Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 166)

Wow I miss 1 day and I miss so much here.

Warren, Dirk and Jeff, thanks for all the advice for the bike training.  It has been a while since I rode (being out of town for work and Thanksgiving) and it was so nice to get back out. 

Samantha, I would LOVE to have those swim times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our tri club did start some sort of a national challenge with a national challenge of tri clubs, December is swim focused, January bike focused and Feb run focused, are any of ya'll in it?  I will have to get my swim times in...inspite of the cold.

Yea Warren, I have the 5 mile race this morning and it is currently 47 outside.  I don't know what to wear.  I just don't have the experience in dressing for running and even less for biking.  Wife told me I can NOT run hard, it has to be an easy run.

Have ya'll tried the Cucumber flavored gatorade.  It is my new favorite.

I know this post is all over the place..sorry......

I had my first ART appointment yesterday for my foot.  It is a chiropractic care office so I got a few other adjustments as well.  The ART got my foot a little more aggravated than it has been for a few days but as of right now it seems to be alright.  I was told not run on my foot until I see the doc again on Wednesday.  I guess that's alright given that I haven't run for ore than a week.

The lack of running is driving me insane on many levels but the biggest of which is that Boston is 4.5 months away.  However, I have finally been able to commit my mind to making sure I get back into running shape and make sure I do it as early as possible to be able to even make a showing at Boston.  I need to make sure I take the time off now and allow as much time as possible toward the end to get my mileage back up.  I also know that I won't be able to get the mileage in that I had originally planned.  I was hoping to get a couple of months worth of 50 MPW running so I could hopefully tear through the course setting another PR. 

If I am not able to run something like a race that I would like to run I am already thinking of a redeeming race to get me back to Boston in another year or so.  The only problem with that plan is that I am hoping to lay down my first IM in 2014 if I can swing it.

I haven't weighed in on the flip turns this time but  guess I'll take the chance to go ahead and do so.  I think flip turns can help you focus more on swimming in a hypoxic state.  As I was learning to do them I was always struggling to breath right off of the wall after the turn.  I had been used to getting that big gulp of air when making an open turn and now all of a sudden I had to figure out what was going on.  As I learned to flip turn better I was also learning better head position and stroke technique because I needed to make adjustments in my proficiency or drown.  I chose the proficiency. 

It seemed to me that I had to learn to conserve O2 for each turn so I needed to figure out what it was that I needed to change to maintain the same speed.  As I learned the flip turns I also began to work on hand positioning and focus on my pull more.  It really didn't take me all that long to learn to flip turn and from there my form took a little better shape and my times are a little better.

Dirk be careful with this. I like ART and it has helped me with a lot of things but it is not always the correct treatment. It is so hard to know but with my tendonitis it actually made the issue worse. When ART works for me I have found I feel relief from the time I leave the office but the area worked will feel sore from the manipulation, there is a difference. Have you tried any orthotics yet? Maybe even just some over the counter to get the pressure off of that area? You have to find something to calm that inflammation. Once that happens you are not banished to wearing orthotics forever, they are like a prescription just like NASIDS. Have you pinpointed the cause of your PF? PF just makes me nervous because I battled it for 9 months one year, painful to the point that little old ladies were passing me walking around the mall and no running throughout that whole time. I know you have some big stuff planned and I don't want you to waste valuable time. I think Warren and Jonathan have experience with ART also so maybe then can offer some perspective too.

Also, I know I have mentioned this before but MAT (Muscle Activation Therapy) has also worked wonders for me. There are some therapists in Indy, here are a couple of links if you would like to read more about it:

http://indymat.com/

http://correctivebiomechanics.com/

They are in the same office building. I have been to Chad at Corrective Biomechanics.  I'm not trying to push any businesses or anything like that. I'm just trying to think of everything that might possibly get you some relief as quickly as possible. Like ART, when MAT works I feel relief when I leave the office.

I can sympathize with you about not running. I'm in the same boat. I tried the elliptical and water jogging this past week just to make me feel like I'm still using those running muscles.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor, just have a lot of experience with foot pain .

I love doing this very thing.  It is why logging can prove to be so beneficial for all of us.  Taking that look back on occasion can produce more motivation than some of the races that we complete because we have a longer period of time to see how things happen.  Races can vary year to year based on weather and nutrition and many other factors but when you look back at your training log that's where the real picture of where you are today versus where you were when you started or last season.

