Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED (Page 16)

Hi everyone,
Happy Friday!  I've got a 48 minute run coming up this afternoon and it's supposed to be mid 60's here in CO today, so I'm hoping to take advantage!

AOD: I do swim drills...definitely. Since I've only been swimming since last June I definitely need them.  I do a lot of catch up, kickboard, pull buoy, and recently I've been practicing flip turns, which I can do about 80% of the time

Hope everyone is having a great day
Brien

WEEKEND HOMEWORK:

Do a sweat test on your longest bike or run that you have planned this weekend. Post: duration of S or B/approx temperature (in F)/sweat rate in oz/hr (sorry Canadians )

For example:

75' bike/68 F (in basement)/40oz per hour
If you have questions about the calculations just post your data and we'll figure it out for you. Hopefully most have seen enough examples that everybody knows what to do.

Even if you've done it before let's do a repeat or do a run sweat test if you did a bike before.

I'd like to get everybody to at least become aware of this stuff. For you peeps doing IM this will be vital to know and address during training/racing. Put it this way, would you show up at the start line for a 13.1 or 26.2 running race dehydrated????

Jamie

Just to add my .02 worth on drill for swimming, I do my warm up every time I am in the pool as drills and then I finish my work out, cool down with drills , especially those that focus on form and function. there is no other are in Tri where doing it right makes such a huge difference.
 I'm one of those that swims for Tri with mainly my upper body and lots of motion transferring power through the hips yet I hardly kick, I save my legs for the the leg sports. (total emersion)
Now if I could just learn to run like I swim life would be good.
I like that terminology someone use about been slippery in the water, smooth as silk and no wasted effort. I really like using paddles as they can create twice the pull effort necessary for normal free style so when you take them off the pull seems effortless and pulling all the way through just seems so natural.

Jamie,
I'll do a sweat test this weekend. The only limitations I will have is I have an easy 48 minute run planned for tomorrow, so hopefully HR will be low (unless it's like today). I'm laying off the bike until Monday when I have a fitting. I've never had a fitting before and my left knee was really starting to bother me only when biking. After my fitting (which I'm really excited about and wish I'd done earlier), I'll do another sweat test on the bike.  Just to be sure I understand...weigh myself before my run, run (but don't drink anything?), then weigh again after?

Thanks,
Brien

So one the question of the day bi do very little drills bi know I need more but like someone said to me once as long as i have time in the water that's all that really matters. I'm up for a run sweat test. I'll do mine on sunday. I have a long swim tonight 3500m in including drills.

Brien,
Cut/paste from page 1 of this thread:

Some thoughts on hydration:

First off. You will find many people that agree and disagree with this. This is simply what works for ME.

I like to do sweat tests. It's a really simple idea. Before you go out for a ride/run get naked, pee and then weigh yourself. Write that # down. During your workout you will have to keep track of the amount of ounces of water that you take in and the amount of times you pee on the ride/run. When you get back strip down and towel off (don't pee) and weigh yourself. Keep in mind that 16oz of water = ~1lb. You can guesstimate the amount of volume in your urine if you need that number.

Subtract your 'end' weight from your beginning weight and convert that number to oz (1lb = 16oz). Add that number to the # of oz of liquid you consumed during the workout.

So, lets say that I weighed 150lb to start and finished at 148lb during a 1 hour run. During that run I consumed 16 oz of water. 150-148 = 2lb. 2lb X 16oz/lb = 32oz. 32 oz + 16oz consumed during the run = 48oz. So, 48oz/hr is my sweat rate. Get it? Keep in mind that sweat rates will vary based on ambient temperatures/humidity and type of exercise.

In the example above you 'shorted' yourself 32oz of water. Will that matter in a race? Well that is the million dollar question. The answer is always dependent on the person but in general, the longer the race the more the I would want to come close to breaking even on that number. As an example, during Kona, I consumed 90oz of water/hr on the bike. For HIM I will consume maybe half that amount simply b/c the effort is so much greater that my stomach can't handle it.

For me, I like to know my sweat rates at various temperatures so when it comes to race day I can have a good guesstimate as to what my sweat rate will be and how to plan my race.

I always say that every workout no matter what the distance is a great time to practice your hydration and collect the data. What you do with that data is up to you but it should influence your individual plan for any long distance race. Personally, for IM I like to try to break even on the bike. Drinking on the bike is EZ for me b/c I have nothing better to do and there is no jostling around like on the run. My sweat rates for the run are way higher than on the bike but I just can't take in all of that fluid and digest it. Typically for the run I've been shooting for about 40oz/hr. (again 1/2 that or even less for HIM)

Practice, practice, practice and see what works for you.
Jamie

Thanks Jamie! I knew we discussed it somewhere but I didn't look back that far. Appreciated!

So I know I asked this before but most people put full carbon bikes and some say no. I have mine on a trainer and I never hammer it. Always areo and smooth. But I can hear my bike frame squeak everytime it flexes. Nothing seems wrong it just makes noise when it flexes. Is this normal or should I have it looked at?

My bike is 100% Alu but I know many, many people that have carbon bikes on trainers and haven't had a problem. The one thing that you want to watch out for is that the cups on the trainer that make contact with your bike are making contact with the skewer and directly on the bike frame. Usually if you use the skewer that came with your trainer you will be ok. If you have a KK trainer it should have shipped with a dedicated skewer and a second smaller set of cups that you can swap out. I would recommend that you release the resistance mechanism (roller) that makes contact with your tire after every ride.

