a good job of).  My understanding is that over time your LT threshold should migrate higher indicating that you would be able to run the same pace at a lower HR or alternatively a faster pace for a longer period of time.

I think Ernesto is correct that we can all benefit from focusing on longer, more sustained efforts (translated to me as I have to run slower to run longer and also run easier so I can repeat tomorrow and /or the next day).  I do not believe he is saying no speedwaork or tempo work.  If you look at the Higdon training plans for running events - usually 5 days of running, consisting of 3 easy runs of lesser to medium distance, 1 day of tempo or speedwork and one long run.  (Some weeks have two days of the five at faster tempos.)  All in all, between 20% and 30% of any week is fast tempo and the rest is pretty easy.

What I have found out of pure stubborness, is that if I ignore my training guidelines and run hard when I should be running easy, the next day I can't effectively meet my training plan goals.  Additionally, you then open yourself up for injury.  By running easy you are able to maintain the consistency you need to continualy build your base (physically and aerobically) while at the same time improving your anaerobic fitness with targeted speedwork.

ok, so last week I was totally surprised when I read Chris race laps, Nice job, and I noticed that Im not even close to those numbers, not even in my tempo runs, so yesterday I decided to step it ut in the tempos and intervals, my question is,

Is there an increase limit per week or day as to speed, distance, time or HR that I can do as Tempo or Intervals? 

Also I notice that in the weekend I would gain 2 to 3 lbs, and by tuesday, I'll be back to normal, any ideas on why?  btw, I dont pig out

No, man I don't even know what that is.  I got the zones because last January I signed up for a mentor group and the guy there told us to go to this website and get some HR zones.  You can see the thread (all 5 pages of it) here: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=237068&start=21

Before I could find out what to do with the zones, the mentor stopped responding and the group dissolved.  Then I found another mentor group that was long on "atta-boy" support, but short on technical knowledge (though that's where I learned there were such things as 'intervals').  So here I am, four months later in my third group only now learning that I should have been focusing on something else this whole time.  Ugh.  That's OK.  It took a few tries, but I think I have the right path now.

I went out at lunch and got Maffetone's book.  Yes, I know endurance training is measured in years, but at 42, I don't want to waste any more time doing something that doesn't help me improve.  I took the long way around, but hey, if I wanted something easy I picked the wrong sport, eh?  I will immerse myself in expanding my aerobic base and my knowledge base.

I look forward to sharing the results with you guys.

Thanks,

Mike

Who knows the link to the infamous HR rate thread at BT..i think mike ricci started.  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?  You need to find that link and read at least the first umpteen pages (it's a long thread...)