Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 150)

OK folks being from FL I have NO warm clothes to run in...what do ya'll run in? I mean I have long sleeve t-shirts and running shorts.  Do ya'll run in the old cotton baggy sweat pants, I have them too but just lounge around the house in them.  What kind of socks do ya'll run in??? anything special?...my feet feel like ice cubes when they get cold.  Also during the winter how do you keep warm while biking outside?  I would think the wind from the jackets would beat you up pretty bad???

Dina, glad your back is better and getting your basement done...just in time for he cold!

Warren good luck getting home glad everything is fine.

Karl, I use long running pants. I several different types from the spandex/lyrca type to the track type pants. I also use long sleeve under armour tech shirts typically with a sweatshirt over that. I also have a waterproof running jacket, it is very light but warm. I have under armour gloves I use along with a winter hat if it is very cold. Nothing special with the socks. I use the same running socks I normally use. Typically I dress in layers for the approriate warmth and shed them as needed.

I run at the treadmill at the gym... there is wifi there... and it just so happens my dad won an ipad from a raffle so I've got one of those too... the only problem is I don't have any headphones.  I know that seems really lame.  Okay, I may go out and buy some!  My gym also has TVs, which you can hook up the audio to with radio stations... otherwise there is closed caption, so I was even thinking of going to the gym during my TV shows (I've got a few mustsee shows...) but since I don't have radio connection, I was also not sure if I'd want to READ the whole time... oh the dilemma   This is something I need to deal with as well when I'm on the stationary so I'm trying to think about what I'd like to do.  oh first world problems...

Maybe I will also try to suck it up by going outside.......... will keep you all posted

Speaking in generalities about clothing, I prefer the method of layer that allows me to pick layers with insulation appropriate for the temperature and topping it off with a thin and cheap windproof layer so that wind or lack of is never a consideration.  Without the windproof layer I need to dress differently at every combination of temp/wind speed to get just the right amount of wind going through my clothing to leave the right amount of insulation active....

A windproof layer on top a long sleeve cotton T is good down to whatever temp...for me now, maybe down to the 40s.  When I lived in MN that would have me comfortable down to 30.  Colder and I add a layer, probably a wicking layer on the bottom and the cotton layer above that.  Wicking fabrics don't insulate much if any without a layer above them.

I will run in cotton sweatpants for a basic training run.  Going fast gets dragged down by baggie cotton pants so I'd go tights then.  Another good way to go is the same as above, with a cotton base layer for insulation and the windstop layer above, but legs are less sensitive to cold usually so if wind is passing through cotton sweats it's not as uncomfortable.

I know that cotton isn't supposed to be a good fabric because it absorbs sweat.  But poly/lycra/nylon materials conduct temperature far too well and everywhere that layer touches your windstop layer on top the cold is conducted right to your skin ASAP and it's cold.

For socks, I have nothing unusual.  My feet never get cold while running.  I start, step outside and run and step inside when finished and feet never get cold due to the running.  cheap cotton socks that are calf high are comfortable and insulate better than the thinner wicking crew socks that are usually used for running.

Cycling is a whole different discussion and I will save that for a totally different time.

ps. Hats are always good from 50s on down, even 60s if windy.  Get a thin skull cap and it probably covers you on most days all winter.  They are very easy to pull off and stuff in a pocket or hold in your hand as you run if you get warm.  I prefer thin gloves that are windproof because your hands won't need much insulation as you run as long as they aren't being hit by wind.  And when you warm up they can be taken off and held in your hands easily as you go.

I wanted to talk about Karl's question yesterday about making bike improvements.  Ever since this group formed in it's original incarnation (or at least my first involvement!) we've had a great dynamic that welcomes disagreements and I know that's still the case.  This comes in that sense and not out of a sense that I want to push my views on everyone else.  Also, don't take this as any veiled criticism of Jorge's interval program either, I don't poo poo that type of training even if it may seem that way...