For instance, I looked back to 2009 when I first began to train for triathlon.  I had a swim workout December 4 that totaled 2300 yards and had a 3x500 for the MS.  Now I didn't take the time that early in my training to record my lap times so I can't give a interval time for that swim but the entire WO was 50 minutes and including the rest interval my BT recorded avg. pace for the WO was 2:10 per 100 yards.  Now compare that to yesterday's 2900 yard WO in 49:41 the BT recorded pace was 1:43 per 100 yards.  I love seeing that change too.  It is a big motivational factor.

I don't have time right now but you kind of have me fired up to take a look at all of these changes on the bike and run too.  I'll take a look later if I have time.

Cucumber flavored gatorade?  Sounds interesting.... lol

Okay, I completely see this argument.  I guess I don't have an excuse any more.   So I'll go back to my original, I just haven't bothered to learn... and not have any reason for it.

I hadn't thought about the breathing aspect of flip turns Dirk, though I really on a steady breathing pattern and maintain it through my non-flip turns.  Meaning that I don't use the turn as a way to get more or bigger breaths, but rather use it maintain my current breathing cycle.  If I get to the way immediately after a breath stroke, I won't even breath as negotiate the turn.  I hate to have my breath rhythm broken up so frequently by the 25 yard barriers.  I guess that's another reason I dislike pool swimming.  Oh well, I may as well learn the flip turn so I look more like a swimmer for at least a few seconds while I'm flailing in the pool!

Keeping logs has really helped me in a lot of ways.  You can also use it to track equipment usage, such as how many miles you're getting on a pair of shoes, or how many miles since you changed your chain.  You can also track weather, aches and pains, and anything out of the ordinary to help find patterns in your training or pinpoint when issues started.  Seeing progress can also be a very good motivator.

Yes, I started to do this this year too!  

I would have never thought to track my usage of a swimsuit either, but, I recently bought a new swimsuit, and it says it's good for 280 hours in chlorine, so I figure I might as well track it!

Yeah.......Uhhh??  Interesting.  That's what I was going to say.  NOT!!!!

I thought the same thing Dina.  I ma going to keep an eye on what's going on and go from there.  It felt pretty good when I left the office and then it came back a while later.  Today it seems to be better but I'm not sure if the flare up was caused by some other type of "something" yesterday that I can't put my finger on or what.  I am trying to be patient with it but it is a nervous patience to be sure.

This is a copy and paste from my log entry today.  It was an incredible back half of a long ride!

"This was a group ride with 3RVS. It was the first Sho-n-go I've been on and 18 riders showed up. Several of the riders were not strong riders and the ride south (into the wind) was a more slowly progressing. We had a strong headwind for much of this part of the ride. After the initial WU the group seemed to pick up the pace a little bit but by the time I got up front and was trying to push my intensity a little and allow the group to fall in behind and draft, they started splintering a little. I ended up slowing some and wasn't able to pull quite as much or as hard as I would have liked. It seemed with every stop sign and every corner the group would splinter and those of us up front would have to slow down and wait for some of the stragglers.

Once we turned around and got half of the group together after pit stop, a couple of guys decided they wanted to try to catch one of the riders that was about a half mile in front of us. As these 2 took of I was trapped in the group and I didn't want to get left with some of the slower riders so I pulled back until I could get out of the group and hammered ahead until I caught these 2. Once with them I was able to recover and then pull into the draft, rest and get ready for a hard pull. I checked my watch for speed, because I knew we were flying, and noticed about 29.5 MPH. We were cruising!! Once I got home I checked the average speed for the last 20 miles at 24.15 MPH and I had 2 miles above a 30 MPH avg. 15 of the last 20 miles was above 21 MPH.

All of the pulls over the last 20 miles had a HR slightly below or at threshold. It was AWESOME!!"

I was totally shocked that I was able to hold on for as long as I did.  I never thought I had that much in me.  So many of the miles were above 25 MPH and my effort was really tough for many of those miles but I was able to recover well within the group.  # riders can really lay the hammer down if we want too.  I have to qualify this ride a little bit too though.  We had a tailwind of about 11 MPH and occasional gusts of 22 MPH.

Dirk, congrats!

I also got outside for a ride today, and I for one cannot believe I am riding outside, in December, in Michigan!  I also got out for a ride during Thanksgiving break.  I remember a couple years ago being happy just to be able to ride outside in October!

