Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 19)

DONTO -

Love it!: 

 ".....I was just a small naturally aspirated 4 cyclinder engine before with a peaky torque and power band.........Now I'm like a turbocharged 4 cylinder engine of the same size but with a nice wide and higher torque and power band."  

Expanding the "usable cadence range" is key, and with it goes the usable gearing range --- all those sweet options!  I just love "edgedancing" where, as you say, changing the gears maintains the power range. 

Damnable cold weather here keeps me from ridng outside, and that's where this whole topic is teasing me to go.  I so envy you and Jason and Wayne and others who live in sunny and warm climates!

AMY -

No, you didn't miss it.  And to prove I'm not (any longer.....) avoiding the topic, here goes.  (But first, I hope your interest isn't due to any concerns you hace for your own hips!)

Stages in my hipstory:

1. On a flight to Spain in late '08, I developed a real soreness in my left "groin".  It was exacerbated on a bus in Spain....and I brought it home with me.
2. It was only a problem on long drives, say 2-3 hours range.  That is I would feel the soreness at about the 2-3 hour mark, and while stopping and walking for even a minute would chase it away, it would return in time.  This time it took for the soreness to set in gradually got shorter and shorter over the next year or so.
3. No massaging of it in the car would help.  This baffled me, as I thought it was groin, and that being soft tissue I thought I could give it relief; other groin-based problems over the years had been helped by deep, prodding self-massage.
4. Driving back from DE after a race in Sept '10, it became a problem about every 25-35 minutes.  That was a real red flag, and it got me to my sports doctor who thought it might be hip-related.
5. After a fine indoor-riding off-season, I wnet out on my first outdoor ride in late march '11 ---- and it was sore within about 25 minutes,  and not only was it sore in the groin aread, but it was "transferring" to a small area just below, and on the inside, of the left knee; down there it felt very much nerve-related, kind of sharp and prickly  This continued with EVERY outside ride over the next couple of months, although sometimes the first discomfort would be below the knee, and THEN express itself in the groin. 
6. Along about April/May/June of '11 some of my runs would be puntuated with a "give", either in the groin area or closer to the front-outside of the hip.  They never actually hurt, and only affected my gait for a second or so, but they were very unsettling.  My sports doc ordered xrays which showed nothing, and he then arranaged a consult with a hip specialist for purposes, possibly, of a cortisone injection. 
7. First cortisone in mid-June '11, and while very unpleasant* it provided some relief for about six weeks.  I then had another in late August '11, which got me through the season, but by this time last year it was beginning to be more of a problem again.   At the laste August one, he ordered a MRI for me, but that would take at least six months to happen (it ended up being clsoer to nine months!!!)
8. In mid-Dec I had a $400 injection of Durolane, which is, in simple terms, a "lubricant" for the joint.  While initially disappointed that it wasn't a "miracle" cure, it turned out to be pretty good until about a month ago -- so close to ten months of just long-drive discomfort -- and keeping me under about 90 minutes on the bike.  It was NEVER a run problem after those "catching" episodes in late spring '11.
9. The MRI showed a "complex degenerative tear" of the left labrum, which is the cartilage "collar" around the hip socket into which the ball of the femur inserts.   It showed little or no cartilage from "12-3 o'clock" (use your imagination to visualize this), and my hip guy figured it had been deteriorating sienc echildhood.  he asked if I was a "jumper" as a kid, meaning lot sof jumping from heights, and in fact i was.  I cannot remmebrr any "episodes" of extreme pain from landing wrong, and I never experienced a traumatic tearing of it during sports, so it is considered degenerative.
10. A few weeks ago it staretyd to act up, and a first --- I could feel it on each step of three consecutive 8-10km runs.  This led me to hip guy for another injection, this time a combined cortisone along with a different and less-expensive lubricant; I think it is gradually beginning to help.
11. I have a consult with a hip surgery guru in about two weeks, and that unappealing topic of course will come up.  The problem with labral surgery is the recovery time, which can be from as little as four months to as much as nine months; this could kill as season, or at least an off-season.  Gulp!  I'm hoping I can keep it at bay with sporadic injections, but those are not nice at all ----  * long needle inserted into he most tender area of the high-thigh groin, then worked in some -- and then plunged into the ball-and-socket joint.  I have now had five injecctions there, and the contact point is both nerve and bone, so it creates a real "jolt".  And with the lubricants, it is a big dosage with a slow release, so the needle is there for about 90 seconds.  I merged from the last session (two injections within five minutes of each other) feeling really drained and almost shaken; I am in ZERO hurry to have another!!!

