Bike fits - not the be-all-end-all? (Page 2)

I had my bike fitted a couple of times and each one was as bad as the one before.  I don't think the people here use a specific system though?  Then I was recommened a Chiropractor - odd I know.  But he is a semi pro Ironman and does bike fits.  It was excellent because he measured you, set up your bike and then put you it.  He would then press on various muscles to see where there was strain and adjust you bike accordingly.  He also explained to you what would happen if you moved stuff up or down, how it would affect your position etc. 

I still "tweeked" my bike marginally after his set up, but felt confident to do so after his explainations.  I went from severe shoulder pain to a pain free ride.

I know that this does not help anyone that does not live here but it just shows that LBS did not help me at all.

Not odd at all. We have a local chiropractor who is a bike fitter for road/mountain that is supposed to be fantastic. And, if you have back problems like me, a doc can write a PT script for the fit and insurance will pay for it.

I find it interesting how many people are saying they got bad bike fits. This is something I've always wrestled with. I know exactly what my fit preferences are (based on comfort) and so I try to stay in line with those while still being reasonably close to the standard angle ranges. If I were to go to a professional fitter, I know he'd change a couple of my angles and I would hate it. But maybe I'd eventually adapt to it, my wattage would end up higher and I'd be more aero. The question is, if I didn't adapt to the fit on a comfort basis very quickly, would I consider it a "bad fit"?

IMO, it seems logical that if someone is riding a position that is perfectly comfortable and a fitter changes that position, there is going to be some adaptation required. Like I said, when I move my seat 2mm I can tell a very obvious difference (I dislike it almost always). But that begs the question, without a power meter and a wind tunnel how does one really know if a fit is better/worse except by going on comfort?

I'm going to be training on a Computrainer this winter so I will have power numbers and I'll probably start messing with my position some but again I won't have a wind tunnel so I won't know with great confidence if I'm trading +power for -aero.

I've been fitted.. 4 times?

Exactly. It was terrible fit!  I was terrified to ride the bike.  When I realized that just because they were professionals didn't make them right, I'm much more comfortable

I think this is a very interesting point.  I struggled with this issue.  My considerations, were these:

1.  The fit that I had been given at LBS was not consistent with what I had (subsequently) been reading about good fit as described by various 'experts' (granted, self-proclaimed, but with some credibility as their systems have been used by many, apparently successfully)

2.  Other than that he worked in a bike shop, I had no reason to think that the guy who fitted me knew much about fitting, especially for a triathlete.  (This doesn't mean he didn't know anything -- I just had no evidence on this point.)

3.  The original LBS fitter did ask me a few questions, but in retrospect there were two problems here:  (a) I don't think he asked (all of) the right questions; and (b) as a total rank beginner, I didn't really know how to answer them anyway (which is why I said originally that the bad fit was partly my fault).

4.  I rode in that position for a few months, and still my body seemed to be 'asking' me to find a different position.  I also felt that I was capable of being much more aero than I was at that time.

Especially coming from a beginner such as me, these considerations are far from conclusive -- I don't know that there are any -- but they are what led me to get a professional fit, and I don't regret it at all.  I'm faster and more comfortable now.

To me, if two inches is a couple, and three is a few, then "several" is 4+ inches. Honestly I just don't see how a seat height could be done 4 inches too high even in a LBS quick fit. As I tried to indicate in a post above, comfort isn't everything and I believe that it's possible to be "comfortable" with a very bad fit. If so, it makes sense to me that the position should be morphed into something better a little at a time at a rate that one's body can handle the change and still be comfortable.

I'm not saying that this applies to you specifically because I obviously can't see your position. But up here, where if today I were to ride 20 miles I'd probably see 500+ riders, I see some strange positions. I have to assume that at least some of those strange positions are comfortable to the rider.

well i went to a LBS.  picked up the bike, was fitted they spent about 2hr on my fit.

one of my legs felt little over extended, lowered the seat by 2mm.  since then my bike has been so comfortable.  its been about 8 months and i probably should consdier going for another fit.

but i feel so good on the bike right now i don't want anyone to fvck with my position.  anyone ever feel that way?  is there anything i can do so i can go back to what i currently have if something gets messed up?

Absolutely. Before letting anyone change your bike at all you should write down all the measurements of everything that's adjustable so that you can reproduce exactly what you currently have.

The problem is that hundreds of places use the term "fit" but none of them mean the same thing.  HOPEFULLY the "fit" the LBS gives you when you buy the bike is pretty darned close, but it isn't always.  Remember that they are in the business of selling bikes.  When I bought my very first bike I ended up with a bike that was a little too small for me...because on all the big bikes I kept saying I felt like I was "reaching".  As a true beginner at that point I didn't realize that in this case "reaching" was the right position...I just wasn't used to it.  But the bike shop wanted a happy customer and sold me the bike that I felt comfortable on.

When I bought my tri bike the guy spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the best frame geometry for me.  When I bought a bike he fit me to it.  But since I was having knee problems at the time I went to the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine a year or so later to get a GOOD fitting.

But it's also important to understand that these fitters are going by guidlines which determine what is "within reason" for a bike position.  For example....

The fitter at the BCSM didn't make too many extreme changes, but did add two shims to my left cleat.  My left leg was my problem leg.

But I still had knee problems.  Just to be SURE it isn't the bike fit before I had surgery on the knee.  This time I had Dr. Andy Pruitt do the fit at the BSCM.  Dr. Pruitt added an additional TWO shims in my left cleat bringing the total up to FOUR.  The first fitter didn't "screw up".  Two shims REALLY helped.  But the "rule of thumb" is that more than two wasn't really "within reason".  A real biomechanics expert though has the confidence to say which rider needs to be "outside the mold".

Absolutely every person that's assisted me with my shoes or bike since then has raised an eyebrow at my four shims.  But as soon as they hear that Dr. Andy Pruitt is the one who put them there they say, "Oh, that's okay then."

So, no...bike fits are not always the be-all-end-all.  Bike fitters are working from a model and will try to fit you to your bike within the model if possible.  And not all bike fitters are created equal.  That being said, the "quick fit" at the LBS should really at least get you in the ballpark.

This thing I question about lowering your seat "several inches" is that you would have originally need to be riding in an extremely exagerated toe-down position (which should be a crime for any LBS to fit you that poorly), and/or now you would need to be riding in a cramped position getting nowhere near full leg extension.  For me personally, I think the former would cause calf cramping, and the later would cause terrible knee pain.

I'm curious, can you give more explanation as to what the situation was, and what it's like now?