Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED (Page 145)

JOHANNE

I'm back.......so you must be back, too!

Did you have a good time watching Vineman, and reliving those thrilling days of your own not so long ago? I'll bet!

Two things that feel smugly good:
(1) To do a shorter event on the same day and at the same venue as people who are doing a longer event. The best example I have experienced of this is at Tupper Lake, NY, where a sprint/oly "hybrid" starts just before the half-iron event. So, as we are finishing our bike leg, most of the HIM folks are barely into theirs, and as they are still returning from their own bike leg.....we are heading home!
(2) To do a tough, long event one year, and then return to the site some following year. You know the suffering you did, and this year it's THEIR turn to do it. Hahahahahahahahaha!

GEORGE -

Very nice ride, and nothing lost in not fitting in the run afterward. Although, nothing lost in running out of fluids, either. Those events, in moderation, serve a purpose in telling you what your needs and limits are, and also work towards conditioning you to carry on without fluids or nutrition. You don't want to make a habit of it, but now you know that 39 miles might likely require a bit more than 48oz of fluids. FWIW, 48oz is about what I would expect to work through in 40 miles. Or, at least, that is what I would start with.

As for negative splits, I said this somewhere recently but will repeat it again in case you missed it. There are two basic approaches to them: (1) make the concerted effort to speed up in the second half, and (2) pace yourself conservatively in the first half, and then settle into your race-pace, or a slightly faster pace, as the session progresses.

If I remember what JOHANNE said, it was that the last couple of plits were more in keeping with her current run times, so it seems as if the first couple reflected a conservative start. For most people new to this stuff, the second approach is most sensible, as pacing is key AND it is easy to misjudge what will happen when the effort is made to speed up.....and there ain't enough in the tank to carry one through!

The first approach works best for experienced people who have a real good idea of what their bodies can tolerate when put under pressure at the tail-end of an event. But even then, accidents can happen and people can "blow up" --- which is a fairly awful way to finish a race (or a training session). In fact, I just did a brick in which my first half of an out-and-back 5km off the bike was not quite what I wanted it to be.....and I picked up the pace quite a bit on the return.....and managed to neg-split it, but felt crappy for a few minutes after finishing.

But all of this is worthwhile playing around with, just by way of getting more closely acquantied with your thresholds and limitataions. And, of course, over time these will change --- and that's always fun to watch evolve, too!

JEFF -

Necessity is the mother of invention, and you invented a great way to avoid the chip seal and the un-shade, and even manage to hydrate better than expected. Nicely-played!

As for "no point" in your other post, I disagree. You managed to vent a bit by way of contemplating your situation, all while putting it into perspective vis-a-vis Branson. That got your wheels turning, and led to the shaded loop solution.

See? Aren't we useful here as a sounding board? Just one of those services we provide!!

ELLEN -

Interesting what you say about the compulsive coach, and he's not the first person I know of who take their indoor riding extremely seriously. In the days I had a CompuTrainer (AND rollers AND a fluid trainer), I often felt slack with those other two becasue I knew what info was being generated by the CT. But I kept coming back to the thought that I was never ready to make full use of that data, other than to improve it from session to session.

It can be a slippery slope with that stuff, with the next lepa being into stuff like a Power Meter. Well, that would be another $1200 or so, and then there is the software for it and different calibration gizmos and god knows what else........and here I am, technologically-challenged as it is, and that was just all way too much for me.

I last rode the CT in about '08, and then at Columbia '10 I loaned-it-to-sell to a good friend from my first mentor group, and she finally actually bought it from me just before IMLakePlacid last week ---- at which she qualified for Kona! But she is young (30) and really smart and tech-savvy and has an enormous upside (as does her husband), so it should pay big dividends for them. And I fully expect they will end up Power Meters, too!

I guess in geneal I want things bad enough to train hard for them, but never to the point of finding it too techno-anal to enjoy anymore. In a way, that is a limited for me, but so be it. There ar ecomfort zones to stray from and comfort zones to nebver budge from, and all the high-tech stuff falls clearly into the latter category for me.

Other thought -- even with my rollers, where it is easy to see miles and pace, i never look at that with an eye towards how it might compare with an actual ride. I guess I just do those roller rides to stretch my legs and work on bike-handling skills, really just by way of staying upright with nothing to hold me up beyond momentum and a firm-but-calm grip!

