Can o' Worms (Page 2)

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2005-12-07 11:50 AM
in reply to: #301000

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms
But Imperialism is at the root. A lesson for our current administration, I think.

Renee - 2005-12-07 11:00 AM

Nahh... I blame the Spanish, Portuguese, English, the greedy, the ruling elitists, the clerics, the opportunists, and the military that have always pursued their own agendas, stability be damned.

The Epic of Latin America, by John Crow. Read it.

2005-12-07 11:59 AM
in reply to: #300938

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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms
Renee - 2005-12-07 9:25 AM

Hang on a sec. You can't point to a 30 year period and say that it's to blame for 500 years worth of politico-socio-economic dysfunction in South America.

South America's history goes back 500 years. Their history of military coups/overthrows/political instability extends further back than the entire USA history, beginning to present.

While the 1900s saw very ugly interventions/meddling by the US (and United Fruit), and the 60s/70s/80s were particularly ugly, South America has been a political and economic mess for 400 years previous, going all the way back to when Spain got its first foothold/neck choke and was killing indiginous peoples en masse. The US was used by the ruling class just as much as the ruling class was used by the US.

The US didn't create the dysfunctions found in South America.



Ay Renee...   the intervention of foreign countries in Latin america specially Central america has been present since their inception as countries...  as far as 1855, just a few years after the indepence of central America from Span in 1821 William Walker entered Nicaragua.... remember him...     
In 1903 with the beginning of the construction of the Panama Canal.... when Colombia refused to grant land for the construction of the Panama Canal, the US financed a separatist revolution that led to the formation of Panama..  you should know this...

1909 The invasion of US forces in the Port of Bluefields in nicaragua....  in support of a conservative revolt....

And what about the corporate armies that took land from the peasants and converted them into multinationals....  take the united fruit company for instance.....   have you forgotten that?
 
I can go on and on about this, but I won't...   arguments like this feed the egos, and nerves of the people and the cycle of violence never ends..  This is only my opinion... you obviously have yours....  .

I don't intent to say that the US created the so called Mess in Central America....  but you should know that our poor countries could not finance, support and much less afford the revolutions that took place in such places..   yes greedy politicians and fanatics have been the driving force of the politics in Central America...  but at the end of the day.....   all of them have been in somebodies payrall....    reember noriega ?




2005-12-07 12:28 PM
in reply to: #301067

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms

To say the US created the mess that is Latin America (South America and Central America) is to ignore 500 years of history.

As I clearly stated, the US has 100 years of sin in Latin America but Latin America - the conquered, Europeanized Latin America, that is - has been around for 500 years. Latin American history is riddled with military despots - one after another after another after another - all to eager to violently take control and plunder the country for their own personal gain. Find another scapegoat for Latin America's volatile and bloody history.

Latin America's biggest collective sin is it's lack of respect for and commitment to impersonal law. Latin Americans have a great love for personal law (bribery and corruption is endemic) and it is the single most critical factor contributing to it's volatile history, IMO. The Epic of Latin America makes a great case for this.



Edited by Renee 2005-12-07 12:36 PM
2005-12-07 12:46 PM
in reply to: #301099

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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms
Renee - 2005-12-07 11:28 AM

As I clearly stated, the US has 100 years of sin in Latin America but Latin America - the conquered, Europeanized Latin America, that is - has been around for 500 years. Find another scapegoat for Latin America's volatile and bloody history.



Renee.... the comflicts that you refer to for 500 years was to fight the occupation and people to become self ruled.. The US did it in the war of indepence, so did most Latin American countries.. The conquered Latin America was at war for self-determination.. After the they won their liberty and became free countries.... for most in 1821, that would have been the end of the war right? Wrong... From that moment my friend.... other most powerful nations have used us a pawns in a chess of game....

again... I am not saying the US created the mess... Just as other superpowers in the past, they only fueled the unrest to their advantage...

Check this out
end of conversation... now back to Kerry....



Edited by velasqu7 2005-12-07 12:48 PM
2005-12-07 12:52 PM
in reply to: #301126

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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms

The nations of Latin America have a long, bloody and repetitive history of violent overthrows. Military dictators have often led these overthrows. It's so common throughout their history that it seems almost impossible to believe.

2005-12-07 12:59 PM
in reply to: #299947

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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms

As far as what boloticians say and the validity of it... I think we can all agree here that anything said by them is about as reliable as asking an inmate if he's guilty.

South America? Well, that's a little off topic for this thread and I don't know anything about it anyway.

What I do know about is how news is distorted. I've been a police officer for almost 13 years and one of the things I was really suprised about was the level of inaccuracies reported as fact in local news stories. Almost any event can be contorted and reported in a way to bolster or weaken the reporter's chosen agenda. Also, remember that reporters are almost always obtaining their information 3rd hand which means there is someone else's influence present in the telling even before the news got their hands on the information.

After a while (and even now) I tend to only watch the news if I'm in it and then only to enjoy the comedy of the reporting. Unless you were there you really have no way of knowing what actually happened without someone's influence bending the facts one way or the other.

My experience is limited to local events for the most part but I am absolutely positive that when this is taken to the global level the amount of distortion is amplified equally.



Edited by Shaved_Wookie 2005-12-07 1:00 PM

2005-12-07 1:12 PM
in reply to: #301141

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Subject: RE: Can o' Worms
Shaved_Wookie - 2005-12-07 1:59 PM
My experience is limited to local events for the most part but I am absolutely positive that when this is taken to the global level the amount of distortion is amplified equally.



I agree. Of course in the case of SBVT, it was a group of scumbags who deliberately set about destroying a man's reputation. I will refrain from pointing out any ironies with this strategy as it applies to any opponent he may have had as I am afraid of being sucked into the morass of a US political "discussion".
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