Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED (Page 2)

This is outstanding info and to be honest, more than I expected.  I have done a sweat test before for running and discovered I would lose about 4lbs or 64oz of water per hour.  That's when I realized I was definitely a heavy sweater and needed to drink a ton when running a marathon or even a HM in warm weather.  I have not experimented with the salt tablets, but I definitely will this year.  Even after finishing a HM in cool weather, my face is often covered in salt after the sweat dries.   Friends would laugh and ask me if I was working in a salt mine.  Kind of crazy.

Thanks for the good info and I look forward to the hydration info. 

Here are the details - I really don't want to relive this, but if it helps...   During the summer I really began to enjoy Infinit.  I used it from June - August and on all of my long training rides, hot weather (100+), race pace, etc.  My goal was to take in the maximum number of calories possible on the bike.  I found I could handle 350 calories per hour, but my stomach would not take 400.  As you know on the bike during LOO, it was brutally hot.  I mixed 3 bottles of Infinit at 3 hours per bottle and was washing it down with water from the aid stations.  Don't know if it affected you but they ran out of water at mile 75.  Therefore I had to wash down my Infinit with PB Perform (which my stomach can't stand anyway).  Thus putting me way over my caloric intake.  I could tell by mile 80, my stomach was not right and began to shut down.

Fast forward to the run...  As I made it to mile 4, I could feel everything begin to sit in my stomach, but I needed the calories and fluids so I kept going with my plan.  I was walking / running from here on.  From 6-12, I was running from point to point at a pace slow enough to not get sick.  At mile 13, I told my running partner to leave me behind because I had to walk.  At mile 14 my stomach had enough and I threw up.  At 15 I was walking, but noticed people walking faster so I picked up the pace and ended up throwing up by mile 17.  Mile 21 was the same thing.  I went from mile 21-26 without anything.  I couldn't even force myself to finish anything.

Overall, I felt I had a good plan.  It worked during my training.  I think it was the excess calories that did me in.  I was hoping to get into Florida and if I didn't, I was heading back to Louisville seeking revenge, but on to Florida it is.  It doesn't sound like heat is an issue there.

What about more solid food?  I always have water/gatorade and GU gels on my long - 1hr plus- workouts.  On a few of my 2-3 hour rides I have taken a PBJ or a payday.  It has seemed to be ok with my stomach but it wasnt a 5 or 12  hour race?  Does any body take anything more solid with them during the HIM/IM Races?

Anybody any thoughts or suggestions?

Welcome Cody. My first race was an HIM as well. Nothing wrong with that. Currently we are talking mainly long course nutrition but if you have other specific topics/question that you want to kick around with the group please do.
You'll have fun volunteering. I've volunteered at Kona a couple of years back and it is a really great experience. Highly recommended for everybody. Not sure of the process to volunteer but get on it early so you get the job you want.

Jamie

I've posted my thoughts on hydration and salt. I will add nutrition tonight after work.

Any other topics of interest? Equipment? Training with power? Other?

Also, looks like we have room for 1-2 people and then I'm going to shut it down.

Jamie

I suspect many of the people here may already train with power, but I do not.  However, I would be interested in learning more about it.  I have to admit the cost of this device is one of the main reasons I do not have one yet.  Please note the use of the word “yet”, because I have a feeling I will eventually break down and purchase.  I guess I wouldn’t mind hearing some of your thoughts of training with power and any recommendations for the various products out on the market.

Hi everyone - If there's room for one more, I wouldn't mind joining in.

My details:

NAME: Ray

LOCATION: Port Colborne, Ontario Canada - 20 mins from Niagara Falls.

STORY: My journey started in late 2009 when I saw the Kona boradcast.  I weighed 240+, mostly a couch potato at that time and decided to do something about it.  Started running, and tried learning to swim.  Did a couple of short run races in Feb & Mar and signed up for a sprint duathlon for May, and one in June.  Things actually went really well considering my lack of experience.  For the June duathlon, I missed an AG podium by 32 secs because I turned around on the bike segment to pick up my Garmin 305 that had popped out of the quick release.   After that, I never used the quick release..lol.
For my half marathon, I beat my 2 hr goal finishing in 1:54 even though my training in the last 2-3 weeks before the race, was lacking...it was a really good taper.

FAMILY STATUS: Married w/ no kids

CURRENT TRAINING: SBR plus strength training.  I train 6-7 days a week focusing more on swim & run during these next 2 months. For my HIM training, I was planning to use the Don Fink IronFit plan, modified for the shorter distance.

