Not phat? Phatknot SLAYER - CLOSED (Page 18)

Harvey,
I would bet you have a component of superficial venous insufficiency and get significant  improvement from external compression hose. This is based off the fact that you let your weight become excessive at one point. The same thing happens during pregnancy which is why it is very common in women. I can't tell for sure without testing. I also think this is why you see such differing viewpoints. People who have good venous return don't notice a difference and then state that it doesn't work for anybody but on the other hand you have people with poor venous return/insufficiency who have marked improvement in performance and recovery who think it should work for everybody, and you have the people in between.

Don't read me wrong. I am not against compression. I am sure it works for many  people.   30% of women and slightly less in males although probably increasing due the the obesity epidemic. I also think compression works for everybody with swollen legs for recovery although I think ice and elevation is better. If you can't ice an elevate compression is the next best thing. I personally have never had leg swelling until my IM training. Then the legs swelled like sausages. 

Supplements is not my expertise so I can only offer personal bias.

Edited by pschriver 2011-01-22 1:58 PM

Well done kate!

Thats really fascinating stuff Peter. Clearly you are a RICE guy as it comes to recovery and then you have some legitimate/serious doubts about using compression for activity. I never understood the mechanism of how compression works physiologically. I just felt like it worked at preventing calf niggles by compressing the tissue. You see I am pretty naive. Without working too hard, can you simplify why venous return so important and compression's positive effects so difficult to measure?

Whats the testing you are talking about? Is it worthwhile for the average triathlete?

Man, I took all your positive energy and had a blast working out this afternoon. Hope you all are rocking it out too.

Rode 38.25 miles today.  2000 feet of elevation.  Not a ton of climbing, but a lot more than I've done in some time.  I have a lot of work to do before June...but I'm looking forward to it!   It's so nice here.  64 degrees, sunny, not too windy.  Gorgeous!

Thanks for all of the info!

Edited by nerdjock 2011-01-22 5:33 PM

This is a better discussion over a couple of beers than me hacking away on the computer.

Healthy tissue requires blood flow which means the blood getting to the tissue rapidly (arterial) and also returning to the heart rapidly (venous). If the inflow (arterial) is limited, you get severe cramping when the oxygen (blood supply) demand is increased. When the outflow is limited you get venous stasis or pooling. This increases the acid level (decreased pH) and causes discoloration of the legs due to lysis of RBCs and staining. In 1% of people with venous insufficiency it will progress to ulceration.

There are 3 main avenues to remove the toxins released by tissue metabolism. Deep venous, superficial venous and lymphatic. I will ignore lymphatic for now because that is a whole chapter in itself. The reason compression hose work is the pressures are enough to collapse the insufficient superficial system and force the blood into the deep competent system. The best compression is gradient, where it is tighter at the foot and becomes loose towards the knee. This help force the fluids up.


The heart pumps blood through the arteries. The veins passively pump blood by multiple one-way valves in a tube that is externally compressed by muscle contractions. When the veins dilate, the valve leaflets don't touch and the pump mechanism doesn't work. This can lead to varicose veins that look like worms under the skin. (Not the spider veins that drive women crazy)

I really need my Powerpoint presentation to clear this up.

As far as testing I don't think it should be routine. It would be of interest to see if you have insufficiency but it may only occur when you are stressing  your legs and they are warm. If you feel better wearing the stockings I would wear them and skip the test. (This is coming from somebody who makes a living doing the test)

The test is a venous doppler ultrasound done in the standing position. By externally compressing the calf I can see the direction of the blood flow. It should only move toward the heart and not away. If there is reversal of flow, the vein is incompetent.



 

I've been very busy at work and resting this ITB thing so I don't flare up. I'm gonna get a roller and give that a try.There has been some very interesting discussions regarding training, recovery, and transitions.....Harvey u looked like a pro! The distance from dismount to the rack should've been included in the run! Glad everyone's gettin the miles in, I ll be back at it tomorrow. It's been in the 80's all week and I've been stuck inside!! Argghhhh!

I've had some ITB issues in the past and found that the Grid foam roller works best for me.  Hurts so much but works so well!  I make sure to stretch both sides so there's no imbalance.  For a long time, I spent most of my time stretching my right side (the painful side) and couldn't get rid of it.  Once I started stretching both sides, I was pain-free.  I highly, highly recommend the Grid. I also had PT at one point for several months...that helped too, but not as much as the Grid.

The grid it is! Did you get the trigger point DVD or book?

I didn't but I looked at some stretches online.  Pretty much I lay on my side and roll up and down on top of the Grid.  When it hurts, I try to let my body weight push down on the roller for ~45 seconds.  That works really well.  I also sit on the ground and roll my legs and booty and lower back on it.  Love that thing!  Looking forward to hearing how it works for you.  The Grid has a hard "tube" in the center so it really stretches stuff out.  It also has texture on it to mimic fingers.  It's considerably more expensive than traditional foam rollers  but lasts much longer and it's short, so it's more portable.  Maybe they should hire me to endorse them? 

