Other Resources My Cup of Joe » A momentous occasion Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 4
 
 
2005-09-30 10:42 AM
in reply to: #256950

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Sorry, I guess that was too cryptic. Wasn't so much about Camus as it was about Robert Kennedy. When asked why he had changed his mind about the death penalty, he replied that he had read Camus.

I've been a documentaryholic lately.



2005-09-30 10:49 AM
in reply to: #256954

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Really? That's interesting.

I just goggled robert kennedy camus death penalty, but I couldn't find any reference to it.

Hmm...

I'm against the death penalty. Here in Pennsylvania it's legal, so I do what I can to change that via the legislature. At least I have a vote on that controversial issue.
2005-09-30 10:50 AM
in reply to: #256954

User image

Expert
704
500100100
The High Plains
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Renee - 2005-09-30 11:42 AM

I've been a documentaryholic lately.

Have you seen "The Fog of War" with Robert S. McNamara? I was only recently made aware of it a few months ago. Excellent documentary.

Steve



Edited by sranney 2005-09-30 10:54 AM
2005-09-30 11:37 AM
in reply to: #256961

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

dontracy - 2005-09-30 10:49 AM

I just goggled...

Not to hijack the thread (ok...to hijack the thread), since yesterday, whenerver i try to go to google.com, i get redirected to google.fr. Anyone else have something like that happen?

2005-09-30 12:56 PM
in reply to: #256961

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Don, I goggled... er googled (Robert Kennedy Camus) and found this on amazon.com in reference to a biography about RFK (Robert Kennedy: His Life):

Thomas also gives us a portrait of a man who was changing throughout his life, evolving from a morose, sullen boy, hot-tempered and eager to fight, to a philosophical man of reflection who carried greek plays and the works of Albert Camus in his briefcase and whose sense of the injustice in the world grew stronger as he grew older. Here Thomas provides us with an RFK who was very much a work in progress, and therein, suggests Thomas, was the real tragedy of his death, that RFK was cut down before he could evolve fully into the philosophical crusader against injustice he was becoming.

and another book about him:

Maxwell Taylor Kennedy, Robert's youngest son, has drawn upon that journal, as well as material from his father's speeches, to create a unique portrait of RFK's spirit and character. In addition to his own powerful testimony to his passion for social justice, we learn that Robert Kennedy was able to learn as much about the meaning of freedom and justice from Albert Camus as he was from Thomas Jefferson or Abraham Lincoln. The concern with civil rights, pacifism, and America's role in the international arena (among other issues) that permeate Kennedy's thoughts are as relevant today as they were in the 1960s. Make Gentle the Life of This World is a stirring reminder of one of this century's strongest political visions.

2005-09-30 1:07 PM
in reply to: #257073

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
That's interesting, thanks. (probably couldn't find it 'cause I goggled it instead of googling it)

His death was a tragedy.  I remember where I was when I heard the news, just like I remember where I was when his brother died.  Although for JFK, I was in kindergarten and thought Kennedy was a kid in the third grade!

Haven't read Camus for twenty years.  Hoo boy, after today I gotta put Albert and Dante on my reading list. 

When will I have time for BT?


2005-09-30 1:23 PM
in reply to: #257091

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Here's a funny quote I found:

Of Camus's ''Resistance, Rebellion, and Death,'' Kennedy observed sagely: ''That book is really depressing. And long.''

2005-09-30 1:32 PM
in reply to: #256886

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
tech_geezer -

When he does write an opinion, he will have to give his logic and basis for the decision... But, my prediction, based on precious little in the confirmation hearings, is that he's an conservative idealogue...

TW



It's true we have to wait and see.

But what if a particular ruling of his stands up to logic and scruitiny and just so happen to fall into the conservative camp?

In other words, it's a sound judgement first, and a conservative political one second.

Isn't is possible that there may be some rulings out there that have more to do with liberal ideology than sound judgement?  If that's the case, wouldn't it be better to correct that ideological mistake?
2005-09-30 1:45 PM
in reply to: #256293

User image

Veteran
142
10025
Wichita, KS
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Did anyone read the transcripts for Justice Robert's hearings? The one thing that impressed me was him being very clear that he wasn't supposed to say anything that might have to do with law he would have to judge. And he was right there. After senators from both sides tried to get him to do that for way too many hours, they started over and tried to get him to say something because Justice O'Connor had said something during her nomination. He was pretty skillful in avoiding talking about things he wasn't supposed to without sounding critical of another Justice. Hopefully a mind that was able to run circles around senators from both sides of the aisle will be as adept at the larger part of his job.