The hip is okay enough to allow me to do sub-hour rides to no ill effect, and some hour-plus rides fsairly comfortably, too. I have done two bricks in the past few days, each with a 26km ride and the first with a 4km run and today with a 5km run off the bike. 26km/5km reflect the bike/run part of West Point in 13 days.....and maybe also Fronhofer Tool sprint this coming Saturday. Of course, a kinda long car ride for both isn't factored into thsoe bricks, but as they stand alone they suggest that I will have little trouble doing those races pain-free. So, I guess that's good, and I'm forging ahead with plans -- definitely for WP, and hopefully also FT.

My sports doc should be back from vacation, so I will phone him tomorrow to see what he thinks about another cortisone shot, or maybe the higher-priced alternative injection. And then next Monday my injection guy will be back from his vaca, so I might have some answers (or approaches) before too long. I don't know why sports doictors feel compeeled to go away during triathlon season. Sheesh!

How was the volunteering.....and the open water swim??

GENE -

Great race, and also -- great to have you back here! I envy you the venue of that race, which just reminds me again that I maybe shouldn't be so idle about thinking about moving back to the west. God's Half-Acre (and that coming from an agnostic! ).

I will look at the Higdon plan later and get back to you, but just at the outset here I can say that Higdon does wonderful things in most of his plans. Some people end up finding them too easy, maybe, but mostly there are enough options available to find one that suits your goals and experience and available training time. But I will look at it by this evening, anyhow.

Congrats again on Ellensburg!

GENE again --

Any idea why your breathing as completely controlled during Ellensburg? That must be an enormous monkey to get off your back, and if you have an idea of what worked well, then you can likely keep the monkey from ever hopping back on. WHEW!!!!!!

That's a good question.  I did the same race last summer so i had a good idea of how things would go hence lower anxiety.  The other thing I notice is that my race swim times are considerably faster than my pool times, I've got to get better at dialing back the pace a bit.   I suppose I could figure out splits and check my pacing at 25%, 50%, and 75% completion.  

GENE -

Coupla things!

1. -- Maybe the familiarity with the course helped with the breathing -- just one less thing to get secretly stressed about; those stressors can be insidious at times! Or, you're just mostly past that phase of your tri racing, which of course is the more preferable option. Your current schedule doesn't have another tri coming up that would test that, so you'll just have to wait a while for confirmation (or find another tri!).

2. -- The schedule looks great, with the only possible concern being timing. Counting back from 9-25 and Scenic, you'd be in the fifth week of the plan, and the question is simple -- are you there in your training? This doesn't have to be exact, but I guess the key is whether or not you have a 5m run under your belt somewhere in the not-too-distant past. Week Five has you hitting a 6-miler on Sunday, so hopefully you'll be prepped enough already to just jump in and do that one. If not, Week Six ends with the proposed 5km race, so you could just bag that in favor of fitting in the 6-miler in its place, and then finish this curent wek with a 5-miler.

All that said, these plans don't have to be seen as carved in stone, and if you asked any 50 certified running coaches to generate a 12-week training plan for a first-time half-marathon, you'd have 50 different plans. And, in fact, Higdon's comments underneath the plan-grid allows for a fair bit of wiggle-room, so you can feel free to improvise some. The only possible drawback to doing 5m this Sunday, followed by 6m instead of the 5km race, followed by 7m followed by 8m, is that it doesn't allow your body time to settle into the demands it might face in ramping up like that. But all of this is moot if you are at the 5m place now, so I'll shut up aboutit!

From your perspective, are you comfortable having a long run that is still 3.1 miles short of the 13.1 on race day? Some people are, some aren't, and it's useful to think about how likely it is that you will be real worried showing up on race day with "only" 10 miles under your belt? I am a big fan of under-training slightly, recognizing that race-day adrenaline can make up a fair bit of terra incognita, but I'll just repeat what I said above -- for some people it's fine,for others it's just too stressful to worry about whether they can actually do the required race distance.

If you worry about it, then look around for a plan that might be more aggressive -- especially if you are at the 5-mile place already. And if you are even beyond that -- say, seven miles -- then you could probably bump each of the remaining Sunday distances up a mile to get you at 11m for your Sept 18 long run. Let me know where you're at now, and how you feel about a 10-miler as the long run of the training plan.