Thanks a ton for that explanation Peter. I kind of feel strange now think I am venous incompetent but thats not the only thing starting to fail at this age so I guess I am not so bad off haha. Ill probably save the time/$ and just keep using them how I have been.

tri4fun73: I had a link to ITb rolling suggestions about one page back if you want to save money on the dvd. nerdjock is big on that grid roller but i am still reluctant to co-sign. I still am not sure how much good the rolling did me or if rest, reduced intensity, and/or the dynamic stretching the PT did was what did the trick. Either way you have to find the mix to get yourself back in the game so try some stuff out. The grid is probably the best rolling device out there and nerdjock swears by it so its def worth a try.

Excellent ride nerdjock! Riding hills has got to be good for your leg strength. i rode outside once this week and hit the hills. Hope to go again today and will have to bundle up (38 degrees). So jealous of you all with nicer weather. But not jealous of you in the UK or Canada right now.

Where all y'all at? When someone stops coming around, I wonder if they are ducking us for some reason haha.

Thanks for the advice.  I hope to get a trainer ride in today and will try to up the intensity. I do have a video, but it looked less fun than watching old TV shows online.  (That's part of my motivation for riding - I get to plug in my headphones and go "offline" from the family).  Usually I just feel like getting the workout in is a victory. 

Spinnerval aero-base builder for me today. Legs were pretty stiff. I considered an outdoor ride but didn't want to deal with the cold. May ride with the family after lunch if it warms up some more.

I have to vent a little about the race I did yesterday. They use gun time instead of chip times. It took me over a minute to get to the starting chute. With 1.5k people having to run though a narrow chute at the start, you would think it would be no problem to get chip times. The race is sponsored by the local track club and is part of their race series. In contrast the local triathlon timing company has chip times online by the time we get home from the race. I may be taking this too seriously but I doubt I will do any more of the races they time.

Yeah I hear that. I hate getting screwed due to that kind of timing system so I always seed myself way up there just to avoid that. Also I go by garmin time and garmin time starts when I cross the line, not when the race starts. However, youare perfectly right to be upset..

When tri-ghost and I started riding it was 37 degrees this morning. We went the whole season and IMFl without a single flat on any of our training rides. (I do use the slime tubest that rarely go flat and weigh a bit more). He flatted about 16 miles in and I was short a tube to begin with. His tube, our only tube left, was defective so we had to pack it in early and call my wife to pick us up.

At least we got some heartbeats going for a bit and can say we rode in the 30 degrees of January haha. lesson learned is to make sure you have good tubes and tires and to have good backup tubes and supplies in your gear bag. We are both contemplating updating tubes/tires annually now.

I will have to hit the trainer for that brick during the football game! Good luck getting out there everyone.

Flats suck. It's that simple. Unfortunately they come in waves. I can go for months/years without a single one then get 2-3 in a week. Good thing you had a SAG wagon one call away. I did a 4 mile death march with a bike on my shoulder about a year ago. My wife rides 650s so I always carry 2x650s and a 700 to avoid catching hell for not keeping her bike on the road.

Off topic, anyone have a prediction for the game today? My heart is with Chicago since I lived there for 6 years during training.

During college football season I play spinning games while on the trainer. 5 minutes at 10 watts above threshold every time the opposing team scores. I'm a Gamecock so I get a good workout.

I do have a mentor/coach question, My HIM plan has me doing a Bike Threshold test tomorrow. Legs feel fine today but I was way above threshold yesterday but did a recovery type spin today. Should I be rested enough to do the testing or should I chill for a couple of days and then test? 

I bet the jets at 20-1 to win the super bowl while in England. Bet shops on every corner on the high street nearly. My gut says nyj/gb wins but chi is at home and they are playing more consistent offense with a strong defense (peppers is a game changer). I'd give them a very good chance to win a closer game. Shanks told me I still have to test all three sports this week so it'll be some high intensity and low volume efforts in slaytown. I've got to decide whether to do my brick on the trainer/tread later or give it a miss and be more ready for the week of hell

Ideally you go into testing rested and full of zest. I, however, mostly don't accept a bunch of rest and, get some caffeine, and let it fly. I'm leaning towards chilling this afternoon so I can re-charge for tomorrow. Shanks usually gives me about a week of cut back volume workouts to prepare me but I resist due to my OC symptoms haha. I guess I'd ask youhow sore you feel today and Monday before deciding (DOMS).

sorry that i have been absent but my house has resembled the sick unit-both of my kids were sick my wife and then my sil who was sick came over to join the festivities. i played nurse dad to everyone and luckily i am not feeling the effects of being around everyone all week long. i did get a run in on friday and this morning but i think that i will be back on track this week. i hope that everyone is well happy and training everyday.