It will be quite interesting to see what bent he ends up taking, here's hoping the law will be his guide, rather than politics of the moment.
2005-10-03 11:04 AM
in reply to: #257139

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
The POTUS has nominated Harriet Miers to the SCOTUS.

This feels less than momentous to me.
2005-10-03 11:07 AM
in reply to: #258245

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

dontracy - 2005-10-03 11:04 AM The POTUS has nominated Harriet Miers to the SCOTUS.

This feels less than momentous to me.

Yeah...it feels just plain dumb to me. If she gets confirmed, I might just go ahead and move to Canada. She has no judicial experience, no one knows anything about her, she's a cronie (can anyone say Brownie??). My gut tells me she's a puppet for W's "vision", and will get on the bench and vote how he tells her to vote. No way, no how is she getting confirmed.

This is insanity...



2005-10-03 11:16 AM
in reply to: #256293

Extreme Veteran
511
500
Minneapolis, MN
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Is it true that George W. said Harriet Miers was "a west Texas girl like myself"?

2005-10-03 11:17 AM
in reply to: #258264

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Gatsby - 2005-10-03 11:16 AMIs it true that George W. said Harriet Miers was "a west Texas girl like myself"?
I sure hope so...I'll be checking slate.com now every ten minutes to see if it's added to bushisms...
2005-10-03 11:30 AM
in reply to: #258265

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
My concern isnt' so much her politics, be it conservative or liberal. It's her qualifications.

After all, this president, and any president, has the right to nominate someone who shares the same political philosophy. Look, SCOTUS nominations are one reason why W won the last election.

But, the Miers' nomination seems very different from Roberts'. He was clearly qualified. Plus, there were plenty of other highly qualified conservatives that were available.

One question a few pundits are asking is if anyone would be confirmed this time around. Maybe Miers is a willing sacrificial lamb, with both W and she knowing that there is no way she will get confirmed.


Edited by dontracy 2005-10-03 11:30 AM
2005-10-03 11:34 AM
in reply to: #258264

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Gatsby - 2005-10-03 11:16 AM Is it true that George W. said Harriet Miers was "a west Texas girl like myself"?

Actually, that was in reference to Senator Frist's wife:

I want to thank my friend, Senator Bill Frist, for joining us today. He married a Texas girl, I want you to know.... A West Texas girl, just like me.       --Nashville, TN, May 27, 2004

But this is my favorite because it tells us so much about his overall strategy:

"I'm the master of low expectations." - aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003

My take on this underwhelming nomination is that he's throwing her out there to divert attention from him, his low ratings, discontent with Iraq, post-hurricane shock and anger. Divide and conquer, standard operating procedure. Get "the people" all in a lather as the usual suspects line up on their sides and fight this out like junkyard dogs. The Dems are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I wonder if the Republicans understand how bad this nomination is for the country in general. If Bush wins on this, we all lose. Zero-sum outcome.

If only the politicians were more loyal to their country instead of to their party...

2005-10-03 11:35 AM
in reply to: #258277

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Well, I'm a little concerned about her politics. If W truly is a "uniter, not a divider" he'd nominate a liberal. But my real concern with her is that she's just a lapdog for promoting W's policy. He says over and over that he doesn't want someone that's going to legislate from the bench, but I can tell you he sure as hell does want someone who will help overturn Roe v. Wade. And if that's not a legislating, I don't know what is.But yeah...I thought about the sacrificial lamb thing too.If he sincerely thinks this is a "good" appointment, he's truly gone off the deep end.
dontracy - 2005-10-03 11:30 AMMy concern isnt' so much her politics, be it conservative or liberal. It's her qualifications.

After all, this president, and any president, has the right to nominate someone who shares the same political philosophy. Look, SCOTUS nominations are one reason why W won the last election.

But, the Miers' nomination seems very different from Roberts'. He was clearly qualified. Plus, there were plenty of other highly qualified conservatives that were available.

One question a few pundits are asking is if anyone would be confirmed this time around. Maybe Miers is a willing sacrificial lamb, with both W and she knowing that there is no way she will get confirmed.


2005-10-03 11:42 AM
in reply to: #258286

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

She is to SCOTUS what Michael Brown was to FEMA. Unqualified.

But wait... she can learn on the job! OJT for SCOTUS. Why not?

2005-10-03 11:44 AM
in reply to: #258291

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Renee - 2005-10-03 11:42 AM

She is to SCOTUS what Michael Brown was to FEMA. Unqualified.

But wait... she can learn on the job! OJT for SCOTUS. Why not?

Exactly! Why not? It worked for W...it worked for Brownie...
2005-10-03 11:44 AM
in reply to: #258296

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Why not, indeed?! This is soooo inspiring! I'm going to apply to be an astronaut. Keep your fingers crossed for me!!!