SO!  It has affected my ability to drive long distances without discomfort, and also my ability to CYCLE more than about 50km.  This has brought my half-iron career to a (temporary??) halt, but it hasn't really affecetd my ability to train for olys.  And I have to say that it was far easier to exceed 60 minutes in a ride this past season than it was in 2011, although part of that is management in the very sinple form of getting out of the saddle at the first sign of a soreness in the hip joint area, or the sharp/prickly stuff below the knee.  (Sitting at the computer is also a small issue ---- as it is becoming right now!!)

Overall, i have been lucky.  Paula Findlay, a top pro triathlete in Canada,  had her Olympic dreams (just this past summer) crushed primarily from a degeneartively torn labrum, and at leat mine hasnt gotten to that point.  (Admittedly, her volume and intensity of workk exceeds mine by about 800%.)

Again, i hope your interest in this isn't due to worries of your own -- and if it is, please PM me about it.  I have tried to be very detailed Just In Case you are personally concerned, however.  

This is my long-term most worrisome injury.  I have had a tibial stress fracture, and a torn meniscus, and had a neuroma removed from my right foot, and the usual collection of overuse injuries from one who (a) has done this stuff for a long time, and (b) who hasn't always trained wisely, and (c) who isn't all that "bionic" -- but with any of those it was a matter of proper rest and rehab and all.  The labrum, though, will NOT get better with rest, and only surgery can repair it.  It may not get all that much worse.....other than contributing with osteoarthritis of the hip,  That's why surgery will probably happen sometime within the next year or two.

The irony is that, as a highly active person, I cannot make a case that I am a high-priority case for sooner surgery!  If I could only stagger along with a cane or walker, and howling all the while, i could have surgery much sooner.  But as a triathlete who can still SBR and do myrid other things --- I am not especially needy!  I've also been very fortunate that even as it has blossomed and gotten slightly more probablematic, it hasn't affected my speed either on the bike or when running.  That is an odd little blessing, i guess, huh?  WHEW!!!!

I think that covers it!  (Aren't you sorry you asked?)

QUINCY -

More cool questions form you!  I'm leaving for the evening in just a few minutes, but let me just do a quick hit on a couple of your thoughts.

The "spiffy 95-100" number is spiffy only if you can make it work for you!  DONTO said something about a atailwind helping him work at 100, and the same goes for me.  I said somewhere today that I am best at 89-93, and as that works really well for me, I stopped a few years ago trying to get better at pushing a consistent cadence higher than that.  It seems to work well for me in terms of running off the bike, and I acceot that with gratitude and ask no more of my legs and cardio! 

I read somewhere not too long ago that Jordan Rapp works at about 80rpm, and I think it was Jason who said that FredD does 70 across all distances.  (For both, they must be amazingly strong to push the gears required to go as fast as they do at those cadences.  Mercy!)

The chicken and egg question is a good one, and I am still thinking about it even as I type.  In my case, it was learning to ride at that 89-93, and always against watt-producing "resistance" that got me to be a stronger and faster cyclist.  There's a bit more to it than that, but there it is in a nutshell.  Higher cadence + aggressive shifting -------> increased power and speed.

Good list of future topics, and yes -- a week worth of transitions alone!  (FWIW, over the past 2-3 years my T2 has gotten slower.  Ack!  T1 remains real good, but T2 is pedestrian.  Ptooey.)

Gotta go!

QUINCY -

More follow-up thoughts on the idea of "complex":

Nutshell #1 -- Training is more complex for short-course, as for people who are competitive they will need to judiciously add speed components.  Most long-distance people, especially for irons, will never feel strong enough to use speed in the race.  The capability to use speed in a hlaf-iron increases quite a bit, but it still carries risks.  So, long-distance training can be done quite well for most age-groupers by focusing on building endurance -- far less complex than working in speed sessions, IMHO.

Nutshell #2 --  Nutrition is far less complex for short-course.  I think the group here hit on sprint nutrition (should probably return to it, though), and at least for me, oly iisn't much different.  But it becomes a whole other world for half-irons and irons, as you know.  In fact, i can say that it my fairly prolific half-iorn "career" between01 and '10......I never really got a solid handle on my nutrition.  At least nothing carved in stone, nothing I would take to the bank!

GANG!

I've also thought some about various triathlon tenets that could be considered "orthodoxies".  It might be illuminating to get a list of these going........and then see how many apply to each of us...........and how we (as individuals) think we should be addressing them.  Maybe?

