Immigration mess (Page 2)

here is the biggest problem with your post ... you have a friend and you heard, plus you copied something off a website. That doesn't mean you know anything about the system and how it works, so throwing out statements like you have to have money and connections is irresponsible when you know nothing more than what one friend told you, what you read on a website, and you once heard. reality - your friend came in on a student visa, but here intent was to find a way to stay. do you not see why the government has a problem with that? because she came in as a student she is entitled to now get citizenship? if that becomes the law, we are suddenly going to need thousands of more universities as people will find a way to become a student in the U.S. if it means you are entitled to citizenship. clearly you didn't look up anything about the congressionally mandated denaturalization program, otherwise you wouldn't now claim that it needs to be easy. when it was easy, they naturalized thousands of violent felons - not to mention the 10s of thousands more who just have silly convictions like cocaine trafficking, child trafficking, repeat DUIs, wife and child battery convictions, burglaries, illegal fire arm possessions, multiple property theft convictions, etc. -- but gee, sounds like you now think it should be easy, because well, you never heard anyone say it was easy .... of course, the only ones you have ever talked to are those like your friend the waitress. did you talk to the woman from Romania who got married to a U.S. citizen, and 2 years and one week later had her status? how about her mother who the wife then turned around and petitioned for, who then had her status in 8 months? how about the thousands of Eritreans who make there way here and most every one is granted asylum because once you make U.S. shores, being sent back would mean torture by the ruling government, or the Russian who married the U.S. student studying in England? or the Cuban who can't go back for the same reason - Cuba wont' take them back, or the thousands of women from developing nations who marry the Mormon missionaries or service men, then after 2 years and a day have status? or the business man who has money to invest in the U.S.? or that Albanian youth working at the butcher shop in New York? my point is, just because you never heard it, doesn't mean you know immigration law.

you do realize, the diversity program is just that - a diversity program? = there are hundreds of other ways to get status in the U.S. also, how much diversity is there if you say, ok, 8 million Mexicans want in and only 200 Albanians, so come on in all of you. plus the 2 million from china and the Philippines. one little used program in the grand scale of immigration avenues is either taking the one thing some "reporter" published in a bid to bolster the truth you know rather than wanting to hear reality, or you fail to realize the complexity of the system and the many, many avenues to immigration.

your friend spent thousands and thousands of dollars because she is getting one useless degree after another to stay. and just what is your position now on "connections" your first post indicated you somehow knew you had to have political or high money connections to get status. now you are changing that to me you need connections in the family sense? yes, marrying a USC makes the path easier. if you, oh, take care of Hillary Clinton's mother who has Alzheimer's and let's say, she is getting nominated for sec of state, then yes, suddenly Hillary's illegal help gets fast tracked to citizenship, but the Clinton connection is one in 13 million, a whole lot of people get status without connections. have a legitimate asylum claim, have money to invest, have skills, have a baby in the U.S. and the kid is automatically a USC, go to school, to a summer jobs program like the big summer tourist attractions, etc. my brother's company hires people from other countries to drive harvest crew -- that is as far from white collar you can get. Disney is not hiring its foreign workers for white collar jobs, nor is wall drug, Wisconsin dells, or six flags. when their jobs end, yet, they have to go home, or find someone to marry while they are here.

in terms of cost, it is a matter of public record - go to USCIS.GOV and it will tell you how much it costs - $695 for naturalization, FREE to apply for asylum. FREE. there are plenty of people who navigate the system without an attorney. if you hire an attorney, some are a lot more expensive than others, and higher price doesn't mean better quality. some attys will promise the universe but deliver nothing, some do a great job for a fair price. if you want someone to do the process for you, then you have to expect to pay for the service - not get it free, or would you have no money to feed their children because they shouldn't get any services but yet they should get free services to get status?


now, you were some what correct in stating some people have waited more than a decade (not 19 years, but 14 is accurate). those are almost all people from Mexico because millions of Mexican want to come, but only thousands from other countries. again, this is just one of MANY ways to get status in the US, and this program, almost always the case that a child eventually reached 21, then petitioned for their parent. if it's the other round, parent gets status first, very easy to get their minor children status, OR adult children who are not married. adult married children have a harder time because where do you draw the line? adult children, with their spouse, then the spouse brings his entire family, and so on and so on. you have to draw the line somewhere.

that said, I find it disgusting that you let these people into the country with the promise of status .. some day, but because they followed the rules, they live in poverty while their 15 million illegal comrades live far better because they do qualify for all kinds of services so any money they make under the table is disposable income.

immigration is extremely complicated, so your nut shell statements are false, because they are based on pretty much zero knowledge of the system, learned from one friend, rumor and a newspaper article that touches on ONE aspect of immigration. btw - the joke of a 'test' you can find on google of the citizenship test is a complication of the hardest question found on each test. the test is NOT that hard, and you don't have to get a perfect score, but you should know who is the president, the vice president, the basics about our system of governance, how any stars and stripes, how many states, etc. also, are you aware there are all kinds of waivers from even taking the test? you get that without any "connections" you just need to provide the documentation. also, are you award that even the more expensive applications - like naturalization, allow for a fee waiver? you just need to fill out the paperwork regarding your assets and expenses. I knew a guy who owned a house on Chicago's gold coast out right. he was granted a fee waiver because while he had no mortgage, he had lost his job but wanted to stay. guess what, no connections, no big outlay of cash.

