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2010-02-25 7:10 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I'm going to take the plunge here. Obviously swimming is my biggest challenge. I've taken lessons at our Y which gave me the basics (we don't have a strong swim thing going on - no masters program and no swim director). I've taken a special class where they video tape your swimming stroke underwater so you can see what you're doing wrong. I've gotten a couple CDs on triathlon swimming. I haven't gotten a book yet, so I may have to look into the one Lewis mentioned. BUT....I get it, I see it so then I drive 10 minutes to the pool and I CAN'T do it. I guess I'm a visual learner and I think I need a laptop right at my lane, so I can pop in the CD, watch the pro demo the drill then take off and do it. I'm just a failure at swimming and instead of swimming faster, I'm getting slower. I did my first tri using the breaststroke and my time three years later using freestyle was the SAME. I've changed things up so much based on all these different help resources that I'm stiff and stressed in the pool. HELP!! I want to conquer this thing called swimming and I WILL conquer it but with 1.2 miles looming in July's HIM, I'm stressing myself out. Thanks for any thoughts or helpful hints you can give.


2010-02-25 7:21 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Congratulations on your commitment.   It shines through.  But, relax.  The harder and more stressed you try to do the right form, the farther off you get.  The goal is NOT to struggle in the water, but be slippery like a fish.  Ease through it. 

My coach's best advice to me that has been echoed in books and on videos is to train S-L-O-W.  Get the form right first.  Put it together piece by piece.  And THEN go faster.  As you do, your slow practice will let you feel what's off.

Swimming is cool.  All our sports are.  But swimming maybe more than the others is based so much on form.   Reach out, turn from side to side thinking of your belly button as a third eye looking from one side of the pool to the other, kick enough to help your body stay flat on the surface and not drag. 

I was at a 2 min pace, then started learning the total immersion form from DVDs, youtube, the book TI for Triathletes and from picking the masters' coaches brain.  Then my time fell to 2:15.  I couldn't let it bother me.  Slow, slow practice and patience and now I'm swimming faster and easier than before.  I'm focusing on reducing drag rather than increasing power.  Also, I feel myself swimming from the hips and engaging my core more to propel myself rather than pulling with my arms, which causes injuries and really gets me no where because I'm plowing through the water rather than slicing through it.

This stuff is fun, isn't it?  Learning the forms for swimming, biking and running then spending the rest of our lives fine tuning it.  Great way to live.




Edited by IceManScott 2010-02-25 7:36 AM
2010-02-25 7:24 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

bswcpa - 2010-02-25 8:10 AM I'm going to take the plunge here. Obviously swimming is my biggest challenge. I've taken lessons at our Y which gave me the basics (we don't have a strong swim thing going on - no masters program and no swim director). I've taken a special class where they video tape your swimming stroke underwater so you can see what you're doing wrong. I've gotten a couple CDs on triathlon swimming. I haven't gotten a book yet, so I may have to look into the one Lewis mentioned. BUT....I get it, I see it so then I drive 10 minutes to the pool and I CAN'T do it. I guess I'm a visual learner and I think I need a laptop right at my lane, so I can pop in the CD, watch the pro demo the drill then take off and do it. I'm just a failure at swimming and instead of swimming faster, I'm getting slower. I did my first tri using the breaststroke and my time three years later using freestyle was the SAME. I've changed things up so much based on all these different help resources that I'm stiff and stressed in the pool. HELP!! I want to conquer this thing called swimming and I WILL conquer it but with 1.2 miles looming in July's HIM, I'm stressing myself out. Thanks for any thoughts or helpful hints you can give.

The easiest advice I can give you is to relax!  Swimming, for those of us who don't come from a swimming background, is nerve racking and that is counter to smooth swimming.  The next this is to think long and lean.  Slow down your stroke and focus on making yourself long in the water.  Finally, before worrying about distance and endurance, lets get some work on your stroke.  The book Lewis mentioned or any TI book has some basic drills that you should work on when swimming.  Most of them work on body balance in the water, but some are also for stroke mechanics.  Get yourself a pull bouy to help with some of the stroke drills.  If you don't find the drills, I will try and find a link for them.

Challenge yourself for the next month to spend at least half of your time in the water doing drills.  Just swimming will get you to your goal of finishing the 1.2, but lets work on doing that and having a little left for the bike!  