So, let me start by asking a question.  Our goal is to increase performance in a 1 hour TT, give or take (probably more GIVE) 10 minutes.  The goal is to improve AEROBIC performance because no performance of over an hour is anaerobic...even if it can temporarily be so, the greatest anaerobic engine on the entire planet will not make anyone faster in an hour long effort beyond more than 60 seconds faster.

I think you will all agree with that.  Now, by the law of specificity, the best way to improve 1 hour performance (which will be accomplished by steady-state power) is to do 1+ hour rides of steady hard effort approaching threshold (or 80% of threshold is more likely realistic).

shorter bursts of power, or training above threshold for 5 minutes here and there WILL IMPROVE AEROBIC efficiency, but not nearly as directly as continual sub-threshold rides. 

Remember, we aren't training to race bikes in a peloton situation.  We are very specifically able to train for ONLY time trialing.  For this reason we will not train the way competitive cyclists train.  They MUST train their anaerobic engine for sprints, breakaways and climbs....we do not.

Question: how do you get your fastest for a 15k race distance?  (about 1 hour so it more directly applies).  Would ANYONE suggest it's to do 1 hour interval sessions all winter?  No, because running's different right?  Yes and no.  There is nothing different about the adaptive process, the difference in running comes ONLY from the traumatic nature that comes at such a high risk for injuries.

Even if injury was not a risk for running, would it be best to train for a 15k race by doing 1/2 mile repeats at 120% of threshold?  That would have nearly no benefit, at least not compared to spending the same amount of time (this includes rest periods between) running at an easy training pace.

The only difference I see that cycling affords us is that with running much of it must be done at and below 80% of threshold so you don't get injured.  But in cycling, your steady state aerobic workouts can be 80-90% threshold, or you can go 100-110% of threshold then come down ONLY to 85% and recover at that level and repeat...that kills, but it's all a long steady slog.  Doesn't need to be easy, but doesn't need to be periodized as intervals...

That's my perspective, but there are other perspectives that are held by smart people that get great results too...

Thanks for listening (reading).

thanks everyone, I need to go shopping.  Sorry about all the dumb questions but remember I'm from a gym background where it is warm inside.  This will be my 1st real winter of training outside. 

oh yea I fished in freezing weather and know how to layer in that but dang i'd hate to run in that stuff.

again thanks

Matt I will defer to the experts here but I have been working on bilateral breathing and I am swimming much better because of it. I go every third stroke so breathe right then 3 strokes then breathe left etc. I think it helps with your form and technique because you rotate to both sides. Typically when you breath to one side to you wind up not rotating enough to the side you don't breathe on. I know that was the case with me plus I was breathing to the right every other stroke which slowed me down because my head was coming out of the water alot. I am noticing I swim much smoother and a bit faster when bilaterally breathing. Also like you said with less effort as well.

This guy is very lucky if that was a bigger shark he might not have been so fortunate.

Tony and Samantha's thought may have some bearing on the question you have, but I have another question.  When you have been doing your breathing, are you breathing every 2nd or 4th strokes?  And, to coincide, are you exhaling while your head is under water during the stroke itself.

If you are breathing every fourth stroke and not exhaling during the stroke it's pretty likely you are not allowing the CO2 to get out of your system properly.  If this is the case it would not be as puzzling that you are close to as fast when relaxing and breathing more often.  Try to make sure you get the pattern of exhaling under water slowly and being nearly exhausted of air by the time you turn for a breath.  I usually leave enough air in my lungs to provide a little bit of hard exhalation to help clear any water around my mouth and then inhale.

Another thing I have noticed is that as you "try" to go faster your form will suffer, you will become winded much easier and your effort will rise rapidly.  Relaxing during a swim, particularly a hard swim session, is more challenging than you might think but once you learn to do it and can stick with it you'll see a lot of improvement.

I'd like more time to explain but "the man" calls and I would like to continue to receive a paycheck for a few more years.

Jeff, thanks on the bike training thoughts.  I like what you are saying.

I tried bilateral breathing and when i breathe to my left, my legs drop like anchors, not sure why but I do know I need to work on that.