I could tell numerous stories from every perspective - like the woman whose mother was dying of brain cancer and asked in tears, could the process please be sped up so her mother had her last wish before she died. two weeks! it was done in two weeks. she had no connections. or the family who had drug arrests, but their US born child had a rare tumor and the parents told the immigration judge, 'we were stupid, we got involved with the wrong crowd, our daughter's condition has changed us -- IJ gave them both status.

it's not all heartless, some programs suck, political connections help people here and there, but head on down to the NY CIS office once a month, or any naturalization center in any large city any where in the country every single month at witness the hundreds at each location that are naturalized every single ceremony. ..and that's not including those who are getting the thousands of visas issued every month - TPS, BCC, SEVIS, VAWA, U-visa, S-visa, green cards, etc. etc.

bottom line - it is incorrect to say that you need connections, decades of time and vast amounts of money to get status. some people the only chance they have is a connection, but the vast majority have zero connections in the context of the meaning of the word you initially posted. there is no reason to make it "easier" -- it is already a lot more easy than your one article about one program represents.

finally - think about these two things . richest man IN THE WORLD, the ENTIRE WORLD is Carlos Slim. where does he live? (although just like denaturalization, you probably won't bother to look it up because you know what you know, and you won't let truth get in the way), and second, 15 years ago, Hispanics came here in waves then already, to work and send money home. do they send money home to the kids now? nope, they get here first, then tell their kids to come join them. these aren't orphans at the border, these are kids who have been separated from their parents who have found work in the US - and are coming here because it makes sense - I work more to send money home to care for you or I have you come here, then I don't have to take care of you any more as the US govt will take care of that, and I get to keep the money I used to send home to also live the American dream.

I served in peace corps in a third world country, I don't blame them for coming and it takes a lot more gumption than most any of us have, but again, don't over simplified and pretend you know how the whole process works based on your one friend and something you heard one time.

My Grandfather made a fort out of the dead bodies of his friends on the beach at Tarawa in WWII.  He survived that landing, one of only two in his Marine Corps platoon to do so, to come home and raise 7 children and 48 grandchildren and great-grandchildren.  He was fighting for a country that allowed his grandfather to come here to escape starvation in Ireland.  His wife, my grandmother, was here because her parents escaped Yugoslavia, and certain death, under Marshall Tito. It's a great American story.

I am proud to be their first grandchild.  I am nothing but a living legacy to the opportunity my ancestors had to come to my country and make a better life for themselves.

I don't care about the politics, or some misplaced sense of nationalism.  This is America.  This is a place that is made up of generations of people like my grandparents and great-grandparents.  We have NO right to deny the same opportunity to anyone who comes here to better themselves.  That's what freedom means and that's what we have always stood for.

I would fight over it and for it...the same as my Grandpa did. 

Our borders should be open to all who seek a better life, and we should welcome them with a process that makes it easy for them to become Americans if that's what they desire.  

 

Edited by Left Brain 2014-07-17 12:23 AM

nicely put. Your country and where i live is founded on immigrants. Here they were mainly criminals but that's another story. We have stringent processes in place but asylum seekers are welcomed through the appropriate channels. Whether i agree with our current policy is another matter, but i'm an immigrant and can't imagine living anywhere else.

all I know it is my girl came here in 1996. Took her 3 months to get a visa and 1 year to become a citizen. She came here as a refuge during the Bosian war.

As for immigration we had discrimination of our own people when you had excess people coming in and potentially destroying the job market.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article...

I agreed with one thing the President said last night. "This is not how democracy works."

On the substance & human side of the issue, I totally agree with LB.

As for the procedural aspect, I want immigration dealt with by Congress instead of with an EO. The good thing is the issue can still be handled in that manner as Congressional action would be able to supersede the EO. That's why most of the belly-aching coming from Capitol Hill is kind of ridiculous...they still have the power to legislate immigration policy...if they really want to. Sadly, now that Obama has done the dirty work, I doubt either party is eager to fight this out in Congress any further.

The EO once again allows things to get done without Congress having a vote go on their record on a divisive issue. Republicans will be more than happy to continue slinging arrows at the "dictator president." Both Dems & Reps are shielded from future campaign attack ads...the left can't say they voted against Latinos & the right can't say they voted for any leniency for illegals. Just like not debating & voting on the ISIS war, I fear both sides of the aisle will now be more than happy to let it go in exchange for not having to defend a vote in future elections.

On the bright side, this may free up Congress to act on the border security aspect of the issue as they will no longer get hung up debating/voting on how to deal with the people who are already in the country.

Problem with the guest working program extended from this.

"Those Who Entered Legitimately Account for 40% of the 11 Million Total, Complicating Attempts to Craft New Legislation"

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB1000142412788732391630457840496010...

Issue is not always people risking there lives to come here but people who do not leave.

Because if you do not your breaking the law.

Why have a country with boarders then?

I think about a million people get green cards every year. How many more green cards should we give out a given year? 2 million, 10 million.....as many as there are who want to make a better life for themselves? What's a good number?

The other question I have is what immigration law is actually broken? Is there a specific one or a list of them that we can all point to and say it needs to be changed? What law should get changed? I am asking because I simple don't know the answer. It seems to me that the mess has been created by the Executive Branch itself (and not just Obama) not enforcing the law and not any failure of the law.