Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED (Page 2)
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() This is outstanding info and to be honest, more than I expected. I have done a sweat test before for running and discovered I would lose about 4lbs or 64oz of water per hour. That's when I realized I was definitely a heavy sweater and needed to drink a ton when running a marathon or even a HM in warm weather. I have not experimented with the salt tablets, but I definitely will this year. Even after finishing a HM in cool weather, my face is often covered in salt after the sweat dries. Friends would laugh and ask me if I was working in a salt mine. Kind of crazy. Thanks for the good info and I look forward to the hydration info. Scott, You're in good company @ 64oz/hr. That's really not heavy at all. What I've found is that most people are right in that range on a warmish day. If you see the salt on your face then it's probably not a bad choice to experiment with salt tabs. My opinion is any brand will do. If you want to start cheap then try thermotabs. I buy mine from amazon.com and use them during training sessions. I don't use them during races b/c they are the old fashioned uncoated tablets. For me, the always bounced around and turned into powder during a race. Hydration info post was prior to the salt post. Nutrition info will come later this evening. Jamie |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Here are the details - I really don't want to relive this, but if it helps... ![]() Fast forward to the run... As I made it to mile 4, I could feel everything begin to sit in my stomach, but I needed the calories and fluids so I kept going with my plan. I was walking / running from here on. From 6-12, I was running from point to point at a pace slow enough to not get sick. At mile 13, I told my running partner to leave me behind because I had to walk. At mile 14 my stomach had enough and I threw up. At 15 I was walking, but noticed people walking faster so I picked up the pace and ended up throwing up by mile 17. Mile 21 was the same thing. I went from mile 21-26 without anything. I couldn't even force myself to finish anything. Overall, I felt I had a good plan. It worked during my training. I think it was the excess calories that did me in. I was hoping to get into Florida and if I didn't, I was heading back to Louisville seeking revenge, but on to Florida it is. It doesn't sound like heat is an issue there. Chris. Your story is very typical. In most situations where you start to get the 'slush gut' feeling I would recommend to slow down, stop all intake of carbohydrate and increase salt intake while sipping on water. Unfortunately for you they ran out of water on the bike so that wasn't really an option. During the run, my money would be on the chicken broth. It probably sounded disgusting to you at the time but it really helps soothe the stomach. I've used it once for this very reason. Congrats on finishing under some tough circumstances. Hopefully IMFL will treat you better! Remember that IMFL can get hot. Usually not IMLOU hot but it can happen. You may want to work on a 'plan B' just in case. Jamie |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() What about more solid food? I always have water/gatorade and GU gels on my long - 1hr plus- workouts. On a few of my 2-3 hour rides I have taken a PBJ or a payday. It has seemed to be ok with my stomach but it wasnt a 5 or 12 hour race? Does any body take anything more solid with them during the HIM/IM Races? Anybody any thoughts or suggestions? Wally, PBJ and payday are very typical. I usually just live off of the course and eat whatever they are giving out. I like to keep it simple. For most IM's that means bananas as some solid food. Sometimes they have powerbars as well. In the past I used to carry some fig newtons with me. In short, there is no 'wrong' solid food. If you can eat/tolerate it during the race then go for it. Personally I live off of gels, gatorade/perform, water and the odd piece of banana out of simplicity for planning. For HIM I definitely go with gel and no solid food. HIM pace for me doesn't really go hand in hand with digestion of solid foods. Jamie |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() clewis38 - 2011-01-13 11:39 PM Jamie (and group), I know I'm a bit late to the party, but if you'll take me, I'd love to join your group. My name is Cody, I’m 34 years old, and I live in Las Vegas. I did my first tri in March 2010 - a local HIM. Everyone told me I was stupid to do a HIM for my first ever tri, but I knew a big task would be more motivation, and I set my goal as "finish" only, which worked well for me. It turned out to be a very enjoyable day. I have LOVED every minute of training and racing. I'm currently training to do the same HIM on March 26, 2011. Last year my "finish" time was about 5:40. My goal this year is under 5:00, which is certainly more ambitious than "finish." We'll see. It'll all depend on the bike, which is my weakest event. I’m extremely interested in this mentor group because of your experience with longer distance races, which, as I mentioned, I hope are in my future. I really have no interest in being part of a group whose main focus is losing weight and doing sprint tri’s (although there’s nothing wrong with that). I’m 6’0” and 160 lbs and weight has never been a concern, so my interests are simply to build endurance, not get injured, and have fun building up to IRONMAN status. I’ll admit that even though the HIM distance was very doable for me, I’m scared of the full IM distance. This is mostly because of the marathon…even though I started as a runner, this part scares me. I did 5k racing in high school cross country, but that’s an