A starter list of triathlon "orthodoxies":

• Midfoot-striking while running, with heel-striking less desirable.
• Carbon-frame bikes "better" than aluminum.
• Steep-angle seat better than a more "slack" position.
• Carbo-loading the night before a race is important.
• Bilateral breathing is more economical and strategic than one-side-only breathing.
• Protein sources added back to the system within 90 minutes of finishing a race or workout is essential.
• Sockless running!  Sockless riding!
• High elbows on the swim pull -- highly desirable.
• High elbows on recovery -- highly desirable.
• Slight forward lean while running has several benefits.
• Aero helmets enhance speed more than traditional vented helmets.
• Drafting on the swim is worth pursuing.

I'll leave it there for now, and welcome any other additions -- especially if questions or concerns arise from them!

AND PLEASE NOTE --- I'm just doing a list here, and not necessarily espousing the use of any of the items.  I will say, however, that I have experiemented with all of them, and some of them I use religioulsy and successfully --- while others just either fail me, or as is more commonly the case, I fail them!

TIFFANY -

The last paragraph of your post about your back is loaded with things to think about.  I'm not sure I have any definitive answers for you, but maybe a few things to think about.

The most intriguing part is where you say that running slowly seems to cause more pounding than when you do interval or tempo runs.  My decent guess on this is that when you dio the speed stuff, you do what most of us do -- assume a more midfoot- or forefoot-striking stride.  So much of how we view speed is to achieve a solid "toe-off", and one of the things that helps this is to lean a bit forward when we run.  (Could any of that be you?)

Conversely, running more slowly will have us "backing-off" some --- neither leaning forward slightly nor landing on our midfoot.  Depending on the degree that one lands on their heels, or even just further back than the midfoot, it can effectively send 'shock-waves" upwards and cause problems with knees, hips -- and backs.

Two thoughts, then: 

(1) Find out a few basic pointers about Chi Running, or read what is on the website for Newton running shoes (www.newtonrunning.com).  (I will get the website for Chi later, or you can google it.)   The off-season is a great time to play around with your gait some, but whatever you do -- DO IT GRADUALLY!!!  ask me more about this later.

(2) For a while, try to get New Orleans 70.3 out of your mind and just focus on shorter runs -- the ones that don't hurt your back!  I hear you on your concerns about not being able to sustain your fast-run pace,  but I think your goals now are (a) to return to running without hurting, and (b) to develop a running technique that works, both in terms of efficiency and injury-prevention.

As for "lengthening and softening" your stride, yes to the latter and maybe not to the former.  If you get to Chi or Newton, you will read about some of the benefits to having a shorter and more compact stride.  I worked for quite some time to develop that in myself, and it has been golden.  It is much more controllable, I have very few joint injuries, and i DO feel as if I run very "softly".  I can't say I ever felt that when trying to assume a long stride -- although i never had a really long stride, anyhow.

A short and compact stride can feel like a shuffle, but that is kind of a matter of degree and self-perception.  I know what you're saying, because my own gait is kind of "low", but when you study adult triathletes right up to the best of the best, you will see lots who have a very low, quick, compact stride. 

As for shoes --- tough call.  This is a very contentious area, as many shoe gurus feel that most "conventional" running shoes are way too over-engineered, and encourage and perpetuate faulty running form, and may even lead to injuries when on the wrong feet.  So, it is quite common for people to think they need more cushioning, and then they buy a model that brags about its superb cushioning...........only to find out that it is a terrible shoe for them due to the foot type the shoe is designed for.  (Do you know your foot type?  Over-pronator?  Under-pronator?  High arch?  Low arch?  No arch??)

As a follow-up to those foot-type questions, what make and model do you currently run in?  If you can tell me your foot type and what running shoe you use.....I can maybe make a suggestion or two.  ALSO!  How much mileage is one your current shoes, and even more-importantly, what wear patterns are becoming obvious when you look at the soles?

Let me know about this and that, okay?  And think about doing several weeks of shorter runs at your faster pace -- the one that makes your back happy!

Just did another 5K today in pursuit of getting below 8 m/m.  Didn't happen.  

A bit chilly at 38F this morning and a bit of a cold or something, but felt ok during the run.  I even managed to start off the first mile at ~7:32.  Just couldn't finish it off.  I finished at 24:57, 8:02 m/m.

I did manage to PR by a whopping 2 seconds according to the race data from both races.  So, it wasn't a complete loss.