On the topic of bilateral breathing, I found this article doing a BT article search:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=2188

Gary Hall Sr. explains the pros and cons of bilateral breathing and has a few drills to try. I learned bilateral breathing so long ago I can't even remember how I learned. Does that mean I am old or just experienced .

I timed myself on my swim Tuesday - not pretty for me but what do I expect after a year of back of pain and month of no swimming. My workout was 500, 400, 300 etc with each set a harder effort. My plan is to repeat the workout in a month and see where I am at. Anyone want to jump on this challenge? Today I will ease into some 50's at 100% effort - just 6 for today I think. I need to remember how to enter the pain cave without totally hating life in the pool .

lol Dina, you are experienced...

Good!  Let us know how it goes in the pool.

I like Gary Hall Sr.  His swim philosophy isn't rigidly tied to the dogma of the past. 

He talks about pros and CONS of bi-lateral breathing you say?  That right there is cool, and unexpected.  It's sacrilege to suggest there are any cons to bi-lateral breathing!

I will mention an interesting anecdote.  2 Olympics ago when the country was abuzz about Dara Torres returning to competition there was an article I read about how her stroke was very carefully analyzed and they found that she was fractions of a second faster whenever she breathed to 1 side versus the other, so she changed her race technique to breathing only to that side (during races).

I'm not a bilateral breather, but firmly believe it's good.  I don't need the bilateral  breathing for technique reasons at this point, because I've worked so long and hard to correct my form when breathing to my 1 side, but yes for most people the bilateral breathing will keep you swimming straighter in open water and help keep your stroke symmetrical which is generally good.....but I do think it's fine for your stroke to be assymetrical around your breathing side if you know what you are doing...in fact I've seen that Michael Phelps does that.

Jeff I agree with you in regards to bilateral breathing. I swim with guys who breathe to one side and they swim well. The biggest benefit of breathing bilaterally is that is forces me to have proper form which is something I need. I am one of those guys who is constantly swimming off course in the open water because of my very poor rotation when breathing to one side. Plus I swim slower becuase I am breathing every other stroke and not keeping my head down and hence the feet and legs drop. I am working on keeping the my head down better too as that is a separate problem I know. So for me I need to do it for techinque more then anything else right now. I think it is a nice to have skill as well especially in the open water.

I also agree with Dirk about the breathing aspect. It is very important to exhale while your face is in the water. I am still working on a way to do this comfortatbly. I have tried exhaling through my nose and that just doesn't work well for me. I have to exhale through my mouth. The only thing is at times I am still exhaling before I breathe when I turn to take a breath. I am trying not to that but it still happens sometimes. This might be one of the most important things to do when swimming as not breathing properly tires you out more than anything else in my opinion expect not being relaxed and not exhaling into the water! I'm working it on.

I can't believe they are still moving forward with the NYC marathon but they have extended the deadline to bail out and have guaranteed entry again for next year. I have until Saturaday to decide what I am going to do. On the one hand I have been waiting 3 years to run it but I sort of don't want to do it under these circumstances. It just doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

I think the resources that have to go to the marathon should be used for helping people who are in need right now not for running a race. Its still a mess in NYC. I am really torn between doing it and not doing it. I don't know I think I am going to wait and see how it goes and to see how much the course is going to change.

I doubt they will be able to start in Staten Island, that would be a shock if they were able to do that since the ferries aren't running so not sure how they get the runners all down there and downtown Manhattan still has no power or train service to get to the ferries unless they are busing everyone there. Also there are like 250 trees down in Central Park and Staten Island got hit very hard. I just can't see them being ready to do this on Sunday.

Tony, I understand your delima.  On that race you want to be relaxed and enjoy the experience.  It has been a b id deal coming and you want it to be perfect.  On the other hand you have trained hrd for it and you are ready.  Let us know what you decide.

The reason I understand, I was fishing a national bass tourney in upstate NY, in Clayton where the St. Lawrence Seaway dumps into Lake Ontario when 9/11 happened.  At that point, fishing just did not seem important.