2010-02-25 7:25 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

IceManScott - 2010-02-25 8:21 AM Congratulations on your commitment.   It shines through.  But, relax.  The harder and more stressed you try to do the right form, the farther off you get.  The goal is NOT to struggle in the water, but be slippery like a fish.  Ease through it. 

My coach's best advice to me that has been echoed in books and on videos is to train S-L-O-W.  Get the form right first.  Put it together piece by piece.  And THEN go faster.  As you do, you're slow practice will let you feel what's off.

Swimming is cool.  A our sports are.  But swimming maybe more than the others is based so much on form.   Reach out, turn from side to side thinking of your belly button as a third eye looking from one side of the pool to the other, kick enough to help your body stay flat on the surface and not drag. 

I was at a 2 min pace, then started learning the total immersion form from DVDs, youtube, the book TI for Triathletes and from picking the masters' coaches brain.  Then my time fell to 2:15.  I couldn't let it bother me.  Slow, slow practice and patience and now I'm swimming faster and easier than before.  I'm focusing on reducing drag rather than increasing power.  Also, I feel myself swimming from the hips and engaging my core more to propel myself rather than pulling with my arms, which causes injuries and really gets me no where because I'm plowing through the water rather than slicing through it.

This stuff is fun, isn't it?  Learning the forms for summing, biking and running then spending the rest of our lives fine tuning it.  Great way to live.


 

Good post Iceman!

2010-02-25 7:26 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I'm printing out your reply, Iceman. Thanks - I need to be reminded to keep it slow and keep learning. That's a life lesson!
2010-02-25 7:33 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Thanks, Ken. Tomorrow I'll solely work on drills and I WILL relax and go slow. I will, I will.


2010-02-25 7:38 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I'm a writer and my first draft of anything sucks.  I edited the above.  Probably still didn't get it all.  More coffee please...
2010-02-26 2:14 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Whats everyone got planned this weekend?  Due to vacation travels, I am limited to the run for the weekend! 

Have a great weekend everyone! 

2010-02-26 2:31 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Two bikes, Sat. hard progressive LTs, Sunday 2 hour tempo;  run on Saturday after the bike, coach says 5K, but probably 5 miles if I have the time. 
2010-02-26 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Thanks for asking, Ken. Where does one go on vacation from NY this time of year? Hope it's fun.

I had a great SLOW swim in the pool today doing drills. I went at an off-hour so I had the pool to myself which helped me relax. Took the good advice I heard yesterday and felt positive. Good stuff. Did a 30 mile ride on the bike trainer yesterday so this weekend is a treadmill run and a day of rest since it's my hubby and I's 28th year wedding anniversary.

Excuse my ignorance, Scott, but what's "LTs" stand for?
2010-02-26 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Welcome to the group Brenda

Happy to be training!



2010-02-26 9:50 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Lactate thresholds.  It focuses on that spot where your breathing turns from deep breathing to short panting...aerobic to anaerobic.  The goal is to do high power output for prescribed periods and to boost your LT over time.  The higher you can get your LT, the longer you can go more power output for endurance.

In this case, it is progressive LTs.  I go to 90% of my functional threshold power for 10 mins, then take 5 mins recovery at half my FTP...then another 10 mins at 95%, 5 off, 10 mins at 100%, 5 off and then 10 mins at 105%.  Cadence is kept high, above 90 to 100 if I can, and now I can.  Couldn't at the beginning a year ago. 

You can do this with a heart rate monitor too.  Figure it based on max HR.  Or even on Rate of Perceived Exertion. RPE.  How hard am I working on a scale of 1 (easy) to 10 (really hard to the point that I can't do I for more than a minute or 2)   5 is hard, 7 is very hard, etc.   Then do 5, 6, 7 and 8 or 6, 7, 8 and 9.  Start with 3 mins or 5 mins if you can and gradually increase over the weeks to come. 

SEs are low cadence high power intervals.  Same idea but grinding at 50-60 rpms for a fixed interval, take a break, then do another, take a break and do another.  Do these at like 6 or 7.  They call these "weight-lifting on a bike" because they exercise cycling specific muscles like nothing else can.

