RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 15)

Scott --

Once again, your insights were invaluable.  Unfortunately, between your travel schedule and mine, I didn't actually see them until after I got back.

Pretty much everything you predicted came true.  The first time out,the waters were relatively calm, with little swell and a mild current.  Wore a shorty wetsuit, and felt like I was floating on air.  Not too many critters, and at times, the water was clear enough to actually see the bottom.  Sighting?  Major adjustment there.  Several times, I found myself veering somewhat.  I swam some "laps" between buoys, and used landmarks in the distance as sighting targets.  Trying to swim with my head up to sight took some getting used to, after breathing constantly to the side in the pool.

Second time out was a whole different story.  The current was stronger, the swells were bigger, and I felt like I was getting tossed around like a cork.  It was a real struggle.  In fact, it was somewhat disheartening.  It also convinced me to choose events with lake swims -- at least until I get stronger.  Which, judging by the second swim, at least, may be some time off in the future, unfortunately.

Keep the great advice coming, bro'!

Gary

A "1:03 IM split?"  Heck, I'd settle for not being the last guy out of the water in a sprint or Olympic distance event!

Gary

Hi, all --

So now that I'm picking up the training mileage some, and doing two workouts a day a number of times each week, I'm thinking it is time for a supplement, and specifically, something to aid in recovery in between workouts.  Any suggestions or recommendations from the more veteran triathletes among us?

Gary

Gary, I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of spending a lot of money on products geared towards "recovery".  For my longer workouts I pay particular attention to getting good quality "real food" into me within a half hour or so after finishing up.  Typically I will make a huge smoothie made of orange juice, tropical fruit salad, blueberries, strawberries (home grown myself of course!), a banana, couple of spoonfuls of yogurt, a scoop of whey protein powder, and then blend in a blender.  Getting adequate sleep is essential also.

I'll second what Jim said.  I recover slowly, it's actually very annoying, especially after a tough race because it takes my body a while to rebound.  Last year I started to take whey protein after long rides or runs.  I can't say tha it was specifically the protein, or just better overall fitness, but my body certainly "felt" like it recovered much faster, and I was ready to go the next day.  The cost of a scoop of protein is minimal, and therefore affordable on my budget.  I try to ensure that I buy a decent quality powder that also  includes some amino acids, etc. 

FWIW - I don't take vitamins (except when my wife forces them on me).

Hi all,

I’m trying to figure out how to get a faster average mph on the bike (lol…. aren’t we all !!) anyway, I’ve been doing Z2 rides since August, it started off as easy rides, now it’s starting to become hard work, my last long slow ride (100k) left the legs burning and haven’t seen an improvement in my
ave mph, it feels like I could be getting slower and weaker (ok I have spent less time on the bike through winter) but still, it shouldn’t feel like I’ve gone backwards?

I’d like to incorporate some high intensity trainer sessions and tried one last night but find it hard to level out in Z4, either I’m in Z2/3 or go anaerobic?  I know ill need to build up to be able to do these but: Is a good turbo training session for IM training, one with intervals to Z6 or Z4? And does anyone have a good trainer session i could hi-jack?  I’ve read so much in books & the net etc my head is spinning …

Thanks Gary.  Sorry to the group for not being around for the past several days.  Apparently I brought a pretty serious bug back from California with me.  Of course I knew I wasn't really sick because I'd had my flu shot.  Long story short, I got to spend a few days in the hospital because of my refusal to admit I was sick - thank goodness for a loving wife that was, once again, smarter than me.  Home now, gonna take a bit and try to get some strength back, look over the forum and try to pick up the pieces of what once was my training plan.

ok folks, my first question, and hope  you have some advice.

i have been following the 20 week tri olympic schedule on BT.  i have been increasing my time working out by 10% per week, and will have finished week 3 this comming weekend.  after that i should cut back by 40%.  then i get into week 5 and begin increasing again.  Here is the issue. week 5 of training i will be on vacation at a resort in punta cana (this is the first time in 20 years my wife and i have taken a winter vacation) and i think that would be a better week to ease off.  is it ok to increase my workouts in week 4 and then reduce in week 5?  am i making sense here?

any help is appreciated.

Unless you are feeling any fatigue from week 3, then I see no reason not to bump the workouts in week 4, and enjoy the vacation.

Hope you're feeling better Scott, don't try and rush anything - we all make that mistake in an attempt to gte back to training asap.