entirely different animal than a marathon. I had planned to do a marathon in Oct of last year, but busted up my knees about 5 weeks prior to the race and couldn’t recover in time to run it. I was very disappointed. Anyway, that’s my story…I track all my workouts on the BT log, and I’m open to making it public to whomever is interested (I think it is already, but if not, let me know how to fix that, and I’ll do it). Welcome Cody. My first race was an HIM as well. Nothing wrong with that. Currently we are talking mainly long course nutrition but if you have other specific topics/question that you want to kick around with the group please do. You'll have fun volunteering. I've volunteered at Kona a couple of years back and it is a really great experience. Highly recommended for everybody. Not sure of the process to volunteer but get on it early so you get the job you want. Jamie |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I've posted my thoughts on hydration and salt. I will add nutrition tonight after work. Any other topics of interest? Equipment? Training with power? Other? Also, looks like we have room for 1-2 people and then I'm going to shut it down. Jamie |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jamiej - 2011-01-14 3:18 AM I've posted my thoughts on hydration and salt. I will add nutrition tonight after work. Any other topics of interest? Equipment? Training with power? Other? Also, looks like we have room for 1-2 people and then I'm going to shut it down. Jamie I suspect many of the people here may already train with power, but I do not. However, I would be interested in learning more about it. I have to admit the cost of this device is one of the main reasons I do not have one yet. Please note the use of the word “yet”, because I have a feeling I will eventually break down and purchase. I guess I wouldn’t mind hearing some of your thoughts of training with power and any recommendations for the various products out on the market. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hi everyone - If there's room for one more, I wouldn't mind joining in. My details: NAME: Ray LOCATION: Port Colborne, Ontario Canada - 20 mins from Niagara Falls. STORY: My journey started in late 2009 when I saw the Kona boradcast. I weighed 240+, mostly a couch potato at that time and decided to do something about it. Started running, and tried learning to swim. Did a couple of short run races in Feb & Mar and signed up for a sprint duathlon for May, and one in June. Things actually went really well considering my lack of experience. For the June duathlon, I missed an AG podium by 32 secs because I turned around on the bike segment to pick up my Garmin 305 that had popped out of the quick release. ![]() For my half marathon, I beat my 2 hr goal finishing in 1:54 even though my training in the last 2-3 weeks before the race, was lacking...it was a really good taper. ![]() FAMILY STATUS: Married w/ no kids CURRENT TRAINING: SBR plus strength training. I train 6-7 days a week focusing more on swim & run during these next 2 months. For my HIM training, I was planning to use the Don Fink IronFit plan, modified for the shorter distance. 2010 RACES: 2 sprint duathlons, 1 half marathon (1:54:25), handful of mountain bike races. 2011 RACES: 30k run race(Mar), 1 sprint duathlon(May), 1 "try-a-tri"(June), 1 sprint triathlon(June), 1 olympic(July), 1 HIM(Sept), 1 marathon (Nov), and a handful of mountain bike races spread out through the year. WEIGHTLOSS: An ongoing process for me. Currently @ 210, shooting for 185 for May/June, but I don't need any help in that department. STRENGTH: Bike - Even though I was using a modified 30 lbs hybrid bike in 2010, I still managed very good bike splits, even passing alot of Cervelos. WEAKNESSES: 1. Swimming, specifically endurance, but working on it. 2. Running, although this is getting better. My 5k time is approx. 24:30 right now. EQUIPMENT: 2010 Jamis Comet tri bike, Brooks Ghost 3 runners, Xterra Vortex 3 wetsuit, Garmin 305, Tacx mag trainer My areas of concern are the swim. Last year I did duathlons because I couldn't figure out the swimming in time to do the tris. I restarted swim training Dec 2010 and so far, things are progressing better than last year. I'm following the "Learn How to Swim" series of articles on BT. My other areas would be nutrition, and pacing for the different race distances. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Oh BTW, I've been logging my training & races on BT since last spring so I have nothing to hide....and yes I've been slacking the last couple days. ![]() |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Welcome Ray. Sounds like you are well on your way to catching a full on case of the triathlon bug. I will be very up front and tell you that trying to coach or learn swimming 'remotely' is really difficult if not impossible. If possible, I would get some personal lessons or join the local masters team if you have one. Some people become afraid b/c of the word 'masters'. In reality it is a term that means 'older' and not necessarily 'better' (although most are). Joining a team or getting lessons would be the best possible time/$ investment if you are lacking in the swim. I've written a bit on hydration previously and will get to nutrition soon. Please have a look at the prior posts and ask any questions on any topic that you wish. welcome, Jamie |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jamiej - 2011-01-14 11:06 AM Welcome Ray. Sounds like you are well on your way to catching a full on case of the triathlon bug. I will be very up front and tell you that trying to coach or learn swimming 'remotely' is really difficult if not impossible. If possible, I would get some personal lessons or join the local masters team if you have one. Some people become afraid b/c of the word 'masters'. In reality it is a term that means 'older' and not necessarily 'better' (although most are). Joining a team or getting lessons would be the best possible time/$ investment if you are lacking in the swim. I've written a bit on hydration previously and will get to nutrition soon. Please have a look at the prior posts and ask any questions on any topic that you wish. welcome, Jamie Thanks Jamie. Yes I understand about the swimming part, and I wasn't looking to this program for swimming help so we're good. ![]() But like I said, after a year of reading and watching various videos, I feel I'm getting somewhere so I don't foresee it being a problem. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Yes I understand about the swimming part, and I wasn't looking to this program for swimming help so we're good. ![]() That's too bad. Our masters team here is among the tops in the nation and we take all comers. I wouldn't give up on them if you feel like you want to do it. It's a great way to get better. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jamiej - 2011-01-14 11:22 AM Yes I understand about the swimming part, and I wasn't looking to this program for swimming help so we're good. ![]() Yes, once I'm more comfortable in the water in a month or 2, I will contact them again for sure. At the time that I called last spring, I could barely do 50 yards non-stop. Now I can at least do 100 non-stop. ![]() |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() sbsmann - 2011-01-14 9:59 AM jamiej - 2011-01-14 3:18 AM I've posted my thoughts on hydration and salt. I will add nutrition tonight after work. Any other topics of interest? Equipment? Training with power? Other? Also, looks like we have room for 1-2 people and then I'm going to shut it down. Jamie I suspect many of the people here may already train with power, but I do not. However, I would be interested in learning more about it. I have to admit the cost of this device is one of the main reasons I do not have one yet. Please note the use of the word “yet”, because I have a feeling I will eventually break down and purchase. I guess I wouldn’t mind hearing some of your thoughts of training with power and any recommendations for the various products out on the market. Im in the same boat with the power training. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My thoughts on HIM/IM nutrition. Again, my opinion only. The first thing I like to do is figure out what is offered on the course and use that. I'm not really a big fan of mixing potions to complicate my race plan. I know lots of people do this very effectively but I like to keep things simple. I never want to be in a position where I drop my X calorie bottle of brand Y elixir on the road and lose everything. I like to know that if I drop a bottle/gel then I can get a replacement right down the road at the next aid station. Having said that, b/c I do mainly IM races I train on water/perform/powergel. My plan for IM bike would be about 55-65g of carbohydrate (CHO)/hr. Most of this will be in the form of 2 powergels/hr. I will supplement this with random swigs of perform as I pass through the aid stations. On the run I will target about 50-60g of CHO/hr. This will come predominately from perfrom drink with about 3 gels mixed in at mile 7, 14 and 21. If I feel hungry b/c I will nibble on pieces of banana at the aid stations as well. That's it! Pretty easy for me. Again, all of this is personal. I usually race ~152lbs and I train with my nutrition plan during EVERY workout (even just a 30' jog!). Having said that I always have a plan B and you should too. My typical plan B would be triggered by slush gut. I would slow down, switch to water and add salt (or chicken broth if available). After the feeling goes away I would slowly introduce CHO again. For HIM I would typically stay on the same nutrition plan as an IM for the bike but I would stop taking CHO's about 30' b/4 the end of the bike. My HIM run pace does not allow for a very active stomach so I alternate between sips of water and CHO drink (Gatorade, perform etc) at every aid station. I usually carry a gel with me on the run but rarely feel good enough to take it. It usually gets tossed at mile 10ish but I like knowing it is there. hope that helps. Jamie Jamie |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I suspect many of the people here may already train with power, but I do not. However, I would be interested in learning more about it. I have to admit the cost of this device is one of the main reasons I do not have one yet. Please note the use of the word “yet”, because I have a feeling I will eventually break down and purchase. I guess I wouldn’t mind hearing some of your thoughts of training with power and any recommendations for the various products out on the market. I will jot down some thoughts on power training this weekend. Now, off for a quick 5 miler in the cold again! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() What are your training plans this weekend? I'm due for a 75' trainer ride and some track intervals. I've never done running intervals in my life so it should be exciting. Not much need for speedwork in IM but b/c I'm dropping down to HIM only this year I figure I better get a case of the quicks! Post your plans so we can generate some good old fashioned peer pressure accountability! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jamiej - 2011-01-14 11:40 AM What are your training plans this weekend? I'm due for a 75' trainer ride and some track intervals. I've never done running intervals in my life so it should be exciting. Not much need for speedwork in IM but b/c I'm dropping down to HIM only this year I figure I better get a case of the quicks! Post your plans so we can generate some good old fashioned peer pressure accountability! Saturday: 6 mile run w/ 3x 1600m intervals thrown in the mix, strength training, and maybe an hour on the trainer if there's time left. Sunday: 1100 yds (sets/drills) in the pool, and a 8 mile long run. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Alex. You are in. do you know Andrew Auld up there? jamie Edited by jamiej 2011-01-14 11:05 AM |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jamiej - 2011-01-14 11:40 AM What are your training plans this weekend? I'm due for a 75' trainer ride and some track intervals. I've never done running intervals in my life so it should be exciting. Not much need for speedwork in IM but b/c I'm dropping down to HIM only this year I figure I better get a case of the quicks! Post your plans so we can generate some good old fashioned peer pressure accountability! Saturday will probably be a quick run (3-5 miles) and then a quick bike (15 miles) Sunday is usually my long run (8-12) will see what the weather is like and might have to go inside - if so look for 5 on the tread and then a 1800-2200 swim. |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JamieJ, I have seen a lot of "is there room for one more posts," So here is mine. My name is Dan, this is my second year of triathlon. Last year I started, like you with a HIM, did few sprints and then finished with Muskoka 70.3. I planning on two HIM this year and am looking to improve my times quite a bit. This weekend's plan is a 90 min bike on the trainer Saturday, then quick dip in the pool before a 12k run Sunday. Anyway hope there is room for me here. Thanks, Dan |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Danrl88 - 2011-01-14 3:01 PM JamieJ, I have seen a lot of "is there room for one more posts," So here is mine. My name is Dan, this is my second year of triathlon. Last year I started, like you with a HIM, did few sprints and then finished with Muskoka 70.3. I planning on two HIM this year and am looking to improve my times quite a bit. This weekend's plan is a 90 min bike on the trainer Saturday, then quick dip in the pool before a 12k run Sunday. Anyway hope there is room for me here. Thanks, Dan You're in Dan. Welcome. Read the past posts to catch up and let me know if there are any topics you want the group to cover or specific questions you want to ask. Jamie |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wallico - 2011-01-13 8:28 AM If you have room! NAME: Wallico/Wally/Kevin STORY: I ran cross country in high school and was very active and in shape. Fast forward almost 17years and the lifestyle in those years was beer/work/beer/work. One day it hit me....I was 209lbs and not in any shape. Smoking/drinking and no sleep had finally got to me. I started to run....it was 1 mile at a time and can still remember the struggles to go a mile or two. FAMILY STATUS: Married to Jen and have a 17 month old daughter - Skylar CURRENT TRAINING: Not following a plan yet - I have 1 picked out to start in Feb. 2010 RACES: Flying Pig Marathon - 3:44 and 2 sprints 2011 Races: Now till July???? Need help here! - IMKY - Aug 28! WEIGHTLOSS: Not an area of focus for me. I was at 209 in 2009 - I am now floating in the 179 range but I think for the races I can/want to be about 170 - I am 6'1 Need Help with - Nutrition for the longer races - when to schedule my HIM to get the most out of it but also not screw with training or IMKY - learning other workouts or how to mix it up a bit. With all this upcoming traing I do not want to get burn out. Wally, You may want to think about Muncie 70.3 for a nice HIM prior to IMKY. I've done the race 5-6 times. It is very well done and very flat! It moved into the 70.3 series this year so the $$ have gone up. Have you ever tried to brutalize yourself at the Triple T in May? It's in your neck of the woods (Portsmouth). It's cheap but incredibly brutal. It will make IMKY look like a fun run. Sometimes the organizers (HFP racing) let you sign up for just the HIM on Sunday. Just a few ideas.... Jamie |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() So I have a few votes to chat a bit about training with power and power meters in general. Does anybody else have some additional questions/topics for the group? Does anybody in the group currently use a power meter? If so, chime in on the kind and pros/cons of it. Do most of you use a GPS watch for running? If so, what kind? Pros/cons? Are you running according to a HR zone or are you running to maintain an average pace? Let's share a bit b/c my way is absolutely not the highway! And besides, my equipment, like myself is getting a little grey around the edges. I'll post my info in a bit but first I need to eat! Jamie |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't have a power meter for the bike. I do all my training based on HR. My long runs I try to stay in Z2, might hit Z3 if there's a hill or something, same with the bike. I've tried RPE for running, even when I was wearing my Garmin. The one time, I felt like RPE 5 on my tempo run, but when I looked at the Garmin, my HR was only at 145 which is like low Z3 for me. I use a Garmin 305 for my run & cycle training and love it. I'd love to try training with power on the bike, but it's just not in the budget right now. When I took an LT test at the university last spring (about 3 months after I started training from the couch), my bike LT was 231w. With all the mountain biking and racing I did the following 9 mths, I'm sure that has gone up somewhat. I might get another test done since they don't charge me. (they use me as a guinea pig..lol) |
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