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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jdiis - 2011-05-18 10:36 PM Jackie,Ernesto, That's great that your bike broke before you left town. I am so excited and my classes have actually gotten excited as I talk about what you and Mark and Joan are doing and have done. I've been watching the weather forecast and I think it might only be in the high 80s on Saturday instead of the low 90s. Today they had an article in the paper about a local minister, Grady Chism doing Texas IM. The funny part is I actually met him at the pool one day. He never said anything about doing any IMs at all and I think this is his 3rd or 4th. So now I know two of you that will be there. Two quick questions: 1) What flavor of Perpetuem do you use (Caffe Latte with caffeine or Orange Vanilla without) 2) You mentioned I need to ramp up mileage. Is that adding miles to each workout or adding more workouts to the week? I like Strawberry Perpetuem, I mix it with Melon Heed (from Hammer too) and it tastes delicious. About the mileage, you're doing fine by doing what you've been doing this last two weeks. Try to squeeze in more track somewhere during the week (after vacation starts). Are you gonna have access to the track with the Schools closed? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have so much time in my hands today... It feels very unusual. My wife is joining me tomorrow night (she's still at work). Kiddos are staying behind, they hate long races and I don't blame them. Watching Ironman is almost as tedious as racing one... |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() evillarroel - 2011-05-19 3:07 PM dangremond - 2011-05-19 2:08 PM Like you said, you haven't read Maffetone. I would suggest you read it first, then jump into conclussions. FYI, the method behind MAF is actually FULL of science, Phil happens to be a Doctor, triathlete and the coach of the best past and current triathletes in the world such as Mark Allen, Mike Pigg, Jodie Swallow, Chrissie Wellington, just to name a few.Mike - my four cents... 1st - I haven't read Maffetone. The reason I asked for the link to the HR discussion here at BT is that I think it has a wealth of info on HR training. I don't think that it is in contradiction at all with my basic understanding of Maffetone which is train at lower intensities to build a base, to stay healthy, and to race fast. The only issue I had is with the formulaic approach to determining your optimum HR for training based off of your age. I think it is accepted that 220 minus your age is a crappy way to determine you max hr. For me that would mean my max is 180. I can guarantee it closer to 200 than 180. Along the same lines - 180 minus your age seems equally crappy in determining your best aerobic pace. The LT threshold test allows you to get much closer to understanding your optimum training level. Below is a link to a thread here at BT discussing Maffetone and HR zones. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60404&posts=15 I think if you can do a 30' min field test then your training can be much more tailored to your current fitness. Lots of running in zone 1 (Recovery) and zone 2 (Extensive Endurance) is what I see recommended for building your base. The following link gives some good background on Maffetone Training: http://chrisultra.blogspot.com/2008/07/maffetone-heart-rate-training.html I think I am in complete agreement with Maffetone on the concept - I just feel its better to ensure that your training zones are built off of something more than your age which I think is very arbitrary. You can decide what works best for you - in the end I imagine you will get to a similar destination with either path. Regarding Cadence on the bike. My bike computer has a cadence capability and I ride with Speed and Cadence as my two views. I consistently try to keep my cadence right around 90. Everything I have read says that is the efficient cadence. I adjust my gearing to maintain the that cadence when riding. Regardless of what the book says, I have tried his methods on MYSELF with incredible results. I have recommended the book to many, and I don't know ONE person that doesn't swear by it after trying it out. Lactate threshold testing is expensive and disregards many aspects such as your overall health (just a detail). Maffetone addresses fitness and your body as a whole (Training, stress and nutrition) which I believe is key to success. Also, his focus on recovery as part of training is what makes his athletes so fit with such little work. As an example, ALL the athletes with Mark Allen Online Team (coached by Luis Vargas) train under the Maffetone method. All fifteen of them that participated in Puerto Rico's 70.3 nine weeks ago placed top ten in their AG's (some actually won). Also, zone 1 and zone 2 training is NOT what I do nor recommend, it is too little work. On the other hand, MAF (maximum aerobic force) pushes your body to grow without tapping into your anaerobic threshold. Just like Jackie says, it allows for fast recovery and fast (relative) gains. Ernesto - My post was not meant to challenge your guidance or your role as mentor. Merely to give information to the group and to share my opinions and thoughts based off of my training and research. Are we a community or pupils who should follow you blindly? I think I said that I had no disagreements with Maffetone's concepts. I think I have also said in other posts in this group that you can't do all Long and Slow and that you need to add in tempo and speedwork. Finally, I am not challenging Mafftone's science or credentials. I think I even said they are two different paths that get you to the same place. Perhaps I was overly critical of his formula but he himself states that he came up with it because it was a close approximation to the seasoned athletes he was doing testing on. Finally, I would respectfully disagree that LT field testing (as I recommended) is expensive or threatens my health. Merely suggested as way to get close to a LT number so that he can construct his training zones is desires (per Friel and others). The 5 HR zones is not voodoo science - they are widely accepted and built into the training