kalalau's Group - FULL for now (Page 2)

Update on my Disney World Marathon yesterday.  I did about as expected, coming in at 3:53:03.  I was fairly strong the whole way.  Started off a little fast in case I had a 3:40 in me, but I was smart enough to recognize early that I didn't so I backed off a little bit.  My body is quite beat up right now, more beat up than usually after a marathon.  I won't be able to run for a while because of my knee.

The weather was pretty good; it was pretty cool weather for a good 3 hours of the race before it heated up.  Disney is really good at their medical tent, it's funny to see a high percentage of people walking around with bags of ice, ceram-wrapped to themselves.

The big challenge for the weekend was having a 9 year old pull me around Magic Kingdom until 10pm the night before, and til 6pm at Animal Kingdom the day of the race, of which I both succeeded somehow and it was totally worth it.

Too bad you can't get Florida water very cold even with tons of ice thrown in the bath.  Ice baths are fantastic for the legs.  I will be doing that once I get back to Maryland.

Next year - The Goofy Challenge!  I think. :-)

Congrats on the marathon! I have always wanted to try one myself. Perhaps next year!

I hope your knee is feeling better.

I can use some advice from anyone. I am forcing myself to go to the pool tomorrow and work on my swimming. Just not sure where to even start. Do I focus on lap#'s? On timing? On breathing? Use flip turns or no flip turns?  It's been a LONG time since I swam competitively...but i know I can do it again! Just tell me best place to start.

Thanks,

Abbie 

I appreciate it Dave.

I have not done an IM, but figured doing the training will make the smaller races seem easier.  I understand the destruction it can cause, but did not know where to start so I picked the easiest hardest training log (bronze IM).  I may suspend my IM training log and join the schools swim and cycling clubs.  This will be nice to meet new people and learn new techniques and routes. 

 I do not believe I am able to fullfil the IM this year because of sign-ups and my tardiness.  I had no idea they filled up so quickly.  I am eying a sprint in Manasas March 29th to get the transitions down and to ease into this new adventure.  I would like to accomplish a half IM, but most the ones I have been eying are booked.  I think the Rhode Island (July 12th), Idaho (June 2nd), Bristol NH (June 3rd), and Boise (June 13th) half IM would be very doable (Just one, back-to-back like that might break me).  They are mid-way through tri season and the temperatures would not be unbareable.

Do you think any of these choices would be better?  Maybe you have done one or know someone to have participated in one of these? 

I am mandated to do the Rock & Roll Marathon in Nashville April 25th.  No backing out.  This bumps my tri's to prep for half IM's back a bit so I can recover from and do well in this event.

Also, in-between half IM's I was thinking Olympic or longer sprints would be good to keep fresh on transitions and the overall feeling of being in a competitive atmospher.

Abby-

Here is a strategy I use when planning swimming workouts (or running or biking).

I find a race I am interested in, and look at last year's results.  I look at one of the slower racers in my age/gender group and note how long he spent swimming.  Now I have an idea of how long my swim workouts should be - let's say 35 minutes.

In that 35 minute interval, I work towards attaining the most laps I can, which means working on endurance and efficiency.  No need to swim for hours when all you need is 35 minutes.  I'd rather spend the extra time lifting weights.

I know this doesn't exactly answer your question, but I thought I'd offer it to you and the group for feedback.

Abbie's got a picture posted! :-)

For swimming, are you having trouble with endurance, form, or everything?

Here is a link to Total Immersion, which is what I used and a lot of people on this website have used.  It gets rave reviews.  Sometimes it seems hokey, but in the end you can still get a lot out of it even if you don't agree with everything.

http://www.amazon.com/Total-Immersion-Revolutionary-Better-Faster/dp/0743253434

A lot of the swimming suggestions that I have read focus on things like reducing your stroke count for one length of the pool.  The idea is that if you get across the pool in as few strokes as possible, you are working on your efficiency, and reducing drag.  Drag is the #1 factor in slowing you down and making you tired.

I like to do flip turns, but I don't think it matters.