Couple of things, and I'm sure Jim can provide more insight.  First, you're going to go a little backwards if your bike volume has dropped off, but your intensity has remained the same.  That's normal.

Second - riding around in Z2 is not going to get you all the gains you want.  You need to be mixing up the effort level, even on long rides in some cases.  There is a simple, but painful truism to improving your power output (hence your speed) on the bike - you need to ride harder,a nd sometimes it's not fun.  It really is a case of time and effort, and the time can't be wasted by not making enough effort.  Nothing wrong with casual, enjoyable rides - but those are for recovery, or socializing, not really improving.  Many people would argue that the sweet spot for training is somewhere around 83-85% of the power you can maintain for an hour.  Guys can ride at this level for a long time, but they have put in a lot of work to be able to do that.

Jorge's old plan is a great one.  There are two versions, HR (the one I linked here) and power.  If you are going to use the HR version, be sure to use RPE for the shorter intervals, because it takes some time to get your HR into the recommended zones.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/training-plans-view.asp?planid=10920

thanks neil

as a fellow canuck, you will appreciate how tempting it is to get a little sunshine.....keep increasing untill i am in the warmer climate.

Hello everyone,

I am just starting into triathlons and would like to join your group. Room for me?

Name: Natalia

Family Status: single. Being a doctor takes up a lot of my time.

Current training: I was a high school cross country running, had too much fun in college, then got back to running 5K-10k in medical school and residency. I started tri training in November 2012. Now I workout 5-6 times a week. I've been biking 1-2 days/week, swimming 1-2 days/week and running 2-3 days/week.

This years races: ventura half marathon 2/24, SD ITU 4/20, Big Sur relay 4/28, Wildflower Tri 5/5, OC tri 5/19, Sd half marathon 6/2, Possibly Tahoe tri (1/2 ironman) 8/25, Pacific Tri 9/8, SD tri rock 9/22, LA half marathon 10/27. Yes I'm a planner it motivates me to acutally work out.

2012 races: Big sur marathon relay, a turkey tri sprint (my first), and sprint tri in SD.

weight loss: working out is my only method of weight loss. I try to eat healthy at work, but i have sweet tooth which messes me up at night. I know good nutrition but i'm bad at following.

Good mentor?: I am a doctor in physical medicine and rehabilitation so I know a lot about sports injuries, physical therapy, and how to get them better. I can help in some aspects in that way. Otherwise, triathlon training is new to me and I'd like to learn more. Its always better to learn from a wide range of people because everyone has their own opinion, and often there is not right or wrong way.

Welcome Natalie.  Sorry I've been MIA lately folks...bizzzzzzzzyyyy

I have a bit of experience with bands used both for swimming and for dry land stuff.  Not sure what your question is?  I am a fan of using bands together with paddles.  I can go into detail about that if you like.  Let me know.

Gonna offer a comment based on experience with respect to rapid and drastic weight loss.

Last year, when I started on my Ironman journey, the first order of business was to lose 100 pounds.  I started on the Atkins diet and a fairly intense workout schedule.  I was at about a 3,000-4,000 calorie deficit per day and I was losing roughly 8-12 pounds per week.  I knew the nutrition plan was not going to work long term, but I wanted the weight off NOW.  Next thing I knew I was in the emergency room in the worst pain of my life.  Ended up having an emergency gall bladder removal.  Here is the point - the doctors (note plural, as in several doctors) said the rapid weight loss was the cause of the gall bladder problem.

My take away was avoid the rapid weight loss.  Change your lifestyle and the weight will take care of itself in time.

Thanks Neil.  Yeah, with my wife watching over my every move, it is a pretty safe bet I won't be over doing it or rushing anything anytime soon.

And if you want to hear it directly from a doctor, it is not healthy to drastically lose weight. 1-2 lbs max/week should be your goal. (unless you're grossly overweight then its easier to lose it faster) If you lose it too fast, you are at risk of nutritional deficits which can cause a lot of problems.

Best way to see is use an online calorie counting tool. Count the calories you eat during the day and make sure to include how many calories you burn during your workouts (again, online calculators). If you are trying to lose weight, aim to have a slight negative balance on your calories, but this depends on your weight/height/age. Again, a lot of the online nutrition guides are good at this - counting your required calories, what you eat, what you work off, and how much off you should be for weight loss. Make sure to have a balanced diet, in good fats, vegetables, protein, and some form of carbs but avoid sugary/refined foods. As your workouts increase in intensity/amount, you should be increasing your intake in a parallel fashion.