I changed from running shorts and tech t-shirt to tri shorts (thanks Steve) and a long sleeve cotton t-shirt (don't have a long sleeve tech yet).  I was surprised that other than my fingers I felt fine.  I was expecting to feel rather chilly, but didn't.  Waiting and warming up I had a hoodie sweatshirt and sweatpants.

I got robbed at the awards!  They did 10 year blocks and then 40-98.  I came in second for M45-49 (the data's already online), but 6th for M40-98.  That's fine, I just laughed when I heard it.  There was only 118 people in the run.  My goal was to break 8m/m not to place in the AG.  Unfortunately I missed my goal by 10 seconds.

Now I know that ~40F isn't so bad.  Some lightweight glove liners might help, but otherwise it's fine.  Yet another benefit of this morning's race.

WAYNE -

No, it certainly was NOT a complete loss!  No race, hardly, is a complete, loss, and I see several positives in yours: the PR!; successful experience with now clothes; how it feels to flirt with a fast pace, as in your first mile; the inching-ever-closer to the sub8m/m; getting a new "standard" of what you can accept from cold.  All in all, a great day for you!

My former coach used to set the odd workout for me where the goal was to exceed a previous time by a second.  That could be a race, it could be the last of a repeat series, it could be the second half of an out-and-back ride or run.  It was justa ll about one second, taking whatever effort was required.  So for you to PR by two seconds is admirable, and it will sound even better to you when you multiply that sor of improvement over, say, a dozen 5km races.  But I think we both know that by the time you do another dozen 5kms -- or even half-a-dozen of 'em -- you will be significantly better-trained so as to eclipse the two seconds of today's race and PR.

That's kind of stinky about having that last age-group extend to the skies.  It ignores the fact that some older guys are whippets, and for the older guys who aren't -- it is really crappy that they are up against those truly studly age groups of 40-44, 45-49, and 50-54, where SO many guys still have all their chops.

SO -- congratulations on placing SECOND in M45-49, one of the still-studly "seasoned-guys" age groups!! 

I will admit I have not been fully keeping up on all the posts... so if this has been discussed in some form, please tell me, and I will go in search of it!  (Really!)  I'm thinking I'd like to work towards running at least 4 times a week.  (Currently I'm still in the phase of just getting back into all 3 sports.)  Question is, how should I do those 4 runs?  At the moment, I'm thinking I will be running once during the week (Tues/Wed), and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday.  With that, I'm thinking something like:

Tues/Wed: ~60 min, with 800/1600 repeats?

Friday: ~60min, with some sort of tempo, but not sure what kind... maybe 2-3 miles at HM pace? (Is that too slow?)

Saturday: comfy 3-5 miles?

Sunday: 8-12 miles, alternating between LSD one week, then the following week maybe something like with 4 miles of "marathon pace" or something.

Thoughts?

Congrats!  Missing the 8m/m by 2sec is a bummer on the one hand (soooo close), but encouraging, I would think - you know you can do it.  Are you training specifically for the distance, or racing different distances and seeing what you can do?

Getting the clothes right is tough (stuggled with same for a HM last week), but makes all the difference - even more so for training, I find.  I can gut out being uncomfortable on race day, but Sunday morning in the sleet and cold instead of making waffles for the kids can be a tougher one!  With the right clothes, I seem to be able to motivate a bit earlier and still make waffles…  

I have a pair of knit gloves and a hat made of a techy feeling material from Mizuno.  Really like them, as they keep my hands/head warm, but wick and don't make me crazy hot as I warm up (and are light enough to stuff in a vest pocket or such if it does warm up).  Just got them recently and they are a huge upgrade from my old cotton cross country skiing gloves and a thick cotton cap...

In the REALLY cold weather, I break out my medium-cold biking gloves (windproof) - they work well running on the cold days, as I don't run as fast as I bike… (or bike as slow as I run?).

What distance?  Sprint or Oly?  Or those with maybe a HIM?  I think that might make a difference as to length and intensity, if not frequency.

Good question... I have a half marathon in the back of my mind, so I guess this question would be for that... which leads me to another question... how many miles per week would be ideal for over the summer, at which time it will be for a tri 5K run.  So really, the winter running would hopefully provide a good base for when it comes time to train specifically for a 5K!