Right now I would go as slow as you need to go in order to make yourself comfortable doing the laps.  Then, as you get better, we can start doing some interval training to increase your speed.

There are lots of great videos on YouTube for some drills you can work on.  I'd post them but I can't do that at work.

There is a book preview of the TI book at Google Books.  When I first started, I read through the preview and that gave me some ideas of how to get started.

http://books.google.com/books?id=d_Eot0PEKpcC&dq=total+immersion&printsec=frontcover

Your logging of your workouts looks fantastic, I like it.  Maybe you'll even push me to start logging mine. :-)

IM training does make a HIM feel like "just another race," I'll admit to that.  But IM training can be really tough, and it's hard to stick with for long periods of time.  People burn out all the time, and it hurts relationships because of the time spent on it.  I really didn't want to sign up for Lake Placid because I thought I should take some time off, but I was there at registration and I thought this might be my only opportunity to do it.  Friends laugh because I say "I inadvertantly signed up for an Ironman." :-)

You don't have to abandon the training, just maybe head into a program focused on your primary race of the season.  Yes, swimming clubs are a great idea as well.

I don't know much about the HIMs you mentioned except that they exist.  Do you care if it is Ironman branded or not?  If not, there are a lot more options.  I have done the Morgantown Half, in July, which is a good race but hilly.  Musselman (New York) is a very popular race as well, in July.  In the early fall, a popular nearby race is the Delaware Diamondman, all flat and a fast race.  There is also a nice half in Williamsburg in September, which I was supposed to do last year but it was cancelled due to the hurricane.  But if you are looking for the Ironman brand name, any of them will be great.  Ironman puts on a class race no matter where you are.

For your marathon, are you looking to do your best, or just "well?"  You can do both HIM and marathon training at the same time.  Just mix the two schedules together a bit, eliminating some of the running (but not the long runs).  When I line up my season, I decide what are my 'A' races, what are my 'B' races, and what are my 'C' races.  They all differ in priorities.  A 'B' race might be the marathon.  I will train for the marathon but the real focus is IM Lake Placid.  So I might not get the full training or taper in for the marathon, but I am still able to do it and do it decently.  For a 'C' race, I am almost just doing it for training.  A little taper if any, and no changes to the training schedule.  A half marathon, a sprint, or an olympic tri, might fall into that category for HIM or IM schedules.  These are races where you don't care at all what time you finish.

Prioritizing the races helps you make decisions in the training plan.

You are thinking well with the plan to keep racing the smaller races, it really does help a lot.

If it is important to you to do an Ironman branded race, then you need to think about 2010 soon, and be ready to sign up when the time comes.  For some of these races, you will have to travel (and maybe volunteer) just to get in.  Lake Placid is one that you will have to show up on site to sign up.  Louisville, not so much.  Florida, is a risk if you try online signup.  Arizona sells out quickly but not so fast that you can fear missing out if you go online the day it opens, or maybe the week it opens.  But then you have to fly your bike out to AZ.

There's a lot more options if you don't care about the Ironman brand name. (I did, and can appreciate caring about it.)  Chesapeake Man is the one that comes to mind first, in Maryland.  That one stays open until just before the race in October, I believe.  Beach2Battleship is one in North Carolina that just started last year, and was highly successful.  This is a full iron distance as well as a half.

Ah, I'm glad you mentioned this.  If I was on my game, I should've recommended road or hybrid tires for Abbie's mountain bike.  Abbie, you can get smoother tires pretty cheaply if you wait for sales.  When I need bike parts, I am usually waiting for it to go on sale at Performance Bike or Nashbar.  Eventually, everything goes on sale at those stores/websites.  I can keep my eyes open if you like.  Have the smoother tires should make you a lot faster in the race.

Well, since you live right there, I think Black Bear is in your future, whether it's this year or some other. :-)  You could always do the international distance this year to get the flavor.

Yes, I would, but if you're strapped for time you don't have to.  Maybe once or twice a week.  When you get to the longer bike rides, you might not feel like running so much, so you don't have to run after those.

Most of the plans seem to call for a bike/run once a week.  I just see the opportunity there, especially when I am on the bike trainer at the gym, and don't want to waste it so I run, even if it's a short distance.