A third kind are POPs, which are very short intense bursts like you were sprinting to a finish line...1 minute at 120%, 1 min off, 1 min on, one min off...   I usually get assigned to do 5 to 10 of these, then take a break and do 5 or 10 more.   They help increase my FTP, too, but in a much shorter, intense time frame.  You can do these on the road easily by saying to yourself, I'll race to the next crossroad, or to the next mail ox or everything I see a tractor or a green car or something.   You get the idea.

Read up on this stuff a little before you try it.  And, DO NOT do them on back to back days.  I do intense bike workouts Tues, Thurs and Saturday and then on Sunday I do a longer low output ride.  Don't overdo.  You can overtrain or cause injuries.  One thing is for sure.  Just riding a bike farther will not make you faster or stronger.

The same interval concepts can be applied to running and swimming.  Vary the speed, the work output, to make yourself strong and faster in less time.  Olympics have used the ideas for years.  I think the Russians came up with the idea first. 


 





 
2010-02-27 7:42 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Welcome Brenda!

Lewis - I'm right there with working through the TI book. Looks like we can all learn a lot from each other and the awesome tips from Ken and IceMan. I'm sure I'll have some more questions after tomorrow's pool day. For today I'm going to figure up my MHR running based on the article Ken recommended a while back. I did my cycling MHR on Thursday. Between finding those and IceMan's latest post I'm really excited to start getting even more out of my workouts. Lately I've been on a plateau and just trying to get my times. Now I have more of a direction and I'm really excited. Thanks everyone!

Ice Man - Thank you very much for that last post about bicycle training. That was exactly the info I've been starting to search around to find (not to mention trying to make sense out of what information I did find). You laid everything out perfectly! I'll be printing that post.
2010-02-27 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Great explanation of LT and your bike workouts Iceman!  One of my main goals for 2010 is improving my results during the bike segment (which should improve my run performance!). Having you in our group has been an outstanding learning experience for me!

One thing I think Scott would agree, if you haven't been on the bike much, build up to these types of workouts carefully to avoid getting hurt (or discouraged). 

2010-02-27 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Thanks for the kind words. I'm learning a lot from you guys about running and swimming.  It's all good.

YES, go slow!  As for direction on training, have you folks used the Triathlete's Bible?  It's a MUST!   Also, Going Long. 

Also, remember, I have a biking coach who integrates my swimming and running into the weekly program.  I am passing on only the barest of things.  If I were you guys, I would rely on the training plans in Triathlete's Bible, free training plans here or upgrade your membership so you get access to others.  The plans are to make your training time so much more efficient.  Check out TrainingPeaks.com.  They have free stuff too, though it is also partly a pay site like here.

One thing I've learned from all this, the coaches on the bike and Masters, the amateur but very informed help at the running club, the books - the plans are set down for reasons - to help you make the most of your time and to avoid injury and down time at all costs.   

Also, the mental game is key - staying positive and happy.  This is all about fun.  I don't plan on making any money at this.  I just am trying to do my best to send messages to cancer survivors and former fat folks - they can get well and thrive despite their diseases and in some respects because of them. 

Going to the dungeon - er the man cave, the basement to do the LTs, then a run.  Have a great Saturday!


2010-02-27 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

IceManScott - 2010-02-27 9:45 AM
Thanks for the kind words. I'm learning a lot from you guys about running and swimming.  It's all good.

YES, go slow!  As for direction on training, have you folks used the Triathlete's Bible?  It's a MUST!   Also, Going Long. 

Also, remember, I have a biking coach who integrates my swimming and running into the weekly program.  I am passing on only the barest of things.  If I were you guys, I would rely on the training plans in Triathlete's Bible, free training plans here or upgrade your membership so you get access to others.  The plans are to make your training time so much more efficient.  Check out TrainingPeaks.com.  They have free stuff too, though it is also partly a pay site like here.

One thing I've learned from all this, the coaches on the bike and Masters, the amateur but very informed help at the running club, the books - the plans are set down for reasons - to help you make the most of your time and to avoid injury and down time at all costs.   

Also, the mental game is key - staying positive and happy.  This is all about fun.  I don't plan on making any money at this.  I just am trying to do my best to send messages to cancer survivors and former fat folks - they can get well and thrive despite their diseases and in some respects because of them. 

Going to the dungeon - er the man cave, the basement to do the LTs, then a run.  Have a great Saturday!


Key statement! It is all about fun!!!