2010 RACES: 2 sprint duathlons, 1 half marathon (1:54:25), handful of mountain bike races.

2011 RACES: 30k run race(Mar), 1 sprint duathlon(May), 1 "try-a-tri"(June), 1 sprint triathlon(June), 1 olympic(July), 1 HIM(Sept), 1 marathon (Nov), and a handful of mountain bike races spread out through the year.

WEIGHTLOSS: An ongoing process for me.  Currently @ 210, shooting for 185 for May/June, but I don't need any help in that department.

STRENGTH: Bike - Even though I was using a modified 30 lbs hybrid bike in 2010, I still managed very good bike splits, even passing alot of Cervelos.

WEAKNESSES:
1. Swimming, specifically endurance, but working on it.
2. Running, although this is getting better. My 5k time is approx. 24:30 right now.

EQUIPMENT: 2010 Jamis Comet tri bike, Brooks Ghost 3 runners, Xterra Vortex 3 wetsuit, Garmin 305, Tacx mag trainer

My areas of concern are the swim.  Last year I did duathlons because I couldn't figure out the swimming in time to do the tris.  I restarted swim training Dec 2010 and so far, things are progressing better than last year.  I'm following the "Learn How to Swim" series of articles on BT.

My other areas would be nutrition, and pacing for the different race distances.

Oh BTW, I've been logging my training & races on BT since last spring so I have nothing to hide....and yes I've been slacking the last couple days.

Welcome Ray.

Sounds like you are well on your way to catching a full on case of the triathlon bug. I will be very up front and tell you that trying to coach or learn swimming 'remotely' is really difficult if not impossible. If possible, I would get some personal lessons or join the local masters team if you have one. Some people become afraid b/c of the word 'masters'. In reality it is a term that means 'older' and not necessarily 'better' (although most are).

Joining a team or getting lessons would be the best possible time/$ investment if you are lacking in the swim.

I've written a bit on hydration previously and will get to nutrition soon. Please have a look at the prior posts and ask any questions on any topic that you wish.

welcome,
Jamie

Thanks Jamie.  Yes I understand about the swimming part, and I wasn't looking to this program for swimming help so we're good.    It's funny, when I called the local masters group at the university, I explained my current situation (swim experience, etc) and they told me I'm not quite up to snuff and to take basic swim lesson first..LOL.  I did take lessons last spring (Adult Swim 201), but it was thought by a 19 year old university student and she wasn't really helpful unfortunately.  I mean I got the basics out of it, but she told me my stroke looked good, when I could feel that it wasn't.

But like I said, after a year of reading and watching various videos, I feel I'm getting somewhere so I don't foresee it being a problem.

Yes I understand about the swimming part, and I wasn't looking to this program for swimming help so we're good.    It's funny, when I called the local masters group at the university, I explained my current situation (swim experience, etc) and they told me I'm not quite up to snuff and to take basic swim lesson first..LOL. 


That's too bad. Our masters team here is among the tops in the nation and we take all comers. I wouldn't give up on them if you feel like you want to do it. It's a great way to get better.

Yes, once I'm more comfortable in the water in a month or 2, I will contact them again for sure.  At the time that I called last spring, I could barely do 50 yards non-stop.  Now I can at least do 100 non-stop.   Still a long way to go, but like I said, things are getting better.

Im in the same boat with the power training. 

My thoughts on HIM/IM nutrition. Again, my opinion only.

The first thing I like to do is figure out what is offered on the course and use that. I'm not really a big fan of mixing potions to complicate my race plan. I know lots of people do this very effectively but I like to keep things simple. I never want to be in a position where I drop my X calorie bottle of brand Y elixir on the road and lose everything. I like to know that if I drop a bottle/gel then I can get a replacement right down the road at the next aid station.

Having said that, b/c I do mainly IM races I train on water/perform/powergel.

My plan for IM bike would be about 55-65g of carbohydrate (CHO)/hr. Most of this will be in the form of 2 powergels/hr. I will supplement this with random swigs of perform as I pass through the aid stations. On the run I will target about 50-60g of CHO/hr. This will come predominately from perfrom drink with about 3 gels mixed in at mile 7, 14 and 21. If I feel hungry b/c I will nibble on pieces of banana at the aid stations as well. That's it! Pretty easy for me.

