200lb Clydes ???????? (Page 2)

201 to 204 here.  I may be right at 200 by June 10.  I will not feel guilty if I weight 199.2 and I need to drink a bottle of water to be in the Clyde Division.  I have raced for 2.5 years in races without a Clyde Division.

I will not gorge myself with water if I go in weighing 197.

The line is drawn at 200.  Sorry.

Edited by pga_mike 2010-05-08 5:48 PM

I will promise that if I can get under 200 lbs, I will never race as a Clyde again.

You know the clyde/athena div. was made for the larger athlete. foucus on "athlete". At 6'3" I ran at 175 lbs. at 26 years old. I did very well in the open with places like 5th and 3rd. I could never compete against the 140lb. runners . As I got older I got alot more muscular- no I don't lift weights either. My legs grew big etc. I got heavyier at 230 you wouldnot think I look it . Point is I don't think racing against a 198 lb guy or 199 lb guy make near the difference as racing the 15o lb guy. So for me weight divisions are much more important and meaningful then age divisions. I would much rather race a big"athlete" who is young then a small older athlete. This is one reason I think there needs to be weigt divions and change the age divisions to every 10 years.   Hands down weight plays much more of a challenge then age. When you're dealing with indinvidual sporting events .boxing,wrestling its not stigma to compete in different weight divisions. It should be viewed the same in any sport as this. I don't see how this takes away from the open group at all . From a pure athletic standpoint weight divions makes more logical sense, power output ,weight to power output etc. IMO......
   Maybe the smaller athlete belives there are plenty of sports for larger frame athletes don't dilute "our" sport. Problem is its everyones sport and should be everyone sport. Just look at the post how many hevier people are intrested in this sport -alot!!!!!!!!.

I agree with so many of you...

As an Athena who is 6'0-6'1 and muscular....the lightest I have ever been was 155 and I looked horrible..I was to skinny for my body type...most local races don't have an athena cat. so I race AG and do very well in them...but for the larger races HIM I'm planning on racing as an Athena...

I raced Clyde last weekend in Lubbock, I bulked up over the winter coming back from a PF injury, my old race weight was 172-182. My personal goals are to improve and migrate back to my old weight. I look at it as personal accomplishment wherever im at. Ill never be a 130 pound runner, but pretty decent all around. Im having to back of the heavy weights which is fine. As long as i keep improving ill race whichever category im honestly in, but to me i can only get faster losing the bulk.

I finished 3rd Cyde, if I beat my time on the same course next time out but finish 20th in AG ill be happier with the faster time. Im here to compete against me.

My goal is to be the fastest Triathlete I can be, even at 220. 

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I agree on your perspective, i have seen some tall Clydes that come in right at 200, yet are around 8% bodyfat, and i look and think how am i going to compete against these guys?

I'm not sure if you think it is unfair for a tall 200 lbs person who's BMI is low is unfairly competing against someone who is short and 200lbs.  To me the tall guys are getting the short end of the deal on triathlons and the reason for the Clyd division.  My reasoning.  6'4" 200 (low BMI) guy is not going to be able to lose much more weight without having issues with strength loss.  5'8" 200 (high BMI) has a good chance of being over weight or one hell of a great tail back.  The 5'8" guy has a lot of room to loose weight and not loose strength of endurance in the race, and eventually be like a "traditional" triathlete.  One has to remember Clyd division does not mean overweight and out of shape division.  It is for the muscular or tall guys who are really fast and are at a disadvantage against the smaller/traditional triathlete.

My personal experience.  I'm 6'1" 215.  I'm built like a football player, just 20lbs lighter then my college playing weight.  I train with a FOP who is 5'9" to 5'10" 165.  Swiming: he smokes me, I suck at swiming, and body type has little to do with swiming in my opinion as a I swim with other guys who don't look like athletes and they can fly. 

Biking: I'm as fast and sometimes faster on flat courses or in wind.  Hills, I have a tough time hanging because of the weight.  It's like I've got a parachute.  

The run:  I can hold for a little while, but as I fatigue, the muscle just doesn't want to keep going, so I end up a minute per mile behind, and hope there are few hills.