2010-02-28 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Just an update on swimming (again!). I read on in the TI book and as it said not to get too hooked up on the basic balance skills i thought i'd try the 'swim taller' front quadrant swimming drills. After looking at the book and seeing a still picture of a swimmer with his lead hand still out front as the recovering hand was just about to enter the water it struck me that this is what 'swimming taller' was about - and the text confirmed that. So without moving on to the specific drills i thought i'd try it!

Wow!

By leaving the leading hand in place until the other hand was entering the water, the pull and core rotation timing was perfect and i could feel much more movement through the water (from the core rotation of the body) and an easier moment for taking a breath! It was an amazing feeling. I did notice a huge imbalance though in the non-breathing side - when i would take a breath it was hard/near impossible to leave the leading hand out waiting for my recovering hand - so i was quite literally doing it one sided! On side change (with breathing) the same thing happened so that's obviously something i'm going to need to work on.

However, it completely tired me out and threw my existing rhythm so i feel like i'm almost back at square 2! I did cut my session short this morning because of it!

So, still lots of work ahead of me! TI is great! I'm not really one for liking drills, i find them tedious (but i do understand their need and use) but boy i'm going to hang in here!!!

Lewis.

Edited by lbishop 2010-03-01 1:41 AM
2010-03-01 3:19 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

lbishop - 2010-02-28 3:52 PM Just an update on swimming (again!). I read on in the TI book and as it said not to get too hooked up on the basic balance skills i thought i'd try the 'swim taller' front quadrant swimming drills. After looking at the book and seeing a still picture of a swimmer with his lead hand still out front as the recovering hand was just about to enter the water it struck me that this is what 'swimming taller' was about - and the text confirmed that. So without moving on to the specific drills i thought i'd try it!

Wow!

By leaving the leading hand in place until the other hand was entering the water, the pull and core rotation timing was perfect and i could feel much more movement through the water (from the core rotation of the body) and an easier moment for taking a breath! It was an amazing feeling. I did notice a huge imbalance though in the non-breathing side - when i would take a breath it was hard/near impossible to leave the leading hand out waiting for my recovering hand - so i was quite literally doing it one sided! On side change (with breathing) the same thing happened so that's obviously something i'm going to need to work on.

However, it completely tired me out and threw my existing rhythm so i feel like i'm almost back at square 2! I did cut my session short this morning because of it!

So, still lots of work ahead of me! TI is great! I'm not really one for liking drills, i find them tedious (but i do understand their need and use) but boy i'm going to hang in here!!!

Lewis.

I struggle with this same thing Lewis, I try and do the catch up drill as part of my regular routine and can do it quite well with the pull buoy.  My timing isn't quite as good with out the buoy, but I think the more I do the drill, the better I get.  It is the same stroke (breathing) that I tend to get the sinking feeling and compensate by stroking early.

Good luck and stick with it, you will figure it out!

2010-03-02 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Do a happy dance with me - I ran OUTSIDE this morning! It was only 33 but the sun was shining and I smelled Spring in the air. I'm sure I looked crazy 'cause I was grinning from ear to ear and singing out loud. No matter, it's been over 3 months since I felt the freedom of being outside so I enjoyed it greatly. Happy, happy. I definitely trained happy today.

Not so much yesterday, though, in the pool. I'm still heeding your advice of going slow and just doing drill work. I'd worked on swimming taller like Lewis described but I just wasn't feeling it. I felt things click on Friday but lost it yesterday. Heading back to the pool tomorrow to see if the water and I can work together. Keeping it slow and relaxed is what I have to do.

I spent time going through all 19 pages of your posts so I'd get more familiar on who's part of this group. There's a lot of abbreviations I'm not sure what they stand for, but I'll ask about them as they come up. Thanks for the explanation of "LT", Scott. I so appreciate the stuff I'm learning from everyone, so thanks!