Again, all of this is personal. I usually race ~152lbs and I train with my nutrition plan during EVERY workout (even just a 30' jog!). Having said that I always have a plan B and you should too. My typical plan B would be triggered by slush gut. I would slow down, switch to water and add salt (or chicken broth if available). After the feeling goes away I would slowly introduce CHO again.

For HIM I would typically stay on the same nutrition plan as an IM for the bike but I would stop taking CHO's about 30' b/4 the end of the bike. My HIM run pace does not allow for a very active stomach so I alternate between sips of water and CHO drink (Gatorade, perform etc) at every aid station. I usually carry a gel with me on the run but rarely feel good enough to take it. It usually gets tossed at mile 10ish but I like knowing it is there.

hope that helps.
Jamie

Jamie

I suspect many of the people here may already train with power, but I do not.  However, I would be interested in learning more about it.  I have to admit the cost of this device is one of the main reasons I do not have one yet.  Please note the use of the word “yet”, because I have a feeling I will eventually break down and purchase.  I guess I wouldn’t mind hearing some of your thoughts of training with power and any recommendations for the various products out on the market.

What are your training plans this weekend?

I'm due for a 75' trainer ride and some track intervals. I've never done running intervals in my life so it should be exciting. Not much need for speedwork in IM but b/c I'm dropping down to HIM only this year I figure I better get a case of the quicks!

Post your plans so we can generate some good old fashioned peer pressure accountability!

Saturday: 6 mile run w/ 3x 1600m intervals thrown in the mix, strength training, and maybe an hour on the trainer if there's time left.

Sunday: 1100 yds (sets/drills) in the pool, and a 8 mile long run.

This user's post has been ignored.

Alex. You are in. do you know Andrew Auld up there?

jamie

Edited by jamiej 2011-01-14 11:05 AM

Saturday will probably be a quick run (3-5 miles) and then a quick bike (15 miles)

Sunday is usually my long run (8-12) will see what the weather is like and might have to go inside - if so look for 5 on the tread and then a 1800-2200 swim.

JamieJ,

I have seen a lot of "is there room for one more posts,"  So here is mine. 
My name is Dan, this is my second year of triathlon.  Last year I started, like you with a HIM, did few sprints and then finished with Muskoka 70.3.  I planning on two HIM this year and am looking to improve my times quite a bit.
This weekend's plan is a 90 min bike on the trainer Saturday, then quick dip in the pool before a 12k run Sunday.

Anyway hope there is room for me here.

Thanks,

Dan

You're in Dan. Welcome. Read the past posts to catch up and let me know if there are any topics you want the group to cover or specific questions you want to ask.

Jamie

Wally,
You may want to think about Muncie 70.3 for a nice HIM prior to IMKY. I've done the race 5-6 times. It is very well done and very flat! It moved into the 70.3 series this year so the $$ have gone up. Have you ever tried to brutalize yourself at the Triple T in May? It's in your neck of the woods (Portsmouth). It's cheap but incredibly brutal. It will make IMKY look like a fun run. Sometimes the organizers (HFP racing) let you sign up for just the HIM on Sunday. Just a few ideas....
Jamie

So I have a few votes to chat a bit about training with power and power meters in general. Does anybody else have some additional questions/topics for the group?

Does anybody in the group currently use a power meter? If so, chime in on the kind and pros/cons of it.

Do most of you use a GPS watch for running? If so, what kind? Pros/cons? Are you running according to a HR zone or are you running to maintain an average pace?

Let's share a bit b/c my way is absolutely not the highway! And besides, my equipment, like myself is getting a little grey around the edges.

I'll post my info in a bit but first I need to eat!


Jamie

I don't have a power meter for the bike.  I do all my training based on HR.  My long runs I try to stay in Z2, might hit Z3 if there's a hill or something, same with the bike.  I've tried RPE for running, even when I was wearing my Garmin.  The one time, I felt like RPE 5 on my tempo run, but when I looked at the Garmin, my HR was only at 145 which is like low Z3 for me.

I use a Garmin 305 for my run & cycle training and love it.  I'd love to try training with power on the bike, but it's just not in the budget right now.  When I took an LT test at the university last spring (about 3 months after I started training from the couch), my bike LT was 231w.  With all the mountain biking and racing I did the following 9 mths, I'm sure that has gone up somewhat.  I might get another test done since they don't charge me. (they use me as a guinea pig..lol)