Christie vows to ban Mary Jane (Page 2)

I think you gain some measure of control just by legalizing them.  You can't look at it as a money making, or tax revenue, venture.  The price has to be CHEAP so as to completely dismantle any idea of a black market trade.  It's different than marijuana.....marijuana can be used to raise revenues.  Marijuana is NOT a problem....hard drugs are a HUGE problem and it will take some very forward thinkers to get a handle on the trade.  First and forermost, you take the money out of it......that will solve many initial problems.  There can be no ego in this by the govt. or any other entity......it's treating sick people, NOT criminals.. 

So what you're saying is that it can never work... haha   j/k

So for those who are for decriminalizing drugs (which I have no problem with), are you for accountability in the crimes committed during use of said drugs?

One of the biggest issues I have is with drunk drivers getting a slap on the wrist and then later killing someone.  I think that if you use said drug and kill someone or steal from someone or ..., you should be put in jail.  Maybe you need rehab as well, but you should also pay the price for the crime you commit.  

The fact that your addicted is not my issue, it is yours and should not be used as an excuses like insanity is used in murder cases.  Insanity often is not the fault of the person, but becoming addicted to a drug is 100% the fault of the person who took the drug, or drank alcohol.  They should be held accountable for their actions.

Sure....I think everyone needs to be accountable for their actions.  The good news is, once you take the money out of the really addictive drugs like Heroin, the crime associated with that drug will drop off dramatically.  I am not exaggerating when I tell you that over 75% of burglaries, car break-ins, and shoplifting is drug related.  You can't hold a job on a 200.00 a day heroin habit.....and you have to get the money somewhere because you will get so sick you will feel like you are dying.....heroin withdrawal is horrible.  Meth isn't much better. Cocaine can be manageable until you start smoking it, then forget it.....you'll sell your soul to get more and get the money any way you can.

Alcohol and drunk driving is another cat altogether.  I have no idea why you can drive drunk and seriously injure or kill someone and the penalty will be a fraction of what it would be if you just shot them dead....and that's if you do any time at all.  Society seems to accept it, and the courts look hard at intent.  Yes, I agree with you that if you drive drunk then intention is implicit....but our court system doesn't look at it that way.  There will have to be changes in legal definitions to make those laws have any real teeth.....and they need to.

Again.....it's addiction we should be at war with, because THAT'S the problem.

It sucks when we see people we care about make bad decisions no matter what the substance of choice is.  No matter if it's drugs or alcohol, when people use substances to medicate feelings, it's rarely a good result in the end.  Often times people blame the bottle or the pills for ruining their lives, but it's really much bigger issues that people refuse to address and simply go to the bottle to cover them up.

I agree with everything LB has said and really appreciate that he is willing to offer the expertise and experience to our discussion.

With the assumption that the war on drugs is a complete failure, there has to be significant changes in federal, state and local policies.  There must be a plan to transition to decriminalization and then probably to legalization.  In my experience, the majority of politicians are, at best, fickle and shortsighted.  Add to the mix a governmental structure which promotes gridlock, and I don't have much faith that there will be meaningful reform.     

I can't say I do either, but the legalization of marijuana will be a big first step.

As far as the seizing of assets go, for local and state police departments, marijuana is BY FAR the biggest cash cow.  I think that's mostly because it can be grown locally and the (for now illegal) operations that sell it don't tend to be as sophisticated as the cartels that deal in heroin and cocaine......so the money is easier to find.  At any rate.....there will be a weaning from the asset forfeiture trough......after that happens there won't be near as much incentive to keep drugs illegal.....then we'll see.

I have had friends over the years who are drug users and they say that the DARE program only encourages kids to dabble with drugs because the "fear tactics" as they put it only make drugs seem like a forbidden fruit. Just wondering how you feel about it since you have so much experience teaching it.

Yeah, I ended up not being too impressed with the program because many of the kids who I could have identified as "at risk" for drug abuse as they got older ended up being people who did actually use drugs.  I'm not sure about your friends psyco-babble.....maybe they're right.  I doubt it....since the other alternative is to pretend that heroin and other hard drugs are no big deal? (taking the whole forbidden fruit argument out of it).......that doesn't make much sense to me. My money would be on the idea that your friends had other issues.

I use "fear tactics" with my own kids.  Hell, if you don't fear getting addicted to heroin, meth, or crack then you're just stupid or you don't really know what it looks like.

Another financial factor - perhaps variable, depending on the state - is the privatization of the prison system. I don't think its a stretch to assume that low risk inmates generate more profit...on both a percentage and volume basis. Those orgaizations have to see legalization of marijuana as a business risk/threat. How effective their lobbying efforts will be over the longer term....don't know. 

I think your point is probably valid, but I don't know much about the private prison business.....but any entity that profits from marijuana being illegal should not be trusted in the discussion. 

We always used a form of fear as well, but we also had some good examples in our family of what it does to you.  "Do you want to turn out like your Cousin Paul?"  yeah, I didn't think so... Don't do drugs.