Edited by Renee 2005-10-03 11:45 AM
2005-10-03 11:46 AM
in reply to: #258299

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Renee - 2005-10-03 11:44 AM

Why not, indeed?! This is soooo inspiring! I'm going to apply to be an astronaut. Keep your fingers crossed for me!!!

Ooh! I wanna be surgeon general. No...wait! CIA director. No...perfect! Chairman of the Joint Chiefs!
2005-10-03 11:50 AM
in reply to: #258300

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Jim, If you want a job for which you are unqualified, you're going to have to get a bit more focused. Pick one already!



Edited by Renee 2005-10-03 11:51 AM


2005-10-03 11:51 AM
in reply to: #258286

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
run4yrlif - He says over and over that he doesn't want someone that's going to legislate from the bench, but I can tell you he sure as hell does want someone who will help overturn Roe v. Wade. And if that's not a legislating, I don't know what is.


Well, I think I agree with you in a way.

I oppose Roe. I think it needs to be overturned. But, I think it needs to be overturned by the SCOTUS because it was a bad decision to begin with. It was a successful attempt to legislate from the court.

The other day, I questioned techgeezer's labeling Roberts an ideologue. I don't think Roberts is. Miers I'm not so sure of. It strikes me as an ideological nomination.

If she's confirmed, I hope she votes to repeal Roe if it ever comes up. It be better, though, for a justice to do it from a commitment to the law and the constitution rather than partisan political ideology. Ideology should stay in the realm of the democratic process.
2005-10-03 12:01 PM
in reply to: #258304

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
I see what you mean. I guess i don't want to get into a debate about Roe, but I will say that a candidate is as much an idealogue by being a strict constructionist as by being a progressive revisionist. Case in point (and I hope I don't get flamed here, but if I do, so be it) the right to bar arms was important in the 18th century because homeland defense was militia based. Ther eweren't organized police forces, much less a military of a national guard. So citizens need to be able to protect themselves.Times are different now. Joe Blow (argualbly) doesn't need an AK-47 to protect himself from invaders, but here we have a constitutional gurantee that he has the right to own that assault weapon. So arguably, one could say that that part of the constitution is out of date, and could stand to be ammended. But a construcitonist wouldn't hear of it. And since it's mainly a political issue, isn't then a construcitonist wishing to uphold that ammendmant an idealogue?
dontracy - 2005-10-03 11:51 AM
run4yrlif - He says over and over that he doesn't want someone that's going to legislate from the bench, but I can tell you he sure as hell does want someone who will help overturn Roe v. Wade. And if that's not a legislating, I don't know what is.


Well, I think I agree with you in a way.

I oppose Roe. I think it needs to be overturned. But, I think it needs to be overturned by the SCOTUS because it was a bad decision to begin with. It was a successful attempt to legislate from the court.

The other day, I questioned techgeezer's labeling Roberts an ideologue. I don't think Roberts is. Miers I'm not so sure of. It strikes me as an ideological nomination.

If she's confirmed, I hope she votes to repeal Roe if it ever comes up. It be better, though, for a justice to do it from a commitment to the law and the constitution rather than partisan political ideology. Ideology should stay in the realm of the democratic process.
2005-10-03 12:13 PM
in reply to: #258310

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion

Jim, there is more to the right to bear arms than the establishment of a militia. The Founding Fathers greatly distrusted governments and rulers; they crafted a system that was supposed to serve the people rather than rule the People. The right to bear arms was their way of ensuring that the citizens would have the means to overthrow a despotic ruler or change a government that no longer served the People.

I don't own a gun; I hate them. However, I staunchly support this particular amendment. Politicians are not to be trusted. They aren't in it for love of country; they are in it for love of power.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

2005-10-03 12:21 PM
in reply to: #258333

User image

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: A momentous occasion
Renee, I totally understand your point of view. But the way I see it, our power to overthrow a despotic ruler is through impeachment and the voting process. I don't see how a militia would somehow rise up and defeat the military that's already in place, in order to depose a sitting president.

I think it's great allegory, but an armed populace isn't going to affect change.

Renee - 2005-10-03 12:13 PM

Jim, there is more to the right to bear arms than the establishment of a militia. The Founding Fathers greatly distrusted governments and rulers; they crafted a system that was supposed to serve the people rather than rule the People. The right to bear arms was their way of ensuring that the citizens would have the means to overthrow a despotic ruler or change a government that no longer served the People.

I don't own a gun; I hate them. However, I staunchly support this particular amendment. Politicians are not to be trusted. They aren't in it for love of country; they are in it for love of power.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » A momentous occasion Rss Feed  
 
 
of 4