Hey guys, I know there were a few of you who were interested in AG nationals, so I thought I'd share what I found when I was googling around.... now I wouldn't take this as an official thing, but on another USAT page, it shows that nationals is scheduled for the weekend of August 10 in Milwaukee... if you go to the PRESENTED AT section...

http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/multisport-awards/2012-multisport-awards/jeff-jewell-spirit-award.aspx

Hmmm…  So, take this advice with a chunk o' salt (it's worth what you paid), as I'm new to balancing three sports.  With that disclaimer, here goes:

I just finished the tri season and jumped in to a HM program.  I used the Higdon one (easily googleable), mostly the advanced version, but folded some of the intermediate in.

The way I approached it, except the last two weeks, was to take the light days (2-4 mile easy days) and substitute swims or rides in for those, with the occasional double putting a swim or bike with an easy run.  The last two weeks, I just did the run workouts (OK, in the penultimate week I threw a swim in, but stuck with the program otherwise).  I felt that I didn't lose too much in the other two sports, as measured by how I felt this past week after the race, and it DEFINITELY helped my running a lot.

I pushed into the program a bit late, picking up at like week 6 or 7, but it was about right where I should have been for that, given the end of my tri season training (took a slow week after the last race and then jumped into week 7 I think - a little foggy on timeline as the race I was shooting for was sold out and I had one week less to train through the 12 week program for another local HM that had spots).  So, it worked and I felt pretty good in the HM.

Long and short, I think what YOU outlined above is very similar to the meat of the Higdon program.  However, those runs are spaced a bit differently.  You suggest T/W with speed intervals, then a Friday/Saturday/Sunday block of runs.  If you're going to keep other workouts in the mix, I would suggest keeping the 4 types of runs you have (speed, tempo, easy and long) or perhaps doing speed on Tuesday, easy on Thursday, a "pace" run on Saturday and a long run on Sunday.  That would give you time to recover from the run specific work, still get the right combo of workouts in for the run/race and then be able to do some other sports in the mix.

Just my tuppence, but I think you have the right idea - at least from what worked for me.  I monkeyed with the plan as I went through it, and I think you could add spice into it as needed...

As for whether or not it would provide a good base to then go for 5k specific race work afterward, I have NO idea.  But, I'm trying the same thing - so we'll either both ROCK IT next season or have to both work harder to keep up.

Let us know how it goes!

Matt

SAMANTHA -

Remember -- no need to keep of get caught up with postings here.  If you have the time and energy to do so, then that is some degree of an ideal, I guess; otherwise, just do what you can!  Some people jump back in with nary a backwards galnce, while others skim along and "cherry-pick the posts that interest them the most.  Your choice, always!

MATT gave you a great answer to your 4x weekly running plan, and his thoughts not only come from his own (recent; hot-off-the-press!) experience, but are also through the filter of the estimable Hal Higdon.  Not bad sources there!

From my perch (on a lower branch of the recent-experience tree), I think your plan looks fine.  Maybe ideally you wouldn't want three days straight, but for sure lots of time-crunched runners take that approach -- and prosper fully!  in fact, many fairly serious runners do 6x a week, and as long as they can do that without injury, then all the more power to them.  It would be great is you can manage the F/Sa/Su trinity, and the only way to find out is to attempt it.  Chaaaarge!!!!

That said, if you could make every few weeks one in which you switch Fr to Th, that would keep you fresher going into the Saturday and Sunday efforts.  Again, MATT has a good model of how that would work, so that might be something to keep in your back pocket if a Thursday ever frees its elf fo you.

Otherwise, you have covered the bases really well in terms of both variety and how it is spaced.  Saturday as a calm between the two relative storms of FR and Su should serve you well and set you up nicely for the long run of Sunday.  I don't see hwy it wouldn't work for you, and as I said above -- you won't know fro sure until you attempt it.

One final quetsion comes from looking at Friday's question of "Is that too slow?"  I guess I want to know which aspect makes you wonder about "too slow".  If what you arer aiming for is 5kms, then 2-3 miles at HM pace is too slow; probably the same dfor 10km race-training.  But if your sights are on another HM, then 2-3 miles at HM race-pace is about right, at least for starters.  (My guess is that before long into this plan, you can do either longer at HM pace, or at the very least fit in a couple or three sections of 2-3 miles at HM pace on the Sunday long run as it brushes up against 12 miles or so.

Don't know if any of you are familiar with Turbo Fire but its Beachbody workout in the same family as insanity, etc.

I did the 5 day Inferno plan and today I ran 4 miles non stop at a pace I've never been able to hold for that long a distance.  And no usual ITB soreness afterwards. 

THANKS Matt and Steve!