Hey Mike,

I had different bands in mind, I thought you were referring to the bands you use to immobilize your feet while using paddles.  Opps, my bad.

My first thought is that if it were me, I would want to know how far I am swimming.  Most hotel/motel pools I have seen are not standard sizes or they are so small as to make swimming laps difficult or impossible.  As often as not, the pools I have seen are often not even rectangular making it difficult to do laps.  That said, I have a membership to LA Fitness.  That particular chain has gyms with pools in most major cities around the country.  Just a thought, that might be a better alternative than a hotel pool.

I think that "swimming in place" will have a serious negative impact on your stroke technique.  In my opinion, it will be impossible to properly execute your stroke without moving through the water.  Your entry will be incorrect, because you are not moving through the water, the catch will be wrong because your not moving through the water, your body roll will likely be incorrect and the pull and push of your stroke will likely be incorrect because you are not moving through the water.  Finally, your recovery will be forced because your body roll is incorrect and your not moving through the water.

As to the bands and what not.  Yes, I have seen them, in fact I use to have a couple devices called Exer-Genie that allowed you to simulate swimming strokes with varying degrees of resistance.  In my opinion they actually do more harm than good.  They do not allow you to accurately simulate a freestyle movement.  You can get more strength work with dumb-bells in your hotel room than you would get with the "swim simulators" that I have seen.  I have been a swimmer for over 40 years and I have a pretty good freestyle, but when I use one of the stroke simulators, whether with bands or some other form of resistance, my stroke technique goes out the window.  The swim leg for most of the triathletes I have meet is their weakest segment.  I would be very concerned about doing more harm than good by trying to simulate swimming on dry land.

My personal opinion is, stick to real swimming in a real pool.  If you can't find a real pool today, then maybe tomorrow will be better.  The potential negative impact in my opinion far outweighs any possible good that will come from trying to simulate swimming.

Just my humble two cents.

The first thing to understand is that the vast majority of novice and self-trained swimmers are swimming anaerobically during virtually all of their swim training sessions.  The next thing is that HR in a pool is going to be considerably different than running or cycling.  Using me as an example - my HR is generally around 150 when I run.  If my HR got up to 150 in the pool I would feel like I am suffocating.  What that loosely translates to is that your RPE in a pool is going to generally feel considerably higher.  I think the best way around that is to actually determine your HR in a pool, thereby using an objective number instead of a subjective evaluation.

So how to get to where you are actually using heart rate zones in a pool?

A good place to begin is by actually taking your heart rate as most HRM don't work in the water.  You can find your carotid pulse in the "notch" on either side of your Adam's apple.  It may take an attempt or two to find it the first time, but it will get easier.  Use LIGHT pressure with the first and second fingers and you will feel your pulse.  I take my pulse for 6 seconds and then multiply by 10.  Is it the most accurate?  NO!  But it is better than guessing and in my opinion better than spending the small fortune you need to spend for a HRM that is reliable in the water.

Once you can take your pulse, I use a 500 yard TT to determine my Anaerobic Threshold.  Jim may have a different method and I will certainly defer to his wisdom as I still use what are probably antiquated methods.  Once you know your LT then you can determine your zones.  In the article below you can find the USA Swimming recommendations for swimming HR zones.

USA Swimming has done a good deal of work on heart rate zones in swimming.  Here is a link to an article by Genadijus Sokolovas, Ph.D., Director of Physiology, USA Swimming.  Be warned, the article is very technical, but it does provide some good information if you understand the biology and physiology - http://www.teamunify.com/reno/__doc__/Energy%20Zones%20in%20Swimming.pdf

Thanks Scott for the HR info.

Now I have a bike question:  I just used two water bottles in standard frame cages for all my races so far.  I know I could probably do that again even for the full ironman, but I've seen some nifty handlebar mounted bottles and behind the saddle mounted bottles too.  Does anyone have any opinion on what has worked well for them in the past and why?

I managed to get in a baseline of training this week even though I was sick for 4 days.  My official training schedule starts tomorrow.  Looking at slimming down some too, but the chocolate has gotten the better of me lately.  Hope every one is hanging in there and meeting their goals!

Todd