Regarding your foot, clearly I am not a medical professional and I don't know the full extent of your situation, but does your ART/chiro guy have experience with runners?  Maybe you are already doing this, but in searching for professionals to help you with your foot situation, I would try to specifically look for people whose ultimate goal is truly to get the runner running again and has experience with it.  Maybe your situation is such that it warrants that rest, but just thought I'd give my two cents!  I have had foot problems in the past and went to see a podiatrist.  I was shocked (and hesitant!) when he told me to start running again immediately, even though the foot hurt.  (He gave me orthotics and heel inserts.)  Same with my ART/chiro guy I saw.  I really didn't expect him to tell me to start running, even though there was a bit of pain/discomfort, but he did.  Again, maybe rest truly is the best option in your case, but in some situations it is possible to start running again through the healing process, and in order to do this, it would be helpful to see someone who has experience with runners.

Is this just available in Florida? I've not seen that flavor make it's way up north yet and I can't say it sounds appealing but I wouldn't be against giving it a try. Now if it were prune flavored or something like that I think I would take a pass.

Dirk that was a great ride you had today. The speeds you were able to hit were very impressive. I can only hit those speeds going downhill or while driving my car. All the hard riding you have been doing has definitely paid off for you. On another note and I am no expert when in comes to foot issues and I think everybody here who had dealt with that can speak better than I can on that but I think you are doing the smart thing with taking care with the PF. I have not had issues with that but I have had to deal with Piriformis syndrome and the only thing that seemed to help me was rest and easing back into running. I can definitely understand the fustration and the concern as well since I had it happen when training for my first marathon. It sounds like you are doing you every thing you can and exploring all options. Hopefully it will not be an issue for you as you get ready for Boston.

Just to let you guys know I got my Kurt Kinetic power bike computer working and it works great. It's not really a power meter in the true sense but it works great and is a very inexpensive alternative to the more expensive power meters. It's another option like trainer road. The only down side to it is that it is only geared to work with the Kurt Kinetic trainers and it won't give you accurate power readings when riding outdoors but the rest of the bike computer functionality would work fine outdoors. The other thing I like about it is that it has the HR monitor as well so I don't have to use the my Garmin for that which is one less thing to worry about. It is definitely one of the best investments I made this year.

Dirk, great biking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Hope you get your foot pain relieved and are able to train for Boston!

Tony, glad you are enjoying your new toys.

I'll be out of town this week for work.  The good thing is I will be in S. FL where hopefully it is warm.  I hope to get lots of swimming and running in.

I did run the 5 mile race yesterday, I ran slow, focused on form and watching the course (people and hills).

Oh and by the way, the cucumber gatorade is really good. It is refreshing...  lol

I appreciate all the thoughts and advice on my foot.  I have taken some time to attempt to locate someone I think will work for me in my attempt to get this under control.  Since the adjustment and treatment my foot has been better.  It's kind of where the "normal" pain would have been had it not been treated.  I have another appointment on Wednesday and I plan on asking some of the questions many of you have suggested.  I know I was concerned later in the day Friday when the pain had increased after the treatment.  I kind of blew this off a little bit because I had never experienced ART and the effects after a treatment.

The only time I had ART was after the Rev3 HIM in September when I finished the race.  the specialist then used some stretching techniques to provide some fairly instant relief but later in the day the pain returned.  I certainly seem to be able to blame that on the pain of the race and the build up of scar tissue I had allowed by letting it go for as long as I did. 

The moral of my situation for all of you would be to take care of your physical ailments as soon as you can.  I didn't allow my recovery to become complete back in February when I took a couple of weeks off and I did not look for any treatment.  Had I taken the time then to have this properly treated it is unlikely I would be fighting it today.  The only thing I was worried about in Feb. was a possible HM in May.  That race would have been just another race and NOT the Boston marathon.  But I guess I had to be a tough guy.  We'll see how things go.  I haven't given up either.  That will not happen!!

Tony that sounds like a great setup and it should keep you busy this winter .

I also love looking stuff up in my training log although I find it a little depressing since I'm getting slower in two sports!

Dirk that sounds like one awesome ride. I also road yesterday but the results were a little slower. The wind here was rough and I was on my road bike while my friend was on her tri bike. I had to draft just to keep up with her and my average for the ride was only 16 something LOL! My knees feel much better since the adjustments to the road bike but I really feel like I have NO power. Hills I easily go up in the big ring on my tri bike I am fighting my way up in the little ring on my road bike.

