Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN! (Page 17)

Steve:  there are definitely cycling groups  and at the Oly I did last week, a guy I know from the health club introduced me to the regional triathlon training group. - They have about 50 people and 10-12 of them were participating in the Oly.   I am thinking of joining their activities in the fall.

Tokyo cycling routes are almost non-existent. There are too many cars and signals and you end up eating a lot of car exhaust.    To get to some decent cycling, you probably have to drive 1-1.5 hours from downtown Tokyo.   From my house in Sendai, I can be in the rice fields within 10-15 minutes or at the bottom of the nearest mountain in 20-25.   I actually have some pretty decent routes already, but the one I found has by far the best roads and fewest cars.   

By the way - loved that video.  I had no idea that cycling was a contact sport.

Steve,

There are finally coaches out there that are coming around.  For a long time it has seemed as though I was the lone voice in the wilderness.  The thing that really saddens me is that so many USAT certified coaches are on the toys, kick, and drills bandwagon.  I really think all the toys and such are a "replacement" for not actually being there with the athlete.  My impression with respect to specifically training for a triathlon swim, and this is from chatting with people and observations over the years, is that a coach on deck that can offer stroke technique instruction is more likely to not use all the toys and specifically not use drills whereas a "remote" coach is MORE likely to encourage kicking, toys, and drills.

The simple truth in swim training is, if you want to swim fast you must swim a LOT of yards.  Not drills, not kick, not fins, SWIM.

Just my two cents.

I also have a Suunto Ambit2.  I love it!

As to your stroke count question.  Strokes per minute by itself is not very instructive.  Stroke count is a number we look at to try and determine efficiency, however we actually need a little bit more information to really answer your question.  We need to know a) how far you swam, b) how long you swam, and c) your number of strokes.  Typically when you are talking about stroke count it is in a pool so you have x strokes per length in xx seconds. From that we can determine 'distance per stroke.' DPS is another number we look at to gauge efficiency.  Using the number that you gave, here is an example and this will illustrate why we need more information.  Say as an example you swam 100 yards in 1:00 and your stroke count was 33 strokes per minute.  That works out to an incredibly high 9.09 feet per stroke.  On the other hand, say you swam 25 yards in the same 1:00 with the same stroke count of 33 SPM - that works out to a not as impressive 2.72 feet per stroke.

Another thing to consider.  Stroke count and distance per stroke are relative to the person in question.  I have long arms so my total stroke length is over 6 feet.  Someone who is not so tall may have a total stroke length of only 4 feet.  Obviously, assuming similar efficiency rates, my stroke count would be lower and my distance per stroke would be higher.

Another thing to consider is that in open water, a swimmer tends to have a bit shorter stroke and a higher turnover rate which corresponds to a higher stroke count and a reduced distance per stroke.  When a swimmer is sprinting (maximal effort) they typically have a shorter stroke and a higher turnover rate with the same impact upon stroke count and distance per stroke.

We look at stroke count and distance per stroke over time to hopefully see an improvement in the numbers as you improve.

Hope that answers some questions.

So there is a local triathlon here that I have volunteered at 4 of the last 5 years.  It's a long sprint - .6 mile swim, 20 mile bike and 4 mile run.  I've not done the race due to the swim - it's an OWS in a small manmade lake and I've not been comfortable enough with my swimming to attempt it.  I was checking the website the other day to sign up for volunteering again and this year they are doing both a long course (the usual race) and a short course.  The short course is a .3 mile swim, 15 mile bike and a 2 mile run.  I'm seriously considering signing up for the short course.  The bike and run are no problem for me and I really think I can do the swim, but it's the part that has me hesitating.  I've done 2 triathlons with OWS's (both 500m) but they were wetsuit legal, this one usually is not.  I've also done a couple of OWS practices in this lake but always with a wetsuit.  The race is less than 3 weeks away - July 13th.  I'm planning to swim 3 times a week at the pool between now and then.  I'm also volunteering at a race this weekend and hoping to possibly get in a swim at the lake there after my shift.  Would you sign up for the race?  How much of a difference is there really between swimming with a wetsuit and without one?  I really want to do this, but don't want to end up with a very short day due to the swim. 
Janet

Hey Janet,

Not to question you, but are you sure those swim distances are correct?  Even the shorter one is longer than a full Ironman swim.

Thank you Steve.  It's hell getting old and having your vision go in the toilet!

Scott - sorry for the confusion.  I should have put a "0" in front of the decimal point.  Believe me, if it was a 6 mile or 3 mile swim I wouldn't even be considering it! 

Steve - to answer your points...

1) I am very comfortable in the water and will turn on my back for a short recovery if needed.  Also, the swim course goes along the perimeter of the lake so it would be easy enough to move to a point where I could stand if I needed to (although I'm hoping to not need to).

2) The water temperature is actually the thing I'm most concerned about.  It's one of the reasons I'm going to try to get in a swim at the lake this weekend - to see if I can handle the temps without a wetsuit if the race is not wetsuit legal.  The 2 OWS tri's that I've done I wore a wetsuit for but still felt the cold, at the beginning at least - comes from doing most of my swimming in a pretty warm pool I guess.  Of course, those were both in May, not July so the water temps were pretty cold then. 

3) There is no mass start at this race, it's a time trial start off the dock so hopefully there won't be too much bumping around with other people.  I should be able to just take my time and do my own swim.  I'll be slow, but I think I can finish. 

I think right now I'm 90% sure I'm going to register but I'll wait until after this weekend to make the final decision.  Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it!
Janet

Janet,

One more point: wetsuit legal usually means you can still opt to wear a wetsuit, but are not eligible for the podium.  In addition, if the race is a qualifier for some other event, the wetsuit knocks you out of qualifying.   I say go for it.

Dan