You are very fortunate to be a triathlete, because that makes the M and W and Sa plans much easier to follow -- just swim or bike or stretch! But for further refinements, I strongly recommend pull-buoy swim sessions, or if you're doing open water in a wetsuit, do them with minimal kicking. In either case, those will be great upper-body workouts, which is very useful for longer runs. That is a hidden problem for some runners "going long" -- their shoulders/deltoids/triceps/biceps get real tired. When this happens, form can fall apart in a hurry, and this exacerbates whatever is happening to the mechanics below the waist. So, working on arm strength could prove a real boon at Scenic, and a great way to do this is using a pull-buoy in the pool, or swimming kickless in your wetsuit.

I have told George about some photos of me at a half-iron last August, but haven't led him to them yet. maybe I should do that as an object-lesson for you, too, as they show what happens to form whne one (that would be me) is taxed. In my run ones, my head is down -- as are my arms. This was the leaving too much of myself on the bike course, inadequately fueled, and then running a hilly course on a hot day. My form is hardly pretty, and in fact I have seen that in many, mnay race photos over the years -- arms dropped towards the end of the race. Not good!

Monday would be the best time for kickless swims, as your body will love you for not requiring the legs to do anything beyond dragging along behind you. And, residually, you'll just enjoy being in water after doing a long run the day before ---- win/win!

Seems like there was something else...........but can't remember it now. Maybe later??

GEORGE -

Nice rides! And don't dismiss the idea that the PR might be unassailable for a while. Sometimes when a plateau is traversed, standards can continue to tumble. Admittedly, that hasn't happened to me too many times in my "career", but it can and does happen. You might even want to be frisky and try to better it asap, jst to see what happens. Think of it like a fighter who softens the opponent up with body shots before landing the knockout blow. You softened that route with yesterday's ride, and now while it's reeling -- hit it with your best shot!

Really, you have nothing to lose. At best, you get a new PR. At worst, you still have an impressive PR that is 2:38 better than the previous one, and that type of improvement is massive, and you realistically can't be expected to top it......but what if you can?? It's kind of like David and Goliath, pulling off the big upset!

Or, you can just sit there and trest on your laurels for a while -- absolutely nothing wrong at all with that approach.

I'm just rantin' and ravin' here, but really -- great ride, mighty fine new PR. AND, good long ride, too, which only serves to make the PR better -- not much rebound time from doing 53 miles before knocking off the fast 16.4m PR on a hilly route. I genuflect in your general direction!!

JEFF -

Yeah, fresh chip seal sucks....but I'd just like SOME attention paid to my go-to-from-home bike route. Over a month ago about 2km were stripped in pep for paving, and it is still sitting threre, stroipped and not suitable for my bike. Our township does it's paving projects that way, whereas the township south of us get to the actual paving part quite soon after the stripping part. So, all of my rides over the past six weeks or so have been drive-to ones, which at least gets me to a place where there is slightly better topography nd the roads have decent shoulders. So, maybe I ought to just quit complaining and count my blessings that I'm being forced to drive to nicer rides!

What's up Gang!

Just checking in for the week. Typical week for me with training. Knocked out a 1hr25min on the bike monday morning (intervels), 4mi run yesterday morning and 2000yd swim last night and taking tonight off to let my wife have some "Girl Time". Then back into it Thu-Sun. I had to swing by the LBS today to pick up a screw/shim that fell out of my cleat while I was riding. Not sure how it happened, but I guess I need to double check the tightness from now on so I don't lose anymore...luckily he had some extras laying around so there was no charge!

Also the 52 Felt B16 has arrived and they are currently in the process of putting it together so looks like I'll be test riding again Saturday and who knows...I may be coming home with a new addition to the familly!!!

Hope all is well with everyone! 100* here today, but I'm sure it is still cooler than TX!!!! Everything is bigger in TX....even the temp!
David

The water temperature at Lake Texoma is a record 90 degrees and expected to go higher.

GENE -

You're in great shape for jumping into that plan, then, and it ought to suit you really well. Perfect!

Not so perfect is my knowledge of adjusting tension on Speedplays, which apparanetly do not have the tidy screw that even I can work on my Look pedals. My big book by Lennard Zinn, only says that exceptions to the adjustment screw are on Bebop, Diadora, Power, Time.....and Speedplay. Probably JEFF will know, or failing that, a phone call to Sppedplay or any decent LBS.

I hope you get that solved, as a loose cleat is a big bother. I have had two races in which as I have dismounted, one of the cleats has come off the pedal. So much for gaining time by getting out of the cleats early and then doing a modified "flying dismount", as in those instances I had to go back and fetch the dropped cleat. Grrrr!