Truth be told, I have never really looked at Hal Higdon because I just had it in my mind that his plans were for those who were true beginners at running.  But I took a look at the advanced one, and thanks for that.  I like following plans, even if it's simple, so that may be a good one to look at.

So Matt, are you saying that you were running 3 times a week?  I am actually having problems wrapping my head around *planning* to run just 4 times a week.  Over the summer I would always try to run at least 5 times a week (although sometimes it would end up at 4), but I would never intend on running just 4.  It is a mental thing for me, but I just feel like I would need to run more!  (Well, technically speaking, I feel this way about all 3 sports!)

As for the Fri Sat Sun thing, it is mainly a time thing, but then I justify it by saying, well, I'm getting used to running on tired legs...???  It does sound good to do one on Thursday every now and then though. (If I even attempt to keep up this F/Sa/Su thing. )

I am still trying to decide, but I think I may do the half marathon "focus"... And I do like that the Hal Higdon plan includes the 800s and 1600s and the pace to do them at... After my half marathon, I'll have a good 5-6 weeks or so to be able to get in 5k specific runs before my first tri which is in May... and after that I haven't found any June triathlons I want to do as of yet, so it may be a good chunk of time before another triathlon so I will have time to work on my run.

I'm not completely familiar with it, but I'd guess just based on what you're saying that it can be seen as a form of strength training which in general is probably good for running!  Which is yet another reason I'm focusing on strength training this winter as well.  I just think it is good to strengthen those secondary smaller muscles that you may not really work with just running or biking.  So doing a workout like that gives your primary muscles more support to help prevent injuries... I'd say!

I did the last half of the advanced plan, and found it hard enough - although my slow runs are just a bit faster than suggested (I have trouble with really slow running) - maybe a minute off my target race pace or a bit faster.

I ran about 5 times a week, but one of them was usually an easy run.  The other two days had biking and swimming, and I'd double up maybe one/two other days.  The last two weeks, I ran every day except the last two days prior to the race (taper - although I think I might have done a 2 miler the day prior to loosen up - I'll check) and only did one swim.  It was the longest I'd gone without riding my bike since I bought it in April, and it was weird doing just one sport - but I could definitely feel the improvement as I pushed at just running those two weeks (or most of two weeks, with the taper being in there).

So, I ran not every day, but close.  My speedwork was Tuesday. I did a tempo run on Thursday. A race pace run Saturday and a long run on Sunday.  I'd usually get an easy run in on either Monday or Wednesday (or both a couple weeks), but tried to take Friday off of running so I could push on the race pace Saturday and go long Sunday.  Swimming felt like a rest day, as did riding (unless I was going for a punishing ride with friends - you know how that can go).

You have more time than I did, it seems, so you might want to vary this.  I was kind of making it up as I went, trying to get enough mileage in for a decent showing at the HM.  YMMV!

Exactly 1 year ago my wife was primed to PR a HM but she severely sprained/torn ligaments in her ankle.  As soon as the doc gave her the OK to start weight bearing exercises she started P90X and did as much of it as she could for the 12 weeks.  Once she was able to start running again she was amazed at how much strength and fitness she had and has been on a terror lately with the run training for her HM in 2 weeks.  She wants to do Insanity after the winter run season is over.

SHANA -

Welcome back!  I'd gotten worried about where you had gotten to, but it seems you were caught up in TurboFire's "tough-love" arms!  I am totally unfamiliar with most of that world of "cross-training", and a fairly quick romp through vearious websites didn't help me a whole lot more!

However, I would not sell short the benefits you felt, based on your run, from 5-Day Inferno.  I am definietley not surprised that the ITB felt better, simply becasue you were doing all sorts of work that would strengthen it and stretch it in ways that aren't exactly by-products of "conventional" training.

I've heard other success stories from triathletes who have spent varying parts of their off-seasons doing similar programs, and certainly DONTO's account above of his wife's success can be added to that collection.  And for whatever reason, congrats on that scintillating run -- you sure should be pleased! 

Steve,

Wow, no wonder you were avoiding the question   What a bummer, I'm very sorry to hear that all of your research, trial and error and attempted fixes have led you to the possibility of surgery.  Please keep us updated on what happens with the appointment in a few weeks.  Thank you for the great info on what is probably not THAT uncommon of an injury among athletes, especially those who jump.  And no, my interest was not related to any hip issues of my own.

You gave me a different perspective on injuries as I read about all the things you have endured as a long time athlete who is over 40.  I suppose if we continue on this journey of endurance athletics that injuries are par for the course.  I have slowly began to realize that the key is not avoiding them, just minimizing them!