Not phat? Phatknot SLAYER - CLOSED (Page 17)

Hit the pool this morning...about 1800-2000 yards.  Turns out it was IM day.  No thank you.  My butterfly is seriously bad and my breast stroke kick is bizarre.  I'm not sure my legs bend that way

Afternoon run later.

About running shoes: I wear Kayanos with Superfeet insoles, always, for all distances.  I love them.  I used to wear Saucony Hurricanes and like them, but they had a bit too much room in the toe box and gave me blisters.

i can COMPLETELY relate

phew.
time to get outta the office for SPIN CLASS!
(a very welcome break in the day)

I've spent quite a bit this year...I'd estimate around $1600, but that's for 8 races, including an Oly, HIM and IM.  My run races are a lot less than my tris.  I'm sure I'll wind up spending more as the year goes on.  Totally worth it because I love to race and it keeps me motivated. 

Triathlon is my Country Club so I don't sweat the entry fees. I would guess 1-2k. That doesn't include Hotel and transportation

I worked really late and had a early morning meeting so I missed the input. I rode today and had a great time. A lot of big climbs.

My race tomorrow is not a big priority. Just have to beat wifey. She is a good bit younger than me and can give me a beatdown if she wants, but I think we will be closely matched tomorrow. FWIW the Chick-filet chicken is racing also. He gets a 3 minute head start and if you run him down you get a chicken biscuit at the finish line. Game-on

My fees and philosophy are like Peter's. Hit it up if you love it. Some folks save $ by not doing WTC/mdot races and do the locals. I do what i want and work extra if I have to, just to afford my fave hobby.

I am sooo glad to not be in a masters class like nerdjock where they want me to swim backstroke, breast, and bfly too. haha you all would get a great laugh. 

today i got out of court a bit early and hit the pool for 3150yards in an hour at IM pace. Looking to hit the bike in the trainer up in a bit. Testing early next week so he's getting me ready.

we want a great race peter! smash her up.

Any of you check out that T2 video yet? was hoping to get some good feedback.

Slayer - You don't want me to "help" you with your transitions.  One of my transition times was so bad that my husband, who does not do tris, asked in all earnestness if I had gotten sick or lost or something when we saw the time breakdown.  Very sad, but it was my first race.

So my week has been OK - M and W and hour on the trainer and masters swim on Tues.  Yesterday was a heavy work day so I took it off and planned to swim today, but instead got another snow day.  Daycare at gym is closed, so I only have shoveling to show for today.  Will try another trainer ride tonight and swim tomorrow.

My question to you more experienced athletes is this: I am not really focusing on anything during my rides except getting time in the saddle.  I go at moderate exertion and just want to focus on putting in as much time as I can since I am new and a craptastic cyclist.  Is this valid?

Slokat,
Ride, ride ride. Ride hard as much as you can. Than ride some more. I have had tremendous improvement using spinervals videos. Harvey would crush me in overall power and be able to give you better advice,  but I would suggest picking up a couple of videos and going to town.

The T2 video was awesome. HD video. If I have any criticism  it is the 2 hands on the bike. You can drive a bike with one hand by the saddle fine. The 2 guys behind you made up a little time. I really like they way you didn't even consider socks. Socks are overrated.

If you could ditch the  bike shoes while you are still on the bike you wouldn't have to yank them off.

You were also a little gentle putting your bike on the rack. That was the least abuse your bike got that day. you were first at the rack and the next five people who arrived there kicked your bike, shoved it around and abused it. Just throw it up, put the shoes on, grab the goodies (race belt, hat, whatever) and go.

Great video and could easily be a training video but like everything, there is room to be fast albeit not much.


FWIW I feel a little foolish, I thought I was going to run down a chicken but learned it is a cow.