Jamie

Pretty sure that you ordered a Cobb from ebay? If so, make sure you have that with you for your fit. Changing it out after the fit will undo everything. Better to delay fit until saddle comes if you don't have it yet.

Jamie

SWEAT TEST RESULTS FOR ME:

75' trainer ride with 65' @ HIM watts. Done in my basement so it was cool with very low humidity. I had a fan pointed right at me for the entire ride.

My sweat rate under these conditions was 50oz/hr.

I've done this a lot so I pretty much nailed my starting/finish weight. This means that I drank the appropriate amount of water. I also had 2 powergels and 3 salt tabs over this time. These longer isopower efforts are race practice for me so I do everything exactly as I plan to do for the race. Out of aero for a combined 2 minutes. Watts were steady with no surging/spiking.


Have a good weekend everybody,
Jamie

Cobb wasn't me. I'm actually satisfied with the seat my bike came with. I did rides up to three hours on it last summer with no issues, but not nearly as often as I will be doing. Hopefully I won't need to replace my seat with IM training, but I'm certainly not ruling it out as it may become very uncomfortable.  Time will tell.

For me today: I've got a 48 minute very easy run as I've been hammerring my legs this week. I'll use it to do a sweat test as Jamie suggested and get some sort of a baseline.  I'll probably swim drills for 30 minutes or so following my run.

3.1lbs lost over an hour with 13oz of water drank on the treadmill in the gym, so it was pretty hot and not good air flow.  62.6oz of water needed.

Also made a bad drink for the run, wasnt thinking this morning and put 2 scoops of heed in when I should have only done 1 (recovery drink is 2 scoops).  Made it miserable to drink.

  

Has anyone tried the Spinervals Yoga for Triathletes?  Im thinking about getting them for a valentines day gift and it would be a good "Homer" bowling ball present (Simpsons reference anyone?).  They are a little expensive though and I havent seen a ton of reviews for them, even though theyve been out for a while.

I have a bunch of spinervals but no Yoga ones. Never heard anything about them. I did buy my wife one of the irongirl total fitness vids from Spinervals. It's pretty good. Has a mix of bike, weights and pushup/situps. That one is pretty good.

Jamie

Nothing like peer presure to get us doing the right things, I have a 12 mile run Sunday Morning so good time to do the sweat test.  the results will be interesting to see as it will be -24 out but yes will sweat alot guaranteed.

Did 3.5 hours today on the bike between riding and spin classes, so had a good work out. I am bitting the bullet to get a trainer today so after I finish off here of I go to my favorite bike store for shiney new Kurt. Probably makes good sense to get going on this ASAP.

Have a great one.

embrace the Wind

I'm in the middle of my 90 minute bike. I decided to ride into work to take care of something I had to do. It was 30 minutes on the way here so I'll have to take the long route home.

No sweat test for me this weekend - I don't own a scale! I'll have to do it at the gym next week, should be interesting to see everyone's results!

Long version:
48 minute run. I weighed in at 1.2 pounds less then when I started. I drank 20 oz of water. It was inside, but not hot or cold...just right. Given 16oz h2o = 1 lb.  16X1.2 = 19.2.  I would have needed 39.2 oz water for this 48 minutes.  Assuming everything would have remained constant had I run an additional 12 minutes...I'd have needed just barely over 49 ounces for an hour running. Next week I'll do an hour sweat test running and see how close I was. Hopefully I'll be able to do the same for biking also, but I'll need to get a scale at home

Short version:
Lost weight: 1.2 lbs
Water needed 39.2 oz
Water consumed: 20 oz
Water needed for hour estimate: 49
Avg HR: 134
Peak HR: 147 (no idea when that was) 

I think I got all that correct 

48m 09s 6.41 miles 07m 31s/Mi	Min HR: 88 Avg HR: 171 Max HR: 196
Good run outside.  First time in a month or so? Weight at start - 182.5 Weight at end - 180.5 Water consumed - 0 (left in fridge) Temperature 36 degrees So - 45oz per hour would be the sweat rate per hour??????

Edited by wallico 2011-01-29 5:50 PM

Sounds about right Wally. You will need to be on top of this stuff for IMKY. Just imagine what your sweat rate is going to be in the heat and humidity of IMKY. Your sweat rate is NOT unusually high. One of the things I hope to get everybody to see from group sweat rate data is that most people sweat a lot more than they think.

In your case lets just assume you did the bike in the 'I just drink a bottle an hour' crowd (which is really dumb unless supported by data). With some rounding let's say that led to you losing a pound an hour on the bike. Assume 6 hr bike means you show up at the start line of the marathon down by 6lbs of water and probably a little more. So if you weigh 200lbs (I have no idea what you weigh) you would be down ~3% of your body weight before you ran one step. *Most* science says that a loss of 3% leads to decreased athletic performance and is borderline dehydrated.

Figuring all of this out will probably be as critical to your regular training to do well in IMKY. They don't call it the 4th discipline for nothing.
Jamie

Good on ya' for keeping with it. I have had days like this. I always complete the training session unless I'm really sure that doing so is going to cause injury. It's a very good thing to experience running on really tired legs. Maybe you are getting a bit sick, a little dehydrated or need some more sleep. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Jamie

Try to do the sweat test if you can during your long bike.
thx,
Jamie

Looks good to me. Thanks for doing the sweat test.
Jamie