That being said, I get the coments, "you should race ag because you are too fast" or "you're in good shape, you don't need to race clyd."  I've actually chosen to race ag at local races because of some of these comments, but I also think it cheapens the clyd division as a second rate division because I, and others, are expected to self police ourselfs out of the division becuase We've gotten better (I was a BOP to MOP clyd when I started).    

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If you aren't fast enough you don't come first!

EEHHHHHH WRONG!

Since youre new to the debate: A Clydesdale horse is not overweight or fat.  It is rather tall and muscular and built to haul large carts and were used as warhorses for knights w/ armor. 

I've said this in another thread, but the clyde cat is for the Terrel Owens' of the world: 6'3"  225#, and not the Jason Alexanders: 5'5" 205 (starting weight b4 Jenny Craig diet- now down to 170 but I think you get my point)

If your goal is to lose weight and get out of the clyde cat - then you arent a clyde and never were one to begin with.

I am a clyde - always have been, always will be.  I was 195#'s beginning of freshman year HS football. 205#'s by end of season.  Now 20 years later, Im 215#.  Im a little out of shape due to my knee (meniscus tear) so I havent been working out as much as I would like, but ideally, 205# is a good weight for me w/o looking sick.



Edited by ratherbesnowboarding 2010-06-02 11:37 AM

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It's a whole other animal who carries that extra weight across long distances.  We all have different body types, different amounts of fast twitch and slow twitch, etc.  In the end, none of us are professionals so there is nothing wrong with amateurs being matched up with similar groupings.  It doesn't need to go to extremes of hair color but weight and size is a big factor in the process.  There is more drag in the water, more drag on the bike, much more difficult going up rollers and steep hills, and much more force pounding ligaments and tendons.  At 190lbs I was benching 380lbs.  I was ripped with a 6 pack.  There was no way I was going to be competitive with a 140lb guy.  Was I fat?  Nope.  Overweigh?  Nope... I'm a clyde.  Instead of being a gym rat all my life, I decided to try something new.  It's fun and I like that I get to hang and compete with fellow clydes.  At the end of the day, it's just for a ribbon or medal so it's not a big deal.

What many people forget is that weight in and of itself, now matter how tall, short, fat or fit you are, is a limiting factor.  The heaviest man to ever win at Kona weighed 167 pounds (Either Stadler or Macca looking at the stats).  Torbjorn Sindballe dedicated himself to finding ways to stay cool and competitive at 185 including wearing all white and wearing an ice filled glove and he continually overheated and slowed on the run, finishing 3rd in Kona in his best effort.  High body weight correlates with less efficient heat loss, so the heavier athlete tends to have an elevated HR in relation to effort to increase circulation and lower body temperature.

I have a buddy who's 6'8" and 220 pounds who wins the Clyde category in almost every race he enters.  He gets teased all the time by friends asking why he doesn't race AG and that it's "not fair" that he race Clyde since he's "too fast".  The truth is he'll never be as fast as he would if he was the same guy a foot shorter, because he's considerably less aero than a small person would be and his weight makes it more difficult to lose heat.  

Define 'Heavier'.  Do you also mean out of shape?  Or do you mean bigger, stronger and therefore weigh more, like a clydesdale horse.  (And in regards to 'Athena's' were not talking about greek goddess are we?)  The cat name (IMO) s/b self explanatory: Clydesdale=bigger, stronger and more muscular than the average horse, therefore a person racing clyde is bigger, stronger and more muscular than the average triathlete.  And no matter what weight you set, even 225#'s there will be tall and fit ppl that will qualify and overweight ppl that will complain.

Sp you didnt use 'fat or overwieght', but did say heavier and not for tall ppl.  So to me, I took you comment, as a somewhat fit and tall person, that I should not be in this cat b/c I am sandbagging.  I know youve been around tri's for a while and wasnt saying you didnt know what you were talking about, its just this debate is very old and many have the misconception I accused you of having.