Will - I feel for you.  Hopefully you will get some good karma points out of the deal.  I feel like between the illnesses and snow days I'm lucky to get anything done here.

I did a trainer ride today and tried out the video that came with my trainer.  I lasted 4 minutes.  I was so insanely bored that it felt like an eternity.  So I just tried to pick up the pace from my usual dawdle and it was much tougher that's for sure.  Then my 3 year old came in and saw me riding.  He watched for a moment then said  "Mommy you're riding really slow."  Anyone want to buy a 3 year old? 

Oh, man!  Me, too!  There's a BT thread about that right now:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=239953&start=1 

interesting...

on the subject of compression... has anyone worn cw-x tights??
i'm tempted....
(they look comfy!!)

Which video was it? My wife got a free Spinnerval #27 Threshold and Sufferfest with her new trainer . It is one of the toughest in the series and not one I do on a weekly basis.

Edited by pschriver 2011-01-23 6:56 PM

& last week was decent for workouts:
swim: 2 for 2 complete
bike: 2 for 2 complete
run: 3 for 3 complete
yoga/pilates: 0 for 1 (oops!)

but this weekend was an epic fail.
i got scared by the windchill & bailed on this morning's run...
so far, i'm behind. but i'm hoping i'll be able to sneak a run in at some point to make up for it!

& in random and experimental news.... i picked up a $2 bike light set at the dollar store
hopefully that will enable me to (legally) bike to & from work a few times as soon as the snow melts and i get up the nerve to see that one through!!

Hi all,

Sorry I have MIA ... it was the work thing again. Damn work ... always getting in the way!! If it wasn't for the money thing ...

Last week was pretty sh*t ... I managed a swim and that's about it. I was pretty peeved with myself for being so slack and not getting off my butt, but then I just put it behind me (I can't change it) and have moved on. I've promised myself I'll do better this week.

I already have.

I've been catching up on the thread and, oh my, the depth of info on here has my head spinning. I feel way out of my league ... For what it's worth, I have some compression calf-guards and I love them. I wear CompressSport and I wear them after a run or a bike. Usually to bed. I don't know if it's all in my head (probably is) but they work for me!

I also have a pair of 2XU compression shorts, but I am less sold on them. Can take them or leave them. When I went into the store to buy them I spoke to the chick there (whom I know) and told her what I wanted ... the conversation went like this:

Me: I want to buy some compression shorts. I'll give them a go.
Her: Okay, what brand do you like.
Me: Er, I don't know, what do you recommend?
Her: Well, what do you wear now?
Me: I don't. I don't own any.
Her: You don't have ANY compression gear at all? (looks incredulous!)
Me: Er (feeling silly), no, I don't.
Her: What do you do to recover?
Me: Eat food and drink water. You know, like in the olden days?

She looked at me then and realised what I silly conversation it was and we both burst out laughing!

Hope everyone is well and happy. Have a good week.

Em

Great to see you guys and gals fighting through the family sicknesses, weather, work demands, etc! Thats life and we have to do the best we can with what we got but keep on plugging through any and all obstacles. Shout outs to all of you who are checking in! Don't feel intimidated if we meander into technicality once in awhile. We can discuss anything here.

For me, this weekend was pretty tame training wise too. With testing in all three sports on the docket this week, I probably will benefit from the reduction in fatigue. Today is the 1000 yard TT in the pool so Shanks can start giving me properly timed intervals for swim workouts.

I hate this test because I feel like I am going to drown. My best time ever for 1000 was 18 mins flat so I hope to be around that time. I just swam 1000 as a warmup as 18:58 so I figure to be close to low to mid 18s. I'll let you all know how it goes. Sadly my 11 year old just swam 100 @1:16 and my 7 year old swam 25 at :26 at the local meet. My best time ever in the 100 is 1:29 and I am hitting 1:39 pretty regularly now even with hard efforts. For those of you keeping track at home, that means they are both faster than me haha.

I'll let you know how it goes here. You let me know how it goes for you.

It's Real Ride - Race Day.  I think it's produced by CycleOps.  I knew the family was on the way back and there was a time crunch and just didn't have the patience to try it out.  A better day might bring better results.  Also a different series as I know lots of people here like the Spinervals - though anything called Sufferfest makes me skittish.

I did a timed 1000 yd swim this weekend too, but I was nowhere near that fast.  Came in at 20:45, which is acceptable as far as I am concerned.  For now anyway.  I have so much room to improve my biking that I know that needs to be the focus for a while.