Welcome D!

Yes, triathlons are a lot easier on the body than long distance running, I can see why you'd like to do that rather than half marathons.  I would venture to say that a half Ironman is easier on the body than a marathon. 

So if we keep you accountable, you'll focus and keep training? ;-)

I have found that I always need a race on my calendar as well, to keep me going.

You remind me of a quote from a podcast I listen to.  It sounds kind of harsh, but it's funny, and true a lot of times.  "You don't hate running, you just suck at it."  That's the podcast guy talking; I don't talk to people like that. ;-)  But it's true that the better you get at it, the more you will like it.  And it takes a while.  But, the nice thing about triathlon is that you have 3 disciplines to work on, which can keep things fresh.  And they all work interchangeably, each sport will help improve the other sport.  It's funny how that happens.

Your women's tri in Seattle is going to be awesome.   Are you driving to that race?

Hi Christi!  It's great to have you on board.  We must do a lot of the same races.  I also do the A-10 a lot, but every year I say that I'm not doing it, because it's a lot of hassle.  9 min miles for that race, with those hills and heat, is pretty good.  I used to do yoga class 1-2 times a week, but that fell to the wayside when I got crazy and started half ironman training.  I try to do yoga here and there, but you know how that goes.  I did the Cherry Blossom a couple of times, but that's a big deal as well, and when I did it, the weather was really bad.  Of course, when I don't do it, the weather is great.  It'll be a lot of fun.

I've always wanted to go see the Iron Girl race, but when the time comes, I think why would I get out there that early in the morning to watch a race? :-)  Maybe you will get me out there so I can watch you.  It's not far from home.

National 1/2 Marathon is a good race.  Packed with all the sites, and the parking is great.  MCM is one of those must-do races for those of us in the area.

If you like Iron Girl, you might be interested in a race I do every year not far from Ocean City - Osprey Sprint Triathlon - in early October.

If you have questions, just shoot away.  There are no silly questions. That's why I admitted that I once wore my wetsuit on the bike portion of the race.  It's hard to be embarrassed around a guy who has done such a thing. :-)

That's kind of interesting that you and Abbie both have competitive swimming backgrounds, but are struggling right now. 

Hi Becky!

Hey, we've got the same race schedule!  That is awesome.   Well, if one were to sign up for a HIM (half Ironman) without ever having done a tri, Eagleman is the one to do.  Flat and fast.  I have two other friends who are doing Eagleman as their first HIM.  It was really hot last year though, like 97 degrees.  Somehow we will survive whatever the day throws at us, and you will feel great about it.

Did you do the Baltimore or Frederick marathons last year?  I was a pacer for the 4:15 group in Frederick and the 5:00 group in Baltimore.  Did you run with my Baltimore group?  Seems like you would've been around me.  I was "the loud guy." :-)  I tried to distract folks, and it was a blast.

I like your progress.  Good job.  I remember when I was training for my first HIM and I was around 2:38/100 pace.  Where are you getting your drill ideas?  Maybe we can pass them along to the rest of the group.

I don't think you have to worry about being pulled off the course in either race.  

Did you know that Linda Carter, Wonder Woman, did Columbia?  Apparently she's a triathlete. :-)  Mayor Fenty from DC is one too, and pretty fast.

Columbia is kind of hilly, you might want to come out here and ride the course on your bike as part of your training.  Princeton Sports used to take weekly rides on the course, but they seem to have stopped that, due to it being dangerous due to traffic.  I bet they will start the rides back up shortly before the race.  Those rides were really well attended.

Christi - the store also has bike rides on the Iron Girl race course.  Fortunately, you skip the Columbia Tri hills.

Back to Becky.  I am sure my friends and I will be training on the Eagleman course a couple of times, if you'd like to come along.  Did you get your hotel yet?  They are mostly full.  Is your boyfriend doing both races as well, and also hasn't done his first tri?