Now I agree, you shouldnt be drinking water to get your weight up - this isnt wrestling or boxing, you are what you are.  And yes to me that is sandbagging and abuse and I dont agree w/ what the OP descibed either (and I mentioned that).  But its just like when I hear the overweight ppl complain that a fit person came in first and took a medal away from them b/c the fit person s/b in AG - thats not right either. 
This is a common debate on this thread and many ppl assume that Clyde/Athena=fat, overweight and out of shape and your comment fit right into that mold.  Personally, I dont think it s/b a choice.  If you're over 200#'s your a clyde period.  I want more fit ppl to race clyde to make the cat more competitive (it is a race after all) and get rid of the stereotype that its a handicapped category and coming in first in the c/a div is less of an accomplishment than finishing first in AG.  A competitive category (not a handicapped one) is good for all involved.  So if you do win, you know you won against the best in you division. 

BTW I am so BOP that all a more competitive category would do for me is place me lower - but I dont care.  I am having fun no matter where I finish. 

Chr15 - you did say it wasn't for tall people, which is what was WRONG. It actually is meant for people that, as described by ratherbesnowboarding, will always be moving  more MASS simply due to their greater height/structure. It was NEVER meant to be a category for overweight people, and personally I get tired of all the people that make comments that imply all clydes/athenas are trying to lose weight. I'm 6'1". I am not trying to lose weight.

But the reality is that many people (including, maybe especially, Clydes and Athenas) see the C/A cat as the "heavy" (read: overweight) group and get their panties in a bunch when people that are clearly not "heavy" for their height compete in it. Sorry, but if you are a woman that is 5'6", and you're over 150, you have no idea how lucky you are because you could lose the weight if you wanted to. Yeah, yeah, now I'm going to hear about how "it's really not that easy to lose weight." Whatever, the reality is, people of average height that are in the C/A cats are exactly the opposite of what those cats were created for.

Sandbagging... really? Isn't what Panama descibed in the OP a very rare exception? If I witnessed someone do something like that I may or may not make a comment about them being a DB and then go out and try to kick their a$$ (of course I try and kick everyones a$$ it just doesn't happen). If he is really doing that for the $1 award then good for him. These types of debates just smell of "I can't get in the easy clyde cat so I don't think there should be one" type attitudes. And I don't think that comes from people in the top of AG placings but rather MOP or BOPers who really think this is all very unfair.

What I really want to know is has anyone else really experienced the "sandbagging" as described by the OP or perhaps eating a pizza before the race to qualify for clyde? Maybe I am missing it.

nevermind


Edited by ratherbesnowboarding 2010-06-02 2:35 PM

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I don't know if I ever encountered intentional "sandbagging."  I might have ran into (or I want to believe I did) someone who signed up for a race at say 205 and decided to race clyd.  Through training and change in diet, they ended up 195-198 at race day.  I'd say big deal. 

If I knew a guy intentionally drank " a gallon" of water to make weight, I'd roll my eyes and know exactly who he was and what his bib number is, becuase I now know where I can find some extra motivation that day.  If and when I passed him, I wouldn't say my usual "nice job" I'd have a colorful way of referancing how well that extra water was now.  If he whooped me, what am I going to do?  I'd have to accept that I got beat by him, just like the other guys and gals who were better.  He'd have to live with how he got the podium in the Clyd division.

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My nevermind wasnt to you BTW - I reread the OP and I wondered if this actually happened.  Did the 199# guy who "PROBABLY drank a few bottles of water or whatever and came back 5 minutes later and weighed 200#'s"  I mean do we really know if the 3rd guy actually got the extra #, and race in Clyde or did Panama just assume he did b/c his friends made the cut?  did the guy get a second weigh in?  I couldnt tell based on his post and his use of 'probably'.  He did imply that he didnt like the 200# guys that qualified though - which brings us back to the argument that takes up a lot of space here "Who/what body type the C/A category intended for versus the perception of what the category has become".  It's an old argument here and this wont be the last either.  It usually comes up about once a month and rehashed ad nauseum

But it did bring up a good point which we all seem to agree on - you shouldnt be adding false water weight to get into the clyde cat - you either are or you arent a clyde and you shouldnt be allowed a second weigh in to tip the scales.

Edited by ratherbesnowboarding 2010-06-02 3:51 PM