plans (I believe) here at BT. Again, didn't mean to get in your way. Have a good race - we'll all be cheering for you. Edited by dangremond 2011-05-19 4:21 PM |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() evillarroel - 2011-05-19 3:07 PM Like you said, you haven't read Maffetone. I would suggest you read it first, then jump into conclussions. FYI, the method behind MAF is actually FULL of science, Phil happens to be a Doctor, triathlete and the coach of the best past and current triathletes in the world such as Mark Allen, Mike Pigg, Jodie Swallow, Chrissie Wellington, just to name a few. Regardless of what the book says, I have tried his methods on MYSELF with incredible results. I have recommended the book to many, and I don't know ONE person that doesn't swear by it after trying it out. Lactate threshold testing is expensive and disregards many aspects such as your overall health (just a detail). Maffetone addresses fitness and your body as a whole (Training, stress and nutrition) which I believe is key to success. Also, his focus on recovery as part of training is what makes his athletes so fit with such little work. As an example, ALL the athletes with Mark Allen Online Team (coached by Luis Vargas) train under the Maffetone method. All fifteen of them that participated in Puerto Rico's 70.3 nine weeks ago placed top ten in their AG's (some actually won). Also, zone 1 and zone 2 training is NOT what I do nor recommend, it is too little work. On the other hand, MAF (maximum aerobic force) pushes your body to grow without tapping into your anaerobic threshold. Just like Jackie says, it allows for fast recovery and fast (relative) gains. Thank you for the additional information, you make quite a case for the book. And I have to say, it's an easy read so far and I can't wait to get further into it, especially the nutrition and rest (I never get enough sleep). I've learned more in the past two weeks than in the past year of doing it myself! I'm really excited about training and I appreciate all the time you've spent on my questions. I got a cadence sensor at lunch and will really start paying attention to that in my long rides. My next step is getting clipless pedals (still riding in my running shoes), but I'm going to wait until after my 6/5 race so I have some time to get used to them before any competition. Thanks again and GOOD LUCK on Saturday. We've got cub scout picnic, little league game and a party on Saturday or I'd be there. There's this nagging little notion in the back of my brain that I'd like to be there for real some day. But for now, I will follow your progress and keep you in my thoughts and prayers! St. Sebastian pray for us! (patron saint of athletes Mike |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Don't forget to know your audience. Why recommend a lactate threshold test to Mike? In my years of endurance training I have never done one, I really believe he needs to build an aerobic foundation more than knowing numbers that will dramatically change in the first year of training. also, I never claimed to own the truth, and I accept everybody's opinions regarding endurance training. I do believe however that if you are going to say that the MAF formulas are simplistic, you should read some about it and make an educated challenge. Heck, you could use some of his training yourself as well as evidenced by your high HR numbers. I train at MAF about 90 percent of my time and I keep getting faster at lower heart rates. Thanks for the cheers! |
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![]() | ![]() All I know is that if Maffetone says "get more sleep", I already hate him! In fact, it's probably more true in my case to say I should exercise in order to sleep more rather than to say I should sleep more in order to exercise better. This might be before everyone's time, but one of my favorite Saturday Night Live skits (you know, when it used to be funny?) starred Rob Lowe as a soldier who can't for some reason get his Army helmet off, years after leaving the Army. Everyone he meets asks him if he's tried soapy water until it just drives him over the deep end and he ends up screaming "Soapy water? Soapy water was the first thing I tried. Then it was the 7th thing I tried. then it was the 24th thing I tried. Soapy water? Soapy water..." until he breaks down crying. |
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![]() | ![]() Btw, I am buying the book. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() evillarroel - 2011-05-19 4:49 PM Don't forget to know your audience. Why recommend a lactate threshold test to Mike? In my years of endurance training I have never done one, I really believe he needs to build an aerobic foundation more than knowing numbers that will dramatically change in the first year of training. also, I never claimed to own the truth, and I accept everybody's opinions regarding endurance training. I do believe however that if you are going to say that the MAF formulas are simplistic, you should read some about it and make an educated challenge. Heck, you could use some of his training yourself as well as evidenced by your high HR numbers. I train at MAF about 90 percent of my time and I keep getting faster at lower heart rates. Thanks for the cheers! I believe that mike said he has been training aerobically for a couple years. I wouldn't think a LT field test would be too much. I've done formal lactate field tests for running and cycling in my 1st full season based on the Triathlon Training Bible by Friel. I fully admit I train to hard - that is why I stated that I agreed conceptually with Maffetone. I've read some of his articles and still maintain that his formula is essentially taking a lot of data and figuring out a formula that gets you pretty close to the actual number. At the same time, I agree that a LT field test is inexact as well...which led me to state they were different paths that got you to the same place. Also, I like knowing a rough approx. of my LT - I find it useful in race situations to know my limits. Finally, I apologize if I misread the tone of your reply to my post. Again, good luck - I view us as a community within a community. That is why I am here.