Matt congrats on a peachy November! That is excellent!

Almost a week with no sweets and I can honestly say I feel so much better. I just wish these cravings would go away.

Dirk...everyone has pretty much said what I think about the ART treatment.  It's always painful for me for a couple days after.  Always worked though.  Good luck!  I really love your lack of the ability to give up!.

Well, I got my 8 miles in this morning.  Wasn't pretty, but I got it done.  Now to spin on the trainer for a bit to loosen my legs up.

Dirk, ART has often caused my great pain, in fact, for the sessions which have really seemed to do the most good I've almost hit the point of tapping out.  I do agree that it is really beneficial if you see someone who understands endurance athletes and also someone who knows when ART is not the answer.  And you WILL do Boston, even if Jonathan and I have to take turns carrying you the last 10k.

Dina, I've used South Beach to kick the sugar habit (sounds similar) and it was about 2 weeks before I lost the cravings, but they amazingly went away.  That was from a minimum pint a day ice cream habit.

Tony, as long as the readings you're getting are consistent, the absolute measurements aren't really important.  I use trainer road virtual power during the winter and it doesn't seem accurate but it is consistent so I can measure effort and progress reliably.  Not being able to transfer it outdoors is a little bit of a bummer, but there's no way I can spring for a true PM right now.

Warren I agree I will keep an eye on that and make sure I am getting consistent readings and yeah I wish I could use it outdoors for power but it is what it is. I hear you a true PM is not in the budget for me either but this is better than nothing. I also noticed that it seems my speed was higher with the KK then the Cateye so not sure about which one is more accurate but to your point if I get consistent readings then I should be good.

Dirk, really sorry about your PF and Boston.  Have you thought about toughing it out through Boston rather than going for a healing right now?

Hey, since bringing up the logging subject I will add 2 things.  It's not logged, but points out the value of a historical view...I ran 12+ miles with my daughter Jordan yesterday in the extreme terrain of the park we run on weekends.  Last year at this time we were working her towards completing her half marathon in the Spring.  I would do 10+ but she would only do half of it with me...and she was doubting she could be ready for a half on time.    Another cool thing is that she had agreed to 10 and when we were almost done I said "wouldn't it be cool if running 12 miles were as easy as running 2"?  She said, "Yeah!" and then I dropped the bomb...."Well, let's run 2 more miles" and she readily agreed.

My 2nd point on logging:

Who can beat my November numbers?

My Saturday workout was awesome!  Please allow me to bore you with some details.  As you may know, my rides are indoors and I've been going to a local Y on Saturdays that has 3 spin classes back to back.  This is my endurance ride each week.

They just got new spin bikes that have actual power meters!  Not guesstimated power either, the real thing.  So their speed readout is more realistic since it's based on power output (as is distance).  The calories burned is more realistic for the same reason.  I know that speed and distance is based on a computation that makes some assumptions about drag coefficient and rolling resistance....and I also don't know how properly calibrated these power meters are.

However, it marked only my 2nd time to ever get a chance to train with power.  Over the course of the 3 hours my average HR was 151!  A new high mark.  That's stinking high for an average..for me.

My average power output over the entire 3 hours was 268 watts.  I found that 300 and 350 were fairly easy to hold.  I even caught myself at 370 often.  I didn't do a 20 minute test of course, but I can see how my FTP could be 350 perhaps even a little better.  That was encouraging to me.

Oh, and calories?  The calorie counter on the head unit stopped counting at 1999, and that was before my 2nd hour was up!!!  It was funny hearing other people talk about their calories...400 for an hour?  Not as much as they had thought I think...but they are probably doing 100 watts.

According to the head unit I had done 56 miles (HIM ride) in 2:17.  And of course that assumes no wind, no elevation change and probably super smooth pavement and who knows what CDa.

So all the numbers are loose, but interesting to me nonetheless.

Matt, that's quite good on the running!  I was having this conversation with my daughter yesterday as she lamented that she's running every day but not cycling.  As I told her, the running keeps you fit, even extends your fitness cardiovascularly.  In the Spring you can get on your bike and do perhaps as little as 2 key workouts and have your muscular conditioning back.  You probably won't be faster, but you can get it back to where it was quickly.