Slokat: Peter is correct that you might benefit from throwing some harder efforts in and DVDs are cheap and helpful workouts or you could even google some bike programs based on RPE or percentage of max.We are all waiting to hear if Peter beat his wife and a cow hahaThanks for the feedback on my t2 video. I need to figure out how to dismount while leaving my shoes clipped on the bike, drive it one handed, chuck it on the rack, etc. Slokat better take notes! Need to brick it out this afternoon after girls swim meet. Go slay!

At least you didn't take the time to put a second pair of shorts on like the guy next to you
Looked like you were cruising! 

I'm officially a "Wife Beater" Not sure if I set a PR or not. Unofficial time was 24' 37" but I started the time a little before the start and stopped a little after the finish. The start was really crowded (2k people). I tried to work my way to the front but also didn't want to be up impeding the real runners. Unfortunately many walkers decided they wanted to be up front also. 3 years ago I was struggling to go sub 30' so I am happy with my progress. I'm considering a running coach. Maybe even the FIRST program.

Congratulations!  I hate it when I get stuck behind walkers.  People seem to be so confused about seeding themselves properly...which is especially bad when it's a short race and you don't have a lot of time to get around them.  This pet peeve is only second to multiple people walking side by side so you can't pass.  That's great progress!  I used the FIRST program for a couple of marathons.  It was great! 

Got a question for you all: what about compression socks?  I know people are all over on this issue.  I'm thinking of using them for recovery since my legs are going to start receiving a beating.  Do any of you use them?  Do they help?  I bought some DeSoto ones, but, alas, I did so before reading the bt boards and bryancd (who knows a lot of shiz) said they suck. Should I return them or will a bit of compression still help?  I'm not trying to break any records, just want to alleviate/prevent some soreness.

Thanks. I had to go around a couple of lines also. I had to slow up then speed up several times which I'm sure burned some energy. I also had to run side to side to get around a lot of people. I'm 6'5" and was wearing my yellow cycling jacket. My wife said it was hysterical watching me dodge people.

Were you just running when you did FIRST or did you you work it into your tri training? Did you do the formal plan or just put the 3 key workouts in each week?

I was mostly just running.  I did a couple of tris that season (including my infamous doggy-paddled HIM) but I was half-azzing it.  I always did the 3 key workouts and then biked a couple of other days that week.  It kept my run mileage down and that helped with some nagging overuse injuries I had developed.  I did use that program when I insanely rode my bike around Lake Tahoe (76 miles) and then ran the Tahoe marathon the next day.  This was 6 months after I started biking and within 18 months of starting to run.  I credit that program with allowing me to move because I was way beyond my ability with that one.

Edited by nerdjock 2011-01-22 10:54 AM

Can I get a hell yeah for Peter? Well done man!!!! Sounds like sub 24 is well within reach. If you did FIRST I'd say do it in offseason not triseason given your size but you could easily try it out as it fits. For me the intensity on dead legs put me close to injury. When I was single sport, FIRST worked great though. Plus you burn weight off quickly on it.I'm huge compression aficionado. I love CEP to race and train in. 2xu to work everyday. Have the zoot compression Outfit for postrace recovery. But I can't live without my CEPs!nor can my wife. She's got hers in hot pink and I just got the hot green. Ride and run in them...

I know a lot more about compression hose and leg swelling than my poor typing skills allow me to relate. this is a special interest of mine and I have treated hundreds if not thousands of legs over the last 15+ years. There is no question people with superficial venous insufficiency benefit greatly from compression. People with deep disease get some benefit especially if they have a component of superficial incompetence that is corrected by compression. Studies have been done on normal legs but no benefit has been shown. To complicated matters, an athlete may develop incompetence once they are stressed or warmed up.   

There have been several studies presented at venous meetings in regards to athletic performance and the use of compression. I am not aware of any of the studies showing a benefit. Negative studies are hard to get published and since the studies are often sponsored by the hosiery companies the results are not freely published.  

As far as recovery I think it a good idea to use compression especially if your legs are swollen. Ice and elevation is still probably better.