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() way to go jackie
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() evillarroel - 2011-05-19 3:28 PM I have so much time in my hands today... It feels very unusual. My wife is joining me tomorrow night (she's still at work). Kiddos are staying behind, they hate long races and I don't blame them. Watching Ironman is almost as tedious as racing one... So, if you don't know what to do with your time, take us behind the scenes of an Ironman competition. Tell us what you do when you show up on Thursday for a Saturday race. What thoughts are going through your head? How do you relax, or do you? What is your ritual, etc. What is this expo deal? Are all 2500 triathletes there already? Do you watch the weather, etc. The peeps want to know, all right maybe just me. |
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![]() | ![]() Hey, "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" has a Kindle edition. Just downloaded it for my iPad. Now I just have to finish the two books I've already downloaded and haven't finished. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Ernesto, I'm glad to hear that you caught your bike's bigger potential problem just in time and a good reminder for all of us to always check our equipment thoroughly before an important race. We are all rooting for you and are confident that you will do very well in your race. I will try to follow your progress during your race (assuming I have good Internet access in the town where my 1/2 M is taking place) and look forward to hearing the details after you are done. Best of luck amigo and may all your hard work pay off! Gabriel |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Best of luck Saturday Ernesto! I'll be trackin' ya from the windy city! |
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![]() | ![]() Good luck on your half marathon Gabriel. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() alfredo1414 - 2011-05-17 2:47 PM ok, so last week I was totally surprised when I read Chris race laps, Nice job, and I noticed that Im not even close to those numbers, not even in my tempo runs, so yesterday I decided to step it ut in the tempos and intervals, my question is, Is there an increase limit per week or day as to speed, distance, time or HR that I can do as Tempo or Intervals? Also I notice that in the weekend I would gain 2 to 3 lbs, and by tuesday, I'll be back to normal, any ideas on why? btw, I dont pig out
On my scale, I notice it depends when I get weighed. It fluctuates 2 to 3 lbs everytime I get on. I can weigh myself 3 times a day and they will all be different by a couple of pounds. The trick may be to weigh yourself at the same time everyday. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() baurryman - 2011-05-19 10:53 PM Best of luck Saturday Ernesto! I'll be trackin' ya from the windy city! Barry, I think Chi-town sent the wind to Texas. How's your training going? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() older2533 - 2011-05-19 10:55 PM Good luck on your half marathon Gabriel. +1 here Gabriel. Kick assphalt! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks Chris and Jackie Jackie, way to go on your bike! Chris, I'm still very impressed by your recent 1/2 M run! BTW, I finally got my Maffetone book today (things take a few extra days to make it down to Guatemala Cheers, Gabriel |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jdiis - 2011-05-19 10:57 PM Thanks for asking Jackie. The springtime allergies/asthma have let up and I'm having fun and training consistently now. The biggest problem has been my work schedule and finding time to get all of the workouts in. Gotta do something about that in the future if I'm ever going to train for an Ironman.baurryman - 2011-05-19 10:53 PM Best of luck Saturday Ernesto! I'll be trackin' ya from the windy city! Barry, I think Chi-town sent the wind to Texas. How's your training going? |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks Jakie, A friend that is a nurse also told me that it could be the water or liquids that i take, so maybe a conbination of both.. BTW, will not be able to make it to Woodlands, I got the day off but my wife didnt, so we will follow Ernesto on the internet.. I really wanted to go, guess i have to find a race to volunter closer to home.
Ernesto, the best of luck !!! |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Ernesto: finally, yesterday I went through the LT test protocol and I get this numbers, Waht do You think about them?, the good news is that I'll be able to train smart now.
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Ok, This number:
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Fer Cuevas - 2011-05-20 10:46 AM
Ok, This number:
[edit: Sorry my original post didn't make it through...meant to say / post the following] I'll avoid touching this one (Ernesto - just being silly on my end). Edited by dangremond 2011-05-20 1:53 PM |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dangremond - 2011-05-20 11:01 AM Fer Cuevas - 2011-05-20 10:46 AM
Ok, This number:
Hi Dangremond, Yeah, I know it was a little confused, but since I forgot to include the table I was talking about in the previous post, I decide to put it in a diferent one. Sorry But any way the thing is that this numbers come from my LT test that I did yesterday, in order to start training with heart rate base instead of RPE, wich I think it´ll be better, if I´m not wrong. Thank You for the input |
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