Kalalau,

Regarding kicking - I kick once per stroke (not a 2-beat, 3 beat, whatever).  My kick is sort of a "side-stroke" kick.  When timed with the arm stroke, I get a great "launch".  It feels like I'm pushing off the pool wall and gliding for a  long time (recall - 15 strokes per pool length).  The problem is - it takes a lot of energy.  I don't think I can do that for a mile swim.

The light "flutter" kick feels effortless, but does not propel me much at all.  It just balances my body while I stroke, so the arms are doing all the real work.  But I can sustain that kick forever.

Should I try to develop this "side-stroke" kick  and build endurance there, or is the flutter kick the way to go?

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply.  I am considering the Frederick Half this year, just for fun and since I literally live like 4 miles from the start.  I did not do Baltimore last year, but was there cheering on my boyfriend who has done the full for 3 years now.  I was also cheering for a woman that I think was in your pace group, Jen...I think she had a pink hat on.  I haven't done the full in Baltimore and am considering it for my fall marathon.  MCM is often my fall Marathon of choice, but Baltimore doesn't fill up as fast and I want to give it a try.  It's a great race and the BF loves it and always PRs, even with the hills. 

No hotel in Cambridge yet.  Oops.

As for Columbia, the hills around where I live are similar to around Columbia, but since I'm not far away, we will probably give the course a trial run a time or two before the actual race.  Columbia and Eagleman will also be the first tris for the BF, so we are in this together!  A practice ride on the Eagleman course probably won't be a bad idea, so when the time comes, please let me know.  We are doing 2 "trial weeks" of our training schedule this week and next to see if the schedule will work before training really starts on 1/26.  This required me to get up early yesterday and do power intervals on the trainer.  I'm not a morning person, but I did it!   Tonight is run and swim. 

Despite what my logs say, I'm not doing a BT training plan, but found a challenging beginner program to follow (we have a big book that has like 12 levels of training plans for every distance from sprint to IM, we chose level 4).  It doesn't look easy by any means, but i think it will get the job done.  For the most part it's a 9 workout a week plan, with bricks about every other week (and bricks only count as a single workout). I'm going to try to upload my plan later today.

I got a couple of swimming drills from here (BT site) and also have the TI book, but haven't really implemented it yet.  Up until now, we'd just been going to the pool and swimming the chosen distance without stopping; mostly trying to get comfortable in the water and learn to breathe correctly, no drills, intervals, etc. although I did try to incorporate some the the concepts like the catch-up drill, or the fingertip drag to encourage better form.  We will be incorporating drills and such as part of the formal training.

I think that's it.  I better get back to work! :-)

I'm such a sucker, and you're a local guy, so sure, welcome! :-)  Please tell us about yourself.

Can't say I've done a 50k yet, but that's just a matter of me doing it.  Which one are you doing?

I will have to get in the pool and see what that feels like.  I think I have felt that before.  But it sounds great that you can do the light flutter kick that balances your body and allows you to swim forever.  We also need to save our legs because we need to jump on a bike after we get out of the water.  I would stay with the flutter kick.  I'll dig up some talk about the kick.

Thanks for the update on drills.  Drills are so hard to stick with, because they are not impressive at all, are quite boring, and give you no confidence that you can do the distance.  But they work, no doubt.  I really need to do more drills.

I'd probably know Jen from the her face.  Name sort of sounds familiar.  For Baltimore, I had these two balloon sticks that I banged almost the whole time, and I screamed a lot.  My arms were sore when I got done, and my voice was hoarse. I'd like to think that I helped people, but it wouldn't be hard to believe if someone was actually chased away. :-)

The training plan always looks daunting, but once you get into it for a few weeks, it'll settle on you and you'll learn to accept it.  Then, when the race it over, you won't know what to do with yourself for all this free time! 

Riding the actual course is a nice confidence booster, that's all.  Yes Frederick has some nice hills. :-)

For Eagleman, a lot of people seem to take advantage of the camping site they offer cheaply.  I think they do it at a local high school.  That should still be available.  Otherwise, just keep your eye open for cancellations.  Worst case scenario you would still be able to get a place about an hour away I think.

I'll be interested in seeing what a 9 workout/week plan looks like.