As far as brand I can't be much help. I use surgical grade hosiery at 30-40 compression. They are ugly as anything. I get samples of different brands occasionally. My wife swears by the benefit of compression, I'm not really sold on it. 

If you have any questions, I am all ears.

Edited by pschriver 2011-01-22 12:26 PM

So, if I'm going to wear them, I should wear them during running/riding.  Is there a limit to how long they can be worn?

I've been doing this for over 3 years. "WHEN IS THE OFFSEASON?." By the time I recover from a big race in Nov. I am starting to get ready for a race in mid-March.

There is no limit to how long you can wear them. I have people wear them non-stop for 48 hours and have not seen any problems. I know some MDs have their patients wear them even longer and allow them to shower with them on. This is in properly fitted medical grade 30-40 hose which are only available by prescription. Lower compression should be no problem at all.

Thanks, pschriver!  I'm gonna join the compression bandwagon and hope good things happen.

This kind of reminds me of the debate about supplements. You really can not partial out the effects of most of these yet the supplement industry continues to make lots of claims and $. Its so hard for the consumer to really discern how to proceed. I have called myself a supplement agnostic. For me, this means I don't have confidence that they are making much if any difference for me, but my blood numbers are great and I am afraid to find out what happens if I don't take them. thus I take about 20 tablets every morning (D, Fish oil, baby aspirin, multi, etc). I am probably fine without it but what the heck? Do I risk not taking them?

On the compression attire, I really have a stronger opinion from my individual use. However, the science, as Peter alludes to, is really not there to support them for during activity. Many debates have been aired on this site and other forums including the medical community. Clearly there is some support for recovery uses but less so for activity. Nonetheless, they are on wild fire in the tri community which is quite an educated bunch as a whole. Are we all being duped, or is there something to the whole theme?

BryanCD  wore the Zoot sleeves @IMAZ 09 for a KQ time in the low 9 hours (but he never said if he tookk a multivitamin that year haha), but I was advised by the folks at CEP on slowtwitch to not wear the sleeves more than the time of a half marathon. I wore the CEP socks for all my longer rides and longer bricks as well as for IMAZ and IMFL.

Peter probably would be able to tell you I was not really supported by science and putting myself at risk, along with many many others on longer course tris in recent years. (this is not a shot at Peter as he only is re-stating what he knows scientifically). You, knowing the risks and lack of support for compression during activity (or for tri-related supplements like optygen), ultimately have to make the call yourself, just like with supplements.

I choose to use them for activity and for recovery, but I'd be glad to hear Peter say in no uncertain terms that the use of them during activity is completely asinine. Then I might rethink my position.

Key for me is the complete absence of the formerly ever-present calf strains that niggled me consistently when I got into running then tris.

I also want to respond to Peter on the offseason dilemma. I really have no offseason for training. However, I can do more of a focus on a single sport at the end of the racing season. There would be a key time to throw FIRST in; however with the program, you are using a periodization type of model in that you would be peaking your running for March or so; then you would be detraining to a certain extent during the racing season. I know that FIRST is a year round program and that it fits the triathlete perfectly if your body can tolerate the intensity. But mine can't. I so badly want to do it this year as I feel the most time to be gained is on my run. Shanks says no based on how it tore me up last time we tried to use it during an IM build.

Ideally, the coaches look for tri-runs to be about 10% above your standalone run times. However my best IM run time is 233 mins and my best standalone mary time is 186 mins which is about 20% off. My best HIM run time is 100 mins and I have a standalone at 87 which is about 13% off. I am migrating more to a BarryP model of running lots and frequently but slower to prevent injury and build strength and stamina. But I prefer the intensity and feel much faster that way. At the end of the day, however, you have to recognize your limitations and decide what is best for you.

Hi all, sorry not been around for a couple of days but work loomed again - that always happens to me on an almost weekly basis.

Still going well, managed a 1 hr intense race pace spin session so I'm now pretty worn out and recovering.

Hope you're all still going strong.