Hope you all have a good workout today even if you're still stuck inside. Hope you all have a good day regardless if you get to workout or not.
2010-03-02 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

bswcpa - 2010-03-02 1:48 PM Do a happy dance with me - I ran OUTSIDE this morning! It was only 33 but the sun was shining and I smelled Spring in the air. I'm sure I looked crazy 'cause I was grinning from ear to ear and singing out loud. No matter, it's been over 3 months since I felt the freedom of being outside so I enjoyed it greatly. Happy, happy. I definitely trained happy today. Not so much yesterday, though, in the pool. I'm still heeding your advice of going slow and just doing drill work. I'd worked on swimming taller like Lewis described but I just wasn't feeling it. I felt things click on Friday but lost it yesterday. Heading back to the pool tomorrow to see if the water and I can work together. Keeping it slow and relaxed is what I have to do. I spent time going through all 19 pages of your posts so I'd get more familiar on who's part of this group. There's a lot of abbreviations I'm not sure what they stand for, but I'll ask about them as they come up. Thanks for the explanation of "LT", Scott. I so appreciate the stuff I'm learning from everyone, so thanks! Hope you all have a good workout today even if you're still stuck inside. Hope you all have a good day regardless if you get to workout or not.

Great for you getting outside!  It is warming up here (in the mid to upper 30's during the day!)  Hopefully we can get some decent snow melt so it isn't unsafe to run outside fighting the cars for space!!!

Stick with the drills and I am sure you will have good days and bad days until you develop good habits!  I have been adding a lot more swimming than I usually do and I will go as far as to say that some laps are good and some are bad.  I have a timex ironman watch that I hit the lap button every 100 yards to help keep track of distance and time.  When I look at the lap times I can tell when I lose focus. 

2010-03-02 1:44 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

I forgot to post my first of the month goal reminder!  How did we all do with our goals in February?  What goals are we adding or changing for March?

I missed my bike and run goals, mostly due to the last minute vacation but some because I over reached.  But the vacation bought me some great benefits with Mrs. kenj so when I need the training or racing time later on I have that going for me!   Took a huge jump forward in swim volume that I plan on continueing in March.  Although I am close to being able to swim the IM distance I feel since my A race is IM Florida and the swim is in the Gulf, I really need to be a stronger swimmer than I am for lake swims regardless of distance. 

That said, some of us are getting close to (or past) time to start training plans for specific races!  Do you have a plan?  Any questions on chosing a plan? 



2010-03-02 1:51 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I never missed a workout.  Was sick with a minor sore throat but it never stopped me. 

Bike workouts have been challenging all winter.  Even more so now after taking the last FTP test. But, the numbers have been doable.  Have had to focus.

Swmming is going good.  Trying to incorporate more  TI.  I have a clinic this weekend, I think.  Sent the money in, haven't heard a thing.  Have to contact her.

Running - I've started to boast things up here.  It is my greatest challenge.  The run club one-a-week program is underway and I'm in a group pushing me on time.  Also added a run yesterday so I should have three this week, including the first timed race (if I can fit it in before the swim clinic and after a ride.

Happy so far.
2010-03-02 3:22 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!

Great job Scott! I know you are very diligent in following your coaches plans!  Good for you!!!

Running, now there is a subject we haven't discussed much!  Anyone have any running questions, thoughts, issues?

2010-03-02 5:23 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
I finally made it outside for my first training session and it felt great! It was a little icy in areas but since I am starting out slow by doing a walk/run interval it worked out fine.  It felt great to feel the sun's warm rays on my faceCool. I work night shift so I haven't seen much of the sun all winter since I was usually sleeping. I decided to try a different sleeping pattern so I could get more daylight into my life, as well as working in a training plan that will work. So far, so good.Laughing

My March goals are very basic since it's been a while since I have done any training. I decided on doing 20 to 30 minutes of high intensity interval training 2X each a week of the bike, swim, and walk/run, increasing the intensity each week followed by some basic core and weight training. I will also be focusing on technique and absorbing all the ideas I have been learning from all of you so that when April comes I will be ready to focus on my next challenge.Wink
  Who knew that there would be so much to learn in activities that seem so straight forward. Ken you mentioned the running and I know that will be my toughest area to train for because I can't run for very long before I get out of breath so any advice would be great.
2010-03-03 2:48 PM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group - closed with a great bunch of triathletes in training!!!
Yay! I got outside today also, finally! I started off WAY too fast and spent the rest of my short run trying to calm everything down, but it was awesome. For March my goal is not miss any workouts! I missed 4 in Feb. My workouts are not long enough yet to even interfere with my schedule so there isn't any excuse, it has all been mental. I always forget that when I'm stressed or busy is when I really need